posted by SportsAndLady

He took a fucking taser. He was piss drunk, and there’s video of him talking to the cops before everything went down where he was clearly drunk but it was a “nice” conversation that you can clearly see there is no threat. The cops clearly didn’t need to start being aggressive with him, and he made a dumb mistake and fought back. I don’t think you deserve to die, and until people like you agree with that, nothing will change—we’ll continue to see cops murder citizens. Maybe you’re okay with that (which is just fucking weird), but the majority of people aren’t. 

I just saw the video.  As I said above, just give him a ticket and get him home.  Let him deal with the problem when he sobers up the next day.  Zero reasons to put on cuffs at that point if our laws were written to prevent this type of shit. 

posted by like_that

I just saw the video.  As I said above, just give him a ticket and get him home.  Let him deal with the problem when he sobers up the next day.  Zero reasons to put on cuffs at that point if our laws were written to prevent this type of shit. 

100% agree. 

posted by iclfan2

The taser hadn’t been expelled. He stole the taser, beat the cops, ran, and then turned to shoot the taser at the cops, so not in the back. Play stupid games...

https://twitter.com/carpedonktum/status/1271975762191691776?s=21

Per the medical examiner the bullet holes were in his back from what I read 

Let me preface this with the fact I haven't watched the recent video. IMO, somewhere is our society it has become "ok" to resist the police or you are "disrespected." The way that I was brought up was to respect law enforcement and comply with them. If you don't there's a very good chance something bad is going to happen to you. Seems like there is now some sort mindset that when a cop confronts you there needs to be some sort of confrontation.

You don't have to go to jail to be arrested, as I found out at my bachelor party. You can be sent to the hospital, after being knocked unconscious by a cop, with your arrest papers in your pocket.

So, yes, the guy could have been taken home instead of cuffed. But, the act of being cuffed isn't necessarily aggressive behaviour by the cops. It's almost like there is a mindset that you will be killed by cops if you're a black man (not true outside of isolated incidents, obviously) that turned this into a self-fulfilling prophecy by thinking he HAD to fight them and run away to save his life. A truly shitty situation all around.

posted by justincredible

It's almost like there is a mindset that you will be killed by cops if you're a black man (not true outside of isolated incidents, obviously) that turned this into a self-fulfilling prophecy by thinking he HAD to fight them and run away to save his life. A truly shitty situation all around.

Well said. This is kind of what I was trying to say in my earlier post. 

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Agreed. It would have been great if that car had been towed, the guy transported home. We may have to change some laws around DUI to make sure that people don't get out of the offense because they were sent home, but that could be done. 

Yeah, thats why I said hand him a ticket and he can have his day in court when he sobers up.   Even then I would not have a law that would allow him to be thrown in jail.  He didn't harm anyway. Suspend his license and have him choose between a hefty fine or community service (or both). 

posted by justincredible

You don't have to go to jail to be arrested, as I found out at my bachelor party. You can be sent to the hospital, after being knocked unconscious by a cop, with your arrest papers in your pocket.

So, yes, the guy could have been taken home instead of cuffed. But, the act of being cuffed isn't necessarily aggressive behaviour by the cops. It's almost like there is a mindset that you will be killed by cops if you're a black man (not true outside of isolated incidents, obviously) that turned this into a self-fulfilling prophecy by thinking he HAD to fight them and run away to save his life. A truly shitty situation all around.

It's almost like this mentality is played up by a certain entity....

https://www.businessinsider.com/san-francisco-police-will-no-longer-respond-non-criminal-calls-2020-6?amp

i think this is a potentially good start. 

Trump really needs to push for an end to the drug war. He won't, but he should.

I’m of the notion that if you aren’t an idiot, you’ll be fine. Don’t break the law? You don’t die.

That said, it’s naive to sit there and say these situations would play out the same way if you substitute a white person. They absolutely don’t, and that’s the problem I have. And the problem most AA are fighting for. It’s not excusing the actions or saying they shouldn’t be punished. But if I’m the guy taking a swing at a cop and taking his taser my guess is I get tackled about 15 seconds later and released the next morning. Then plead down to a misdemeanor take a drunk class and have it off my record within 5 years. 

posted by Laley23

I’m of the notion that if you aren’t an idiot, you’ll be fine. Don’t break the law? You don’t die.

That said, it’s naive to sit there and say these situations would play out the same way if you substitute a white person. They absolutely don’t, and that’s the problem I have. And the problem most AA are fighting for. It’s not excusing the actions or saying they shouldn’t be punished. But if I’m the guy taking a swing at a cop and taking his taser my guess is I get tackled about 15 seconds later and released the next morning. Then plead down to a misdemeanor take a drunk class and have it off my record within 5 years. 

Yeah, look at Baker Mayfield. He ran from a cop, got tackled, arrested, released, and was the #1 overall pick. 
 

posted by SportsAndLady

Some of you guys are complete fucking morons. Saying this wasn’t murder is insane. The cops should absolutely be charged with murder. When are we going to get past the era of cops shooting unarmed (lethal weapons) people to their death, and people arguing that the cops were in the right? Fucks sake. 

Has to be trolling. 

posted by SportsAndLady

You have a son. Your sons 18, goes and gets drunk at a bar and gets too drunk. Takes a swing at a cop, cop shoots him dead. I walk up to you say “your son player a stupid game, and he won a stupid prize. If he wasn’t a fuck-up, maybe he’d be alive”

Just trying to put it into perspective for you, because you’ll never agree with a side that involves a black person. 

Nice try at straw man but you failed. Taking a swing and what happened in this video are VASTLY different things. And anyone with 2 brain cells realize that. 

posted by jmog

Nice try at straw man but you failed. Taking a swing and what happened in this video are VASTLY different things. And anyone with 2 brain cells realize that. 

Lol VASTLY! 
Okay jmog

I mean, he's not wrong.

I must not be as smart as the almighty jmog and justin. Damnit I wish I had two brain cells! 

posted by SportsAndLady

I must not be as smart as the almighty jmog and justin. Damnit I wish I had two brain cells! 

posted by queencitybuckeye

Your case cite does not say in any way that life must be threatened. That is not the standard, as I stated before. The standard is life or great bodily harm. Shooting a taser at someone is an attempt to do the latter. Again, you're hanging your hat on the irrelevant fact that he was running away when what matters is that he was able to shoot at the officer while doing so and came reasonably close to a hit in spite of any level of intoxication.

Try reading again, it says it plain as day.  In one of the rulings cited “The use of deadly force to prevent the escape of all felony suspects, whatever the circumstances, is constitutionally unreasonable,” said the 6-3 decision, written by Justice Byron White. "  Which pretty much only leaves life being threatened (as perceived by a "reasonable" cop) as the only justifiable use of force.  "Great bodily harm" is a distinction without a difference, because that would normally be life threatening.

And I "hang my hat" on the taser not being lethal force or causing serious injury because the police do.  That's why they use tasers in the first place.

Non-lethal weapon, running away....shot twice in the back.  That cop is fucked, unless maybe he gets a couple of racists on his jury.

posted by gut

Try reading again, it says it plain as day.  In one of the rulings cited “The use of deadly force to prevent the escape of all felony suspects, whatever the circumstances, is constitutionally unreasonable,” said the 6-3 decision, written by Justice Byron White. "  Which pretty much only leaves life being threatened (as perceived by a "reasonable" cop) as the only justifiable use of force.  "Great bodily harm" is a distinction without a difference, because that would normally be life threatening.

And I "hang my hat" on the taser not being lethal force or causing serious injury because the police do.  That's why they use tasers in the first place.

Non-lethal weapon, running away....shot twice in the back.  That cop is fucked, unless maybe he gets a couple of racists on his jury.

When a cop shoots and kills a black person, theres a portion of the population that will never ever admit the cop did anything wrong (“play stupid games win stupid prizes duurrrrrr”). Unfortunately we have a few of those on this site. 

posted by Laley23

That said, it’s naive to sit there and say these situations would play out the same way if you substitute a white person. They absolutely don’t, and that’s the problem I have. And the problem most AA are fighting for.

That's a false narrative.  The stats are far from perfect, but FBI statistics show an approximately equal number of unarmed whites, blacks and hispanics killed by cops each year.  Pretty much in-line with the percentage of arrests.  You can talk about overpolicing and other socioeconomic factors, but cops aren't targeting or hunting blacks. 

Murders charged as hate crimes total about 15 per year.  Unless you think racists join the police force to do it legally, this false narrative needs to stop because, as Justin mentioned, it causes some people to think they need to fight for their life when confronted by police.

And wrongful death by police is still very rare.  Estimates I've seen are about 50-100 people a year.  Maybe it's actually a few hundred, but that's out of 10M arrests and tens of millions more interactions every year.

Twice as many white people are killed by police each year as blacks.  Studies have shown cops are LESS likely to shoot black suspects, probably because of all the attention in recent years.

Also, this DOES happen to white people, the media just doesn't generally care to report it.  A few years ago, same thing happened to George Floyd happened to a white guy in Dallas.  And I remember a white woman who called cops about a domestic dispute at her neighbors get shot and killed in her pajamas.  I think that story got a byline for a few hours during CNN's non-stop coverage of Michael Brown.

I think the last one you mentioned was Minneapolis as well, right?

And the one in Dallas was pretty rough to watch as the cops joked and laughed as the guy begged them to stop.

posted by justincredible

I think the last one you mentioned was Minneapolis as well, right?

And the one in Dallas was pretty rough to watch as the cops joked and laughed as the guy begged them to stop.

I think that's right.  Minneapolis probably should disband the police force.  How do you end-up shooting an unarmed white woman in her pajamas?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/30/us/minneapolis-police-noor-verdict.html

Indeed it was.

posted by gutAnd I "hang my hat" on the taser not being lethal force or causing serious injury because the police do.  That's why they use tasers in the first place.

And you're wrong. They do consider it serious, right along side the other less than lethal weapons they have at their disposal.

posted by SportsAndLady

When a cop shoots and kills a black person, theres a portion of the population that will never ever admit the cop did anything wrong (“play stupid games win stupid prizes duurrrrrr”). Unfortunately we have a few of those on this site. 

What a great time we live in, when someone who disagrees with you can be called a racist behind the safety of a screen. Makes your life as a coward much easier.