posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

 According to the AMA, >96% of physicians (MDs) are vaccinated while <50% of nurses are.  

I hadn't seen the stat on doctors, but that's really bizarre for nurses to be BELOW the national average.

But my guess is most of the nurses who haven't taken the shot already had Covid.  It does tell us that medical practitioners don't view an unnecessary vaccine as "harmless".

posted by Fletch

Not sure who you are talking about or what a "meet" is but surely talking in person is always better then on this shithole.

As for the conversation going over my head.....no not really.  I can list 10 different narratives that have been pushed on us to keep us in the grips of the government that has long since been either debunked or have ran its course......when they do, the powers that be just move the goalpost.

You do remember "flatten the curve" dont you?  It was the first justification to tear us down to their power.

Lol you’ll literally post something as Spock, someone argues with you, and you argue with them back as Spock while logged into your Fletch account. 

I don’t know why you’re arguing with me. I’m just telling you that hospitals in the area - which I would know a lot more about than you - are in fact full. I’m also the guy walking around Wal Mart without a mask so it’s not like I’m trying to control anyone. Two months ago they were fine. But when you have to turn 15-20% of your capacity into covid rooms that always remain full, that creates problems. But tell me more about the government controlling you. Weren’t you bragging about being the only one walking around IKEA months ago without a mask? What do you care. No one tells you what to do. 

posted by gut

I hadn't seen the stat on doctors, but that's really bizarre for nurses to be BELOW the national average.

But my guess is most of the nurses who haven't taken the shot already had Covid.  It does tell us that medical practitioners don't view an unnecessary vaccine as "harmless".

I'll give the physicians' example greater weight.  

posted by friendfromlowry

Lol you’ll literally post something as Spock, someone argues with you, and you argue with them back as Spock while logged into your Fletch account. 

I don’t know why you’re arguing with me. I’m just telling you that hospitals in the area - which I would know a lot more about than you - are in fact full. I’m also the guy walking around Wal Mart without a mask so it’s not like I’m trying to control anyone. Two months ago they were fine. But when you have to turn 15-20% of your capacity into covid rooms that always remain full, that creates problems. But tell me more about the government controlling you. Weren’t you bragging about being the only one walking around IKEA months ago without a mask? What do you care. No one tells you what to do. 

Herein lies the problem with our present time:

You can't have varying opinions of things, you've got to be across the board with one extreme of the spectrum or the other.  For example, you can't have the opinion that masks and mandates are ridiculous while also acknowledging that COVID cases are rising dramatically and hospitals are being taxed.  If you think masks are stupid, you're expected to go all on of Deep State/media storylines being directed by "them" that are plotting our total control.  It's the worst kind of groupthink.  I think all of us are susceptible to it, but most check themselves and make up their own minds without the "party line" script.  Unfortunately the vocal minority controls the story.  Liked Trump's position on immigration?  Fine, you better also go all in on his steel tariffs and nicknames for people he doesn't like no matter what?  Like Biden's tax proposals?  Great, you better support The Squad and BLM no matter how ridiculous their demands.  

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Herein lies the problem with our present time 

The world was a better place when you couldn't accidentally run into abject stupidity on an hourly basis.

Stupid people want desperately to not be stupid.  That's why they're so vocal everywhere - they crave validation that they're not an idiot.  I'd guess that's the primary motivation of, oh, 90% of activists.

posted by friendfromlowry

 I’m just telling you that hospitals in the area - which I would know a lot more about than you - are in fact full.

To be fair, that is another headline lacking context.  A hospital might have 10 Covid beds that are "filling up", but with a capacity to have 80 beds or more. 

It's a fearmongering headline that wrongly implies the hospitals are in danger of being overrun.  Classic example of pandemic porn.  And it's fueling distrust of science and the media.  Distrust that isn't unwarranted.

People are starting to tune-out the doomsday media.  And the response has been to double-down.  I suppose if you lose half your audience, but get the other half to watch twice as much, it's a wash....

Lol they really Covid shamed Obama into not having his 700 person Birthday party.

posted by friendfromlowry

Lol you’ll literally post something as Spock, someone argues with you, and you argue with them back as Spock while logged into your Fletch account. 

I don’t know why you’re arguing with me. I’m just telling you that hospitals in the area - which I would know a lot more about than you - are in fact full. I’m also the guy walking around Wal Mart without a mask so it’s not like I’m trying to control anyone. Two months ago they were fine. But when you have to turn 15-20% of your capacity into covid rooms that always remain full, that creates problems. But tell me more about the government controlling you. Weren’t you bragging about being the only one walking around IKEA months ago without a mask? What do you care. No one tells you what to do. 

Not sure what your obsession is with knowing who I am, maybe I am spocks friend or brother just helping his argument.  YOU DONT KNOW ME.

Now as for the hospital thing, you cant deny that the media is playing it up as if its as bad as ever when its not.  There are dozens of hospitals in the Miami Valley and WHIO is reporting a grand total of 93 people in the hospital for Covid.  

posted by gut

To be fair, that is another headline lacking context.  A hospital might have 10 Covid beds that are "filling up", but with a capacity to have 80 beds or more. 

It's a fearmongering headline that wrongly implies the hospitals are in danger of being overrun.  Classic example of pandemic porn.  And it's fueling distrust of science and the media.  Distrust that isn't unwarranted.

People are starting to tune-out the doomsday media.  And the response has been to double-down.  I suppose if you lose half your audience, but get the other half to watch twice as much, it's a wash....

No arguments here. I would encourage the critical thinking and not taking it at face value.

But here’s the thing: there’s absolutely no hospital that has that capacity ready to go. QO acts like it’s not a capacity problem, it’s a staffing problem. They’re one in the same. 80 beds would require at least 20 more nurses. If my network is offering $15K sign on bonuses, do you think there’s 20 nurses sitting around with nothing to do? And that’s being generous. The really sick ICU patients require a nurse per 1-2 patients. The other network in the region is offering an extra $100/hour to any nurse willing to come work tonight. Not to mention the nursing assistants, respiratory therapists, CNP/PA, and other staff that’s require but also really short. 

I don’t know for fact what it’s like across the country, but a quick glance at my social media suggests my experience isn’t unique. 

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

An interesting statistic I read this morning.  According to the AMA, >96% of physicians (MDs) are vaccinated while <50% of nurses are.  

Not that interesting. Doctors are going to be smarter than nurses lol. 

posted by Fletch

Not sure what your obsession is with knowing who I am, maybe I am spocks friend or brother just helping his argument.  YOU DONT KNOW ME.

Now as for the hospital thing, you cant deny that the media is playing it up as if its as bad as ever when its not.  There are dozens of hospitals in the Miami Valley and WHIO is reporting a grand total of 93 people in the hospital for Covid.  

Dozens??? UVMC, Kettering, MVH, Soin, Grandview, Sycamore, Atrium, MVHS, Springfield. That’s the list man. Don’t confuse the stand-alone ERs or smaller hospitals for taking Covid inpatients because they ship that shit out.  A couple of those may even not, I was being generous. And not all of them have ICU capabilities. Also, see my post to gut about the staffing component and try to think critically about it all.

Shut the fuck up already. I don’t know how many times you need to be wrong about this. 

posted by friendfromlowry

No arguments here. I would encourage the critical thinking and not taking it at face value.

But here’s the thing: there’s absolutely no hospital that has that capacity ready to go. QO acts like it’s not a capacity problem, it’s a staffing problem. They’re one in the same. 80 beds would require at least 20 more nurses. If my network is offering $15K sign on bonuses, do you think there’s 20 nurses sitting around with nothing to do? And that’s being generous. The really sick ICU patients require a nurse per 1-2 patients. The other network in the region is offering an extra $100/hour to any nurse willing to come work tonight. Not to mention the nursing assistants, respiratory therapists, CNP/PA, and other staff that’s require but also really short. 

I don’t know for fact what it’s like across the country, but a quick glance at my social media suggests my experience isn’t unique. 

You make a fair point. However physical capacity and staffing are not one in the same.  When the media headlines says ABC hospital is stretched to capacity the reader believes that there is not one empty bed in the building and covid patients are going to be dying on the sidewalk, and obviously that is not the case, nor has been.  Of course no hospital or any business (except government) wants to have an extra 20 employees lingering around with nothing to do; that is highly inefficient.  But to claim "we are at capacity" implies we have no more beds, when in fact beds are available, but a staff shortage exists.  Ergo, bring in more staff and the excess capacity can be utilized. 

posted by Fletch

Not sure what your obsession is with knowing who I am, maybe I am spocks friend or brother just helping his argument.  YOU DONT KNOW ME.

Now as for the hospital thing, you cant deny that the media is playing it up as if its as bad as ever when its not.  There are dozens of hospitals in the Miami Valley and WHIO is reporting a grand total of 93 people in the hospital for Covid.  

Regardless of whether you're Spock or not, you have failed in this argument.  Move on to something else.  Isn't there a story about illegal immigrants, wefare queens or CRT you can get fired up about?  Go back and look more carefully through Breitbart.  

posted by QuakerOats

You make a fair point. However physical capacity and staffing are not one in the same.  When the media headlines says ABC hospital is stretched to capacity the reader believes that there is not one empty bed in the building and covid patients are going to be dying on the sidewalk, and obviously that is not the case, nor has been.  Of course no hospital or any business (except government) wants to have an extra 20 employees lingering around with nothing to do; that is highly inefficient.  But to claim "we are at capacity" implies we have no more beds, when in fact beds are available, but a staff shortage exists.  Ergo, bring in more staff and the excess capacity can be utilized. 

Sounds like a dumbass reader problem then. I don’t think the media is always bad and lying when they say hospitals are at capacity. I’m just letting you know sometimes they really are. And more staff would be nice but they aren’t available, thus the capacity is what it is. The empty beds - IF they’re there - are useless without the staff. 

posted by Fletch

Not sure what your obsession is with knowing who I am, maybe I am spocks friend or brother just helping his argument.  YOU DONT KNOW ME.

Now as for the hospital thing, you cant deny that the media is playing it up as if its as bad as ever when its not.  There are dozens of hospitals in the Miami Valley and WHIO is reporting a grand total of 93 people in the hospital for Covid.  

Right now, I'm trying to decide which possibility is more hilariously sad.

1. CC/Spock is so desperate for anything that even resembles validation for his moronic opinions that he created a separate account on a small message board that never gets new posters to regularly post the exact same moronic opinions. He pretends it's someone else even though the "new guy" has the same questionable grasp of the English language, grammar, punctuation, logic and actual knowledge of what he's trying to talk about.

2. CC/Spock has an actual "friend or brother" who decided to join the site to parrot his opinions. With said "friend/brother" also having the exact same questionable grasp of the English language, grammar, etc., essentially making it look like he's the same idiot, as opposed to being a completely different idiot.

I’ll point out for transparency, my whole family has Covid. Both kids go to daycare, 3.5 and almost 2. I woke up Sunday with no taste or smell. Wife is only tired. She went to Walgreens for rapid test with 3.5 year old and both tested positive. Probly got it from the almost 2 year old (tested positive for RSV) Luckily symptoms are weak, and I would still never want them to wear masks. Both adults vaccinated. Just gonna drink now

posted by brutus161
Yes, that's exactly what I am saying. It is not a HIPAA violation for any person (or corporation) to ask any other persona any question...ever. Revealing privileged information could possibly be a HIPAA violation (if said organization fell under HIPAA laws), but simply asking is not.  

Simply asking, but what about forcing the person to answer your question with the threat of job loss if you don’t answer?

posted by jmog

Simply asking, but what about forcing the person to answer your question with the threat of job loss if you don’t answer?

Unvaccinated is not a protected class. 

posted by brutus161

Unvaccinated is not a protected class. 

Religious exemptions for vaccines happen all the times for schools and I assume work places as well.

I assume religions are protected  

posted by jmog

Religious exemptions for vaccines happen all the times for schools and I assume work places as well.

I assume religions are protected  

Why don't you refuse to tell your employer and then report back to us how it goes. 

posted by jmog

Religious exemptions for vaccines happen all the times for schools and I assume work places as well.

I assume religions are protected  

Religious accommodations are absolutely a thing. However, employers can ask for the employee to provide an explanation of their sincerely held religious belief. Employers can also ask for appropriate documentation from the employee's religious leader. 

None of what I said above, changes the fact that unvaccinated is not a protected class. Simply not wanting to get the vaccine does not preclude you from following your employer's policies and procedures. I am completely on board with you not getting the vaccine if you don't want it, however, a person must be ready to face the consequence for that decision. 

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Why don't you refuse to tell your employer and then report back to us how it goes. 

That brings up an interesting question - would that be a termination, or a voluntary quit?  Because the latter means no unemployment benefits.

And I wonder how much, if any, severance a company would give firing someone who refused to get vaccinated.

The real fun starts when your rainmaker refuses to get vaccinated!

Most likely involuntary termination due to failing to follow company policy. 

posted by brutus161

Most likely involuntary termination due to failing to follow company policy. 

No idea.  I'm sure we'll see some lawsuits.

I wonder if companies won't just place people on unpaid leave until they're vaccinated, or policy changes.

Thing is, it wouldn't surprise me even at companies with high compliance that 5-10% of workers might refuse vaccination.  You really can't fire that many people.  Would you really fire your VP of Sales?  Are you going to fire the pregnant woman?

You just know companies are going to step in it trying to implement some poorly thought out woke fascist policy.  JMOG works for a huge company, and just look at that mental diarrhea they sent to all their employees.  Then you don't follow thru or escalate, and suddenly you have a bunch of Karens raising holy hell about unvaccinated co-workers.

I used to work for a company that forbade smoking. You could be tested for it like drugs. If you came up positive, you were fired. A fired employee sued and it held up in court. This isn't the same thing, but it seems relevant.