posted by gut

Is there actual proof of this, or is it the usual "unnamed sources"?  Or is it a Democratic governor angling for a VP nomination?  Like, for instance, I know this story started floating around when Cuomo asked for 50,000 respirators (more than our strategic reserves, I believe) well ahead of actually needing them.  And Trump's response was he doesn't need them right now, and "I don't think he'll need nearly that many".  Which, looks now to be a 100% factual statement.  But it seemed to me like that Cuomo story was all that was offered up as "proof" (after much washing and spinning) of Trump playing politics with people's lives

I honestly don't know, just that I've come to expect about 1/3 of the negative stories on Trump - and usually the worst ones - actually are fake news.  Maybe this isn't one of those instances, but I don't understand why the media continues to wreck their own credibility making up shit to attack a guy who has more than enough stuff to attack legitimately.  It's almost as if the media knows the fake news is going to help ensure 4 more years of record ratings.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/27/coronavirus-trump-told-pence-not-to-call-washington-michigan-governors.html

posted by Rotinaj

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/27/coronavirus-trump-told-pence-not-to-call-washington-michigan-governors.html

^^^^^^^^^^^^Fake news

And I get blasted for the Breitbart links??

posted by Spock

^^^^^^^^^^^^Fake news

And I get blasted for the Breitbart links??

 

CNBC quoted Trump directly. You're saying that they doctored the video of him speaking?

posted by Spock

^^^^^^^^^^^^Fake news

And I get blasted for the Breitbart links??

 

From the President's own fucking mouth:

“If they don’t treat you right, I don’t call." 

https://twitter.com/cspan/status/1243668061795860481

Fake news my ass. 

Lol CC

I know the guy is who he is. He's not going to change his ways at his age. But it would be nice during this crisis if he could take a rest from the "fake news", "they aren't showing me enough appreciation", "that was a nasty question", "my ratings are through the roof" stuff and just lead. We need a confident leader who sticks to the facts and doesn't put his Petty jealousies in front of the country's interests.  People will rally around a guy who stays above this and provides direction.  Be bigger than the criticism and people will support. Not everyone, but that's always the case. But even those diametrically opposed to Trump will appreciate mature leadership during this time. There is just no way to defend his antics during a national emergency. 

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

I know the guy is who he is. He's not going to change his ways at his age. But it would be nice during this crisis if he could take a rest from the "fake news", "they aren't showing me enough appreciation", "that was a nasty question", "my ratings are through the roof" stuff and just lead. We need a confident leader who sticks to the facts and doesn't put his Petty jealousies in front of the country's interests.  People will rally around a guy who stays above this and provides direction.  Be bigger than the criticism and people will support. Not everyone, but that's always the case. But even those diametrically opposed to Trump will appreciate mature leadership during this time. There is just no way to defend his antics during a national emergency. 

After watching him this last month, I boil all that down to this: Trump is just an asshole. 

Man, CC's had a bad day or so with his made-up facts just not working on anyone!

posted by ptown_trojans_1

After watching him this last month, I boil all that down to this: Trump is just an asshole. 

arrogant as well

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

I know the guy is who he is. He's not going to change his ways at his age. But it would be nice during this crisis if he could take a rest from the "fake news", "they aren't showing me enough appreciation", "that was a nasty question", "my ratings are through the roof" stuff and just lead.

It would be nice if he would just shut up, but the reality is the POTUS has long been little more than a figurehead.  Trump may be difficult, but there's really not evidence that the people who make actual decisions aren't getting their way.

Trump gives speeches, raises money, and rubber stamps what people tell him we should do....just like his recent predecessor.  Once in a great while, people come to him with a shit sandwich and are unable to recommend the best of 3 options.  People who didn't believe that with Obama surely must believe it now.  Because if you strip away the twitter and personal attacks and look solely at accomplishments/record, by any objective measure Trump hasn't been any worse than the last two.  He's lazy, impetuous and people hate him...but still the job gets done.

posted by gut

It would be nice if he would just shut up, but the reality is the POTUS has long been little more than a figurehead.  Trump may be difficult, but there's really not evidence that the people who make actual decisions aren't getting their way.

Trump gives speeches, raises money, and rubber stamps what people tell him we should do....just like his recent predecessor.  Once in a great while, people come to him with a shit sandwich and are unable to recommend the best of 3 options.  People who didn't believe that with Obama surely must believe it now.  Because if you strip away the twitter and personal attacks and look solely at accomplishments/record, by any objective measure Trump hasn't been any worse than the last two.  He's lazy, impetuous and people hate him...but still the job gets done.

I wasn't evaluating his entire term in office. It's his behavior during this crisis. He's doing some really good things and he has strong people in some roles.  So it'd be ideal if he'd quit acting like a petulant child. He crushes any advances he makes. 

I strongly disagree that the president is a figurehead. 

All that matters is results, and we are doing better than projected all the way around.  This is why Trump has ardent supporters; they are people that care about results, not political bullshit and ‘talk only’. 

Take care.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

I strongly disagree that the president is a figurehead. 

That's what I used to believe.  I think he's only not a figurehead in extreme circumstances (like Bush after 9/11, Kennedy in the Cuban Missile Crisis).  Otherwise, he's just a public face trying to sell policy and actions vetted and determined by thousands of career staffers.  Trump was the guy who wasn't going to listen to anyone, was going to destroy democracy, and possibly the world.  I'm not sure how we reconcile that unless we acknowledge the POTUS doesn't have nearly the power most people believe he has.  The electorate would be up in arms if they didn't have one specific person to hold accountable.  Our votes don't change anything because we don't elect the career staffers who actually drive decision making.

Trade deals - easiest things to do, still require approval of Congress.

Foreign diplomacy - career staffers determine if it's a bad deal or if we can do better.  Obama's Iran and Cuba deals were in the last two years of his term when he was looking for a legacy, and Trump wiped out both in his first 18 months.  Remember when Obama was going to close Gitmo and end all those wars?  I don't think he was the first POTUS to say "it's different when you're actually sitting in the chair", which is a roundabout way of saying decisions are owned by the real experts.

Pretty much everything else is to sign whatever Congress sends him.  He can veto, but it's rarely used.

Executive Orders - yes, these can matter.  But Congress can reverse it legislatively if they are so inclined.  Or the courts can block, as we've seen several times with Trump.  Or your successor can undo it, as Trump did many of Obamas.

I'll grant you judges, still subject to Congressional approval but almost always approved.  Anything else he might actually own is a short-term impact at best (or worst).

But if you were to look at a CEO of a Fortune 50, they might have 100k people (compared to 2-3M in the federal govt) and you can't really measure them for years.  Because CEO's are mainly leading the company toward a goal 5 years or more away.  Just think about that, and then try to imagine Trump actual leading the coronavirus response - doesn't happen, too slow and bureacratic.

By the way, this reminds me of a famous line when the US was losing it's collective shit over the 2000 election:

I think it was the Australian PM [paraphrasing]: "I don't know what all the fuss is about...it's not like they're voting on who is going to replace Greenspan"

posted by gut

That's what I used to believe.  I think he's only not a figurehead in extreme circumstances (like Bush after 9/11, Kennedy in the Cuban Missile Crisis).  Otherwise, he's just a public face trying to sell policy and actions vetted and determined by thousands of career staffers.  Trump was the guy who wasn't going to listen to anyone, was going to destroy democracy, and possibly the world.  I'm not sure how we reconcile that unless we acknowledge the POTUS doesn't have nearly the power most people believe he has.  The electorate would be up in arms if they didn't have one specific person to hold accountable.  Our votes don't change anything because we don't elect the career staffers who actually drive decision making.

Trade deals - easiest things to do, still require approval of Congress.

Foreign diplomacy - career staffers determine if it's a bad deal or if we can do better.  Obama's Iran and Cuba deals were in the last two years of his term when he was looking for a legacy, and Trump wiped out both in his first 18 months.  Remember when Obama was going to close Gitmo and end all those wars?  I don't think he was the first POTUS to say "it's different when you're actually sitting in the chair", which is a roundabout way of saying decisions are owned by the real experts.

Pretty much everything else is to sign whatever Congress sends him.  He can veto, but it's rarely used.

Executive Orders - yes, these can matter.  But Congress can reverse it legislatively if they are so inclined.  Or the courts can block, as we've seen several times with Trump.  Or your successor can undo it, as Trump did many of Obamas.

 

I'll grant you judges, still subject to Congressional approval but almost always approved.  Anything else he might actually own is a short-term impact at best (or worst).

But if you were to look at a CEO of a Fortune 50, they might have 100k people (compared to 2-3M in the federal govt) and you can't really measure them for years.  Because CEO's are mainly leading the company toward a goal 5 years or more away.  Just think about that, and then try to imagine Trump actual leading the coronavirus response - doesn't happen, too slow and bureacratic.

The real power in government lies in the federal agencies who have been granted ENORMOUS power from congress with near limitless rulemaking ability and ENFORCEMENT.  These agencies are far more powerful, in the real world, than any congress or president.  Accordingly, it makes a MASSIVE amount of difference who the president is because he appoints the agency heads and directs the policies and rules and enforcement of the morass of regulations they put out.  The difference in regulation and frankly attitude, of these agencies between obama and Trump is nearly immeasurable.  And on the ground, it means night vs day.

posted by QuakerOats

All that matters is results, and we are doing better than projected all the way around.  This is why Trump has ardent supporters; they are people that care about results, not political bullshit and ‘talk only’. 

 

Take care.

 

Not true at all even if his results were all perfect. My comment was specifically about this crisis anyway. I'm rooting for the guy and am glad at some of the things he's done. But bitching about the WSJ (fake news) and bragging about tv ratings is not leadership. He's missing a great opportunity to lead beyond the MAGA crowd.  I know you personally would never be critical of him, but other reasonable Trump voters may. 

posted by Spock

^^^^^^^^^^^^Fake news

And I get blasted for the Breitbart links??

Okay, I lol'd hard at this.
 

posted by gut

By the way, this reminds me of a famous line when the US was losing it's collective shit over the 2000 election:

I think it was the Australian PM [paraphrasing]: "I don't know what all the fuss is about...it's not like they're voting on who is going to replace Greenspan"

Damn, that's a pretty poignant way to say it.

Between the stupid questions he gets and stupid answers he gives I don’t get how anyone can sit and watch these daily press conferences. 10 minutes is about all I can handle daily. Such foolishness from him and the media. 

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Not true at all even if his results were all perfect. My comment was specifically about this crisis anyway. I'm rooting for the guy and am glad at some of the things he's done. But bitching about the WSJ (fake news) and bragging about tv ratings is not leadership. He's missing a great opportunity to lead beyond the MAGA crowd.  I know you personally would never be critical of him, but other reasonable Trump voters may. 

I understand your point.  He could also eliminate half his tweets; might well serve him better, but perhaps not given the personal hatred held by so many.  He could cure covid19 tomorrow, and half the people would say he is two weeks too late.  We know how he is; how he operates.  But we only care about results.

You know things are improving because the politicians and media are going back to their partisan sniping.  Everyone goes ape shit when Trump refuses - correctly - to do the job of the state/local officials ordering shutdowns.  Then Trump says he's going to order people to open things back up.  And they, justifiably actually, go ape shit over him not being a dictator.  Yes, this power is actually reserved for the state/local govts, like it should be!  Why do they have to reflexively oppose Trump on everything, even when he's right?  Just ignore what he's right on and stop making yourself an equal clown.

Also, while Trump's pressers have been campaign events for a while, which isn't uncommon except he's doing it every day since he doesn't let his Press Sec do it.  But he shouldn't be pre-empting the Task Force briefings with his presser.

posted by QuakerOats

 

 

I understand your point.  He could also eliminate half his tweets; might well serve him better, but perhaps not given the personal hatred held by so many.  He could cure covid19 tomorrow, and half the people would say he is two weeks too late.  We know how he is; how he operates.  But we only care about results.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/04/16/trumps-chinatown-tweet-pelosis-visit-draws-criticism-online/5149296002/

Here's a good example of why you should not see the animosity towards him as "unfair".  He has been posting stupid crap like this since long before he became a politician. He insults people in a 10X more personal way than is done to him. That's what defensive bullies do. I do not like Nancy Pelosi at all. But a post like this by him serves no other purpose than to enrage the segment of his supporter who cannot differentiate between San Francisco's Chinatown and the nation of China.  And yes, Pelosi got that wrong. But it happened at the same time Trump assured us that COVID was totally under control and would disappear "like a miracle". 

What makes Trump supporters like you insufferable is your idol worship and unwillingness to admit the major faults and mistakes of the guy. 

It’s funny to watch them do the same thing as antifa and it doesn’t get brought up by QO

posted by geeblock

It’s funny to watch them do the same thing as antifa and it doesn’t get brought up by QO

Aside from everything is closed and everyone else is at home, the two are like totally the same.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/04/16/trumps-chinatown-tweet-pelosis-visit-draws-criticism-online/5149296002/

Here's a good example of why you should not see the animosity towards him as "unfair".  He has been posting stupid crap like this since long before he became a politician. He insults people in a 10X more personal way than is done to him. That's what defensive bullies do. I do not like Nancy Pelosi at all. But a post like this by him serves no other purpose than to enrage the segment of his supporter who cannot differentiate between San Francisco's Chinatown and the nation of China.  And yes, Pelosi got that wrong. But it happened at the same time Trump assured us that COVID was totally under control and would disappear "like a miracle". 

 

What makes Trump supporters like you insufferable is your idol worship and unwillingness to admit the major faults and mistakes of the guy. 

This is what got him elected though and his base loves the non apologetic tone.  The conservatives who don't love it, put up with it, because the dems really have done nothing to entice them to cross over to vote for them. It's not going to change at this point, and it's hilarious people still haven't figured this out for 4 years. 

I agree, simply posting the video with no commentary or a short non Trumpian caption like "Nancy had quite the different tune a few weeks ago" would have gone a long way.

posted by gut

You know things are improving because the politicians and media are going back to their partisan sniping.  Everyone goes ape shit when Trump refuses - correctly - to do the job of the state/local officials ordering shutdowns.  Then Trump says he's going to order people to open things back up.  And they, justifiably actually, go ape shit over him not being a dictator.  Yes, this power is actually reserved for the state/local govts, like it should be!  Why do they have to reflexively oppose Trump on everything, even when he's right?  Just ignore what he's right on and stop making yourself an equal clown.

Also, while Trump's pressers have been campaign events for a while, which isn't uncommon except he's doing it every day since he doesn't let his Press Sec do it.  But he shouldn't be pre-empting the Task Force briefings with his presser.

Pretty remarkable Trump has inadvertently made the dems embrace federalism. 

posted by gut

Aside from everything is closed and everyone else is at home, the two are like totally the same.

In Gblock's defense he thinks a bunch of 16 year olds wearing MAGA hats is the same thing as ANTIFA as well.