posted by ptown_trojans_1

Yes. I know, I was going for the Trump language that everything he does is the best in the history of the country. I mean if you told Trump that Obama added more debt, he might want to increase the debt just to beat Obama and say I did it better.

LOL

We're looking at $2T+, and maybe even double that depending on how long this goes, and it illustrates the folly of deficit spending.  And, yes, both parties will continue to use that as a political talking point while doing the opposite when they are in control.  But at least initially you can't address it because raising taxes is a short-run headwind which you can't do after a recession.

I would transfer most of this burden to the "0-return" class.  In other words, defer - not cancel - rent and mortgage payments (and car leases).  That mostly just yields a 0% return on those real estate assets at a time everything other class is getting pummeled.  And, indirectly, it's a tax increase on the wealthy (though plenty of pension funds are in real estate).  Same thing with business loans and debt - I'd have to think and do some research, but if you don't do this then you're inviting something worse than the 2008 liquidity crisis.  The underlying fundamentals are still healthy, and you need to preserve that because the defaults that otherwise results are mostly artificial because businesses can't operate.

Then the next relief I offer is your basic utilities are free, up to 120% of your average usage.  I'll bail out the utilities as needed.  I suspend healthcare payments, deductibles and copays - we'll bail out healthcare insurance as needed.  Then I provide money to every family for food. 

I think that all about covers everyone's basic needs.  Look at business/industry bailouts as needed in the aftermath.  I think most industries (think auto, retail, etc) bounce back because of pent-up demand, but airline/hotel/restaurant are going to need help.

posted by Spock

Unlike the dems who gave ALL the money from TARP to big business and banks (who just sat on it).  Recession lasted way to long.  Trump is wanting to give the money right to the people.  Completely different outcome will likely occur.

Careful.  Bush 2's stimulus wasn't exactly anti-corporate welfare.
 

posted by jmog

No he hasn't, he has increased it bigly.

YUUUUUUUUUUGELY.
 

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Regardless of the nonsense Trump said early on, he now appears to be in touch with reality on this. I appreciate his frequent briefings and communicating the message that all resources are being deployed. He's doing the the right things and I'm appreciative. 

Seriously, credit where it's due.  Someone asked me to grade his job on handling this yesterday, and to that point, I gave him a C.  Slow start, and his blowhard nature made him sound like an idiot early on, but as things progressed, he's leaned more heavily on the experts.  He's come up with solutions which, for better or worse, seem to be instilling confidence from the citizens.  He's treating the matter with an appropriate level of sobriety.  I don't know that I think the stimulus will do much, so I'm not huge on that in theory or in function, but overall, he's acting like head of state finally.

If he keeps this up, I'll likely have to raise my grade on it as well.  He's not just not screwing it up.  He's actually doing well, by all indication.

posted by O-Trap

If he keeps this up, I'll likely have to raise my grade on it as well.  He's not just not screwing it up.  He's actually doing well, by all indication

Once again, if the POTUS has to troubleshoot and come up with ideas, then we are woefully unprepared and royally fucked.

He's to lead/coordinate communication, which he's gotten better at, and then to a much lesser extent he has to make the call among options presented by advisers.  I don't think the latter is as hard as it's made out to be.  In a situation like this, he has basically a blank check and the resources of the armed forces and national guard.  For example, early on banning travel from China drew criticism - would seem like it was a tough call but probably not if he listened to what his advisers were saying.

posted by gut

Once again, if the POTUS has to troubleshoot and come up with ideas, then we are woefully unprepared and royally fucked.

He's to lead/coordinate communication, which he's gotten better at, and then to a much lesser extent he has to make the call among options presented by advisers.  I don't think the latter is as hard as it's made out to be.  In a situation like this, he has basically a blank check and the resources of the armed forces and national guard.  For example, early on banning travel from China drew criticism - would seem like it was a tough call but probably not if he listened to what his advisers were saying.

That action I actually don't love.  Not because it might not be effective if done fully, but because there were so many people who WERE able to travel from China (US citizens and residents) that it probably rendered the ban itself largely ineffective, since the virus' transmission doesn't seem to be affected by nationality.  Whatever percentage of people who would have otherwise entered the country through China, the citizenship or residency of the fraction that was actually able to come is functionally irrelevant from an epidemic perspective.

But like I said, he's gotten notably better with how he's handling it now.

We need a war to get us out of this

!!!

posted by Spock

We need a war to get us out of this

!!!

Should we select a couple of Middle Eastern countries that are "crying out" for freedom?

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Should we select a couple of Middle Eastern countries that are "crying out" for freedom?

Nah, nuke China for fucking this up in the first place

posted by Spock

We need a war to get us out of this

!!!

That is the most warhawk Republican statement I've ever read.

posted by gut

LOL

We're looking at $2T+, and maybe even double that depending on how long this goes, and it illustrates the folly of deficit spending.  And, yes, both parties will continue to use that as a political talking point while doing the opposite when they are in control.  But at least initially you can't address it because raising taxes is a short-run headwind which you can't do after a recession.

I would transfer most of this burden to the "0-return" class.  In other words, defer - not cancel - rent and mortgage payments (and car leases).  That mostly just yields a 0% return on those real estate assets at a time everything other class is getting pummeled.  And, indirectly, it's a tax increase on the wealthy (though plenty of pension funds are in real estate).  Same thing with business loans and debt - I'd have to think and do some research, but if you don't do this then you're inviting something worse than the 2008 liquidity crisis.  The underlying fundamentals are still healthy, and you need to preserve that because the defaults that otherwise results are mostly artificial because businesses can't operate.

Then the next relief I offer is your basic utilities are free, up to 120% of your average usage.  I'll bail out the utilities as needed.  I suspend healthcare payments, deductibles and copays - we'll bail out healthcare insurance as needed.  Then I provide money to every family for food. 

I think that all about covers everyone's basic needs.  Look at business/industry bailouts as needed in the aftermath.  I think most industries (think auto, retail, etc) bounce back because of pent-up demand, but airline/hotel/restaurant are going to need help.

Yeah, that all makes sense and is the common sense way to approach it. I doubt that will actually happen, but as Trump says, we'll see what happens. 

I do have a thought that if we bailout the airlines and hotels that the payments should have strings attached. As in: No fucking bag or change fees or no stock buy back options until funds are fully paid back to the government. 

posted by O-Trap

Careful.  Bush 2's stimulus wasn't exactly anti-corporate welfare.
 

posted by jmog

No he hasn't, he has increased it bigly.

 

YUUUUUUUUUUGELY.
 

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Regardless of the nonsense Trump said early on, he now appears to be in touch with reality on this. I appreciate his frequent briefings and communicating the message that all resources are being deployed. He's doing the the right things and I'm appreciative. 

Seriously, credit where it's due.  Someone asked me to grade his job on handling this yesterday, and to that point, I gave him a C.  Slow start, and his blowhard nature made him sound like an idiot early on, but as things progressed, he's leaned more heavily on the experts.  He's come up with solutions which, for better or worse, seem to be instilling confidence from the citizens.  He's treating the matter with an appropriate level of sobriety.  I don't know that I think the stimulus will do much, so I'm not huge on that in theory or in function, but overall, he's acting like head of state finally.

If he keeps this up, I'll likely have to raise my grade on it as well.  He's not just not screwing it up.  He's actually doing well, by all indication.

 

I'll give credit to Trump for acting like an adult now, although his twitter account still sounds like a toddler. He is finally stepping back and letting the experts take over. Some of the stuff he did the last few days should have been done a few weeks ago, but hey, better late than never...

posted by Spock

We need a war to get us out of this

!!!

LOL. Sure....

posted by Spock

We need a war to get us out of this

!!!

Where’s John Bolton when you need him?

LOL

posted by iclfan2

Nah, nuke China for fucking this up in the first place

China needs to knock their shit off.

And our press needs to stop parroting their propaganda.

posted by QuakerOats

 

China needs to knock their shit off.

 

And our press needs to stop parroting their propaganda.

We are the ones who got in bed with them. This situation may cause us to rethink our globalization ambitions. This isn't partisan either.  It's the choice our entire population has been making  - every one of us that's every walked into a Walmart - has been onboard with this for 30 years. Maybe this will serve as a reset. 

Trump continues to do a good job overall. But he needs to stop with this "Chinese Virus" stuff. That isn't helping anyone or anything. He's doing to stir shit up and this is not the time. 

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Trump continues to do a good job overall. But he needs to stop with this "Chinese Virus" stuff. That isn't helping anyone or anything. He's doing to stir shit up and this is not the time. 

Agreed.  What he's DONE has been pretty good.  He just needs to shut TF up about it.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Trump continues to do a good job overall. But he needs to stop with this "Chinese Virus" stuff. That isn't helping anyone or anything. He's doing to stir shit up and this is not the time. 

We call the flu that started in Spain the Spanish flu to this day. I don’t understand the difference?

posted by jmog

We call the flu that started in Spain the Spanish flu to this day. I don’t understand the difference?

Feelings.  Feelings are the only difference.  

posted by jmog

We call the flu that started in Spain the Spanish flu to this day. I don’t understand the difference?

Technically the moniker isn't accurate and, thus, not really an adequate justification for the name.

Actually, there's some pretty good material on the topic.

https://www.historyextra.com/period/first-world-war/why-was-spanish-flu-pandemic-known-called-that-where-did-name-come-from-spain-myth-coronavirus-covid-19-name/
https://www.history.com/news/why-was-it-called-the-spanish-flu

Per Claude Hannoun, the leading expert on the 1918 flu for the Pasteur Institute, the 1918 flu (funnily enough resulting from the H1N1 virus) may have originated in China and began running through military bases and forts in the US before it made its way to Europe.  The first known case was actually in Kansas.  I've seen a few other theories, but not one from any credible authorities cites Spain as a likely origin.

Best I can find, nobody actually knows who started calling it the Spanish flu or why they did so.  Given that it's not even accurate, the only reason I can come up with to justify calling it that is that it's just always been called that, for better or worse.  Doesn't make it a very good precedent for trying to defend calling the COVID-19 virus the "Chinese virus," though.

Having said that, I'm not nearly as up in arms over calling it that as many are.  I just think it's a dumb thing to call it and an even dumber hill for people to die on.  It's a pandemic.  It's all over the world, and it seemed to get that way quickly.  Hanging an entire country's identity on the virus because one backward bumpkin didn't cook his bat shit soup enough seems silly.

posted by jmog

We call the flu that started in Spain the Spanish flu to this day. I don’t understand the difference?

Well aside from what Otrap already posted, it isn't quite 1918 anymore. We know what the virus is called. Neither Covid-19 or Coronavirus are hard to say or remember. Why call it the Chinese virus unless you are just trying to be an ass?

posted by Rotinaj

Well aside from what Otrap already posted, it isn't quite 1918 anymore. We know what the virus is called. Neither Covid-19 or Coronavirus are hard to say or remember. Why call it the Chinese virus unless you are just trying to be an ass?

It’s because the shit media is spreading Chinese propaganda that it might have started from the US. China also hid the fact it was happening and are completely responsible for the spread to all these countries. Fuck China, it’s not racist to say it, and the media really needs to quit asking him about it in his pressers bc they look like idiots. 

Also, there are numerous screenshots with news sources calling it Chinese Coronavirus and Wuhan Virus weeks ago, they only recently decided it should be called racist now.  This garbage about caring what he calls it and saying it’s racist is how you got Trump in the first place. 

posted by superman

Feelings.  Feelings are the only difference.  

No, I understand that, which is why, while I criticize Trump for a lot of his crap, this one I laugh at those calling him racist for calling it the Chinese Flu.

History tells us we typically name a flue based on its origin, either by type of animal or geological location, i.e. bird, swine, spanish, etc.

posted by iclfan2

It’s because the shit media is spreading Chinese propaganda that it might have started from the US. China also hid the fact it was happening and are completely responsible for the spread to all these countries. Fuck China, it’s not racist to say it, and the media really needs to quit asking him about it in his pressers bc they look like idiots. 

Also, there are numerous screenshots with news sources calling it Chinese Coronavirus and Wuhan Virus weeks ago, they only recently decided it should be called racist now.  This garbage about caring what he calls it and saying it’s racist is how you got Trump in the first place. 

I was just about to post this.

If that's the reason its petty, but its also Trump's modus operandi. You attack us/me; I attack back.

Again, not saying its a good reason, but it also doesn't make it "racist" like the left is insinuating. 

posted by iclfan2

It’s because the shit media is spreading Chinese propaganda that it might have started from the US. China also hid the fact it was happening and are completely responsible for the spread to all these countries. Fuck China, it’s not racist to say it, and the media really needs to quit asking him about it in his pressers bc they look like idiots. 

Also, there are numerous screenshots with news sources calling it Chinese Coronavirus and Wuhan Virus weeks ago, they only recently decided it should be called racist now.  This garbage about caring what he calls it and saying it’s racist is how you got Trump in the first place. 

Serious question. Are the leaders/citizens of any other country calling it the Chinese flu? If others around the world are doing the same then im perfectly fine with it. I have a feeling the answer is probably no.

posted by Rotinaj

Serious question. Are the leaders/citizens of any other country calling it the Chinese flu? If others around the world are doing the same then im perfectly fine with it. I have a feeling the answer is probably no.

Who cares what anyone else around the world is calling it.  Who cares what we are calling it.  This debate on this thread is retarded.  The way the media has spun this to keep the "Orange man is racist" narrative is sickening.  THe media should be doing their job and reporting the news not trying to create it.

I don't think it's "racist" to use the term. I just think now is not the time to be Petty about this. There'll be plenty of time to point fingers if that's what people want to do. But for now it is serving no purpose. 

posted by iclfan2

It’s because the shit media is spreading Chinese propaganda that it might have started from the US. China also hid the fact it was happening and are completely responsible for the spread to all these countries. Fuck China, it’s not racist to say it, and the media really needs to quit asking him about it in his pressers bc they look like idiots. 

Also, there are numerous screenshots with news sources calling it Chinese Coronavirus and Wuhan Virus weeks ago, they only recently decided it should be called racist now.  This garbage about caring what he calls it and saying it’s racist is how you got Trump in the first place. 

That's a cop out. There are right wing media spreading stories about it being engineered in a lab in NC. So what. Most reasonable people are concerned with what we are doing to fight it, not some half-baked conspiracy theory.