Reds Offseason Thread---New Manager, changes etc

• Ironman92

  

  Sign Choo?
  
  Sign Bronson?
  
  BHam in CF?
• Azubuike24

  

  Zero chance. Will get a comp. 1st round pick.
  Less than 5% chance. Likely will get a comp. pick.
  95% chance. Only if somehow he completely collapses or gets hurt.
  
  Upgrade the lineup. Most possibilities is in LF and 3B. Frazier is flexible, Ludwick can be upgraded. May take some sort of creative move with salary, but it's possible.
  
  Say they don't do anything except swap Hamilton for Choo. The bench must be upgraded. You have to go with quantity over quality. You need a legit guy who can play LF/CF, 3B/2B, who could start at both spots and be productive.
  
  I like Mark Ellis or Omar Infante or Michael Young for the IF. I like David DeJesus and Grady Sizemore for the OF.
  
  As for the pitching staff, if no moves are made, I'd imagine it will be similar to what it ended with this year.
  
  Cueto, Latos, Bailey, Cingrani, Leake
  
  Chapman, Hoover, Marshall, LeCure, Simon, Ondrusek, Broxton***
  
  The only other option is to shop Homer Bailey, like it has been speculated. They could sign someone as a project starter (I like James McDonald) and see if they can pull an offensive upgrade for Bailey.
• Ironman92

  

  Ellis, Infante and DeJesus are all guys that would be great to have......more playoff types as well.
• Ironman92

  

  Grady Sizemore? He has not been worth a shit since 2008 (Dusty's first year with Reds)
  
  I don't see that one at all. I would take Andruw Jones over him.
• Azubuike24

  

  He'd be dirt cheap and obviously, only if healthy.
  
  I mean, he's no worse than Chris Heisey or Derrick Robinson/Donald Lutz, who we carried on the bench all year.
• SportsAndLady

  

  Azubuike24;1519199 wrote:He'd be dirt cheap and obviously, only if healthy.
  
  I mean, he's no worse than Chris Heisey or Derrick Robinson/Donald Lutz, who we carried on the bench all year.

  Who cares if he's dirt cheap? Not your money that's being spent.
  
  And we shouldn't add players just because they're slightly better than our shitty players. No thanks on Sizemore.
• Ironman92

  

  Azubuike24;1519199 wrote:He'd be dirt cheap and obviously, only if healthy.
  
  I mean, he's no worse than Chris Heisey or Derrick Robinson/Donald Lutz, who we carried on the bench all year.

  I don't know that he's any better than any of them. Had some very PEDish years and then fell of the earth with injuries and hasn't played a single game the past 2 seasons. At least you know Heisey can play a good LF and CF.
  
  I still like Andruw Jones as a PH guy vs lefties.
• Azubuike24

  

  Well, arbitration numbers on Heisey and Xavier Paul put them both at over 2M a year. IMO, both suck. Sizemore, you could probably sign for league minimum w/incentives. He could play that bench role as the 5th OF, and then use 4-5M you would be paying those 2 bench guys to get a high quality, backup IF.
  
  Also, Ryan Hanigan is scheduled to make over 3M/yr as a backup catcher and Jack Hannahan is on a guaranteed 1.5M/yr contract. That's another 4.5M you could turn into 1 quality player. I mean, Hanigan hit freaking .200, a terrible OBP, two stints on the DL and not even your starter (or shouldn't be). You can get a guy like Dioner Navarro (or someone comparable like the Reds did in 2012) for nothing, who can give you what Hanigan did.
  
  That was kind of my point. Our bench SUCKS. Right now, between Hannahan, Paul, Hanigan and Heisey, it's scheduled to be almost 9M for those 4 guys. You could fill the same quality for about 2M if you were creative...
• Azubuike24

  

  SportsAndLady;1519204 wrote:Who cares if he's dirt cheap? Not your money that's being spent.
  
  And we shouldn't add players just because they're slightly better than our shitty players. No thanks on Sizemore.

  ...and no, it's not my money. However, I'm guessing the Reds payroll doesn't exceed 125M. It's going to be at 114M if all of the pieces remain the same. This also does include money still owed on buyouts, to Ken Griffey Jr. and to Bronson Arroyo for deferments.
  
  There's not going to be a lot to spend and that's why I brought up the fact that we're going to be spending 9M for a shitty ass bench. Time to overhaul it.
• SportsAndLady

  

  Azubuike24;1519212 wrote:...and no, it's not my money. However, I'm guessing the Reds payroll doesn't exceed 125M. It's going to be at 114M if all of the pieces remain the same. This also does include money still owed on buyouts, to Ken Griffey Jr. and to Bronson Arroyo for deferments.
  
  There's not going to be a lot to spend and that's why I brought up the fact that we're going to be spending 9M for a shitty ass bench. Time to overhaul it.

  Still though, just because they're better than our horrible bench players doesn't mean we should even think about bringing them in.
• Azubuike24

  

  Yeah, I see your point. And lets be real, the Reds won't have the stones to non-tender Heisey and Paul, or cut Hannahan and Hanigan (who they would have to still pay). In fact, because they are already signed, Hanigan and Hannahan are surely back.
  
  The spot to really upgrade would be with Paul/Heisey in the OF. You can save over 4M by non-tendering them, bring back Derrick Robinson for like 750K or even just a minimum deal (500K, as he's a minor league FA) and signing a legit 4th OF like DeJesus.
  
  Do you guys think Bailey should be shopped?
• Ironman92

  

  We know Heisey can be a good defensive 4th OF with occasional pop (would like to see some AB outside of Dustyball but anyways)...what proof of anything positive do we know on Grady?
  
  Let Hannahan and Paul fly.
  
  Hanigan is very very good with pitchers and is one of the top receiving catchers. I'm not worried about him making $3 million....if they do shop Homer, Hanigan becomes less important because Homer can't pitch to Meso (which is ridiculous)
  
  I'd shop Homer and BP....but not biting unless it's very good NOW.
• Ironman92

  

  I'd rather have DeJesus in LF everyday over Luddy.
• SportsAndLady

  

  Any idea when to expect a manager hire?
• Nate

  New manager needs to make Mesoraco the #1 catcher and play him more than Hannigan. I cannot suffer through another season of Hannigan batting below .200.
• justincredible

  

  Ironman92;1519218 wrote:I'd shop Homer and BP....but not biting unless it's very good NOW.

  Agree with this. I see Texas mentioned a lot as a potential trade partner for Homer. I've seen the Dodgers thrown out as a spot for BP.
• SportsAndLady

  

  Nate;1519261 wrote:New manager needs to make Mesoraco the #1 catcher and play him more than Hannigan. I cannot suffer through another season of Hannigan batting below .200.

  Agreed about meso. But I wasn't so down on hanigan as I probably should have been for a .200 hitter. He's a great defensive catcher and he at least seemed like he cared when he would get out. Unlike a lot of players on this team.
• SportsAndLady

  

  Side note..watching these playoffs games, it's incredible how poorly managed this reds team was. There was absolutely no fire in any of our guys. Dodgers, cardinals those teams play with fire and passion and we just didn't have that. Would love to get a young'ish former player like matheny managing the reds.
• Azubuike24

  

  SportsAndLady;1519283 wrote:Side note..watching these playoffs games, it's incredible how poorly managed this reds team was. There was absolutely no fire in any of our guys. Dodgers, cardinals those teams play with fire and passion and we just didn't have that. Would love to get a young'ish former player like matheny managing the reds.

  Also, for the most part, you need stone cold pitching. I mean, every walk, error, baserunner of any caliber is huge. Every bloop single, mental error and baserunning blunder is critical. Not only did this team not have the manager, but they also didn't have the caliber of pitchers (Leake, Arroyo) or hitters (everyone except maybe Votto and Choo when patient) or runners (aside from Hamilton or Choo).
  
  I'd have zero faith in a Dusty team, with this lineup and staff to be able to out-manage and out-execute a team like St. Louis or Detroit in a 1-0, 2-1 game. None at all. There's a reason a new manager and some tweaks in the roster must be made. There's an "It-Factor" missing.
• thavoice

  Would like to have Choo, but no way his agent will agree to what the reds would offer.
  
  The reds need to find offense, most notably in LF. CF will be tough as the output with BH will be less, but he may be able to make up for it in other ways if he can consitantly find his way on base. Remember before Choo the reds could not find a guy who could get on base in the LO spot
  
  I am for keeping HB, even if he may be in for a big pay day in a couple of years, and I think the rotation would suffer without him as BA will be gone as well with only TC really ready to come into the rotation.
  
  If they are intent on letting AC be a closer then I think he is the biggest chip the reds have to trade the the easiest to replace and not hurt the team. Whomever would replace him wouldnt put up his K ratio, but I think a number of guys could come in and get his save percentage.
  
  This team really needs Votto to be a guy who drives in 90+ and to do that he will need to be closer to his RISP stats that he avgs in his career. His DBLS were way down as well. Teams have found a weakspot with FB's inside. By his nature he goes the other way and waits to the ball gets deep, but you cannot do that on FB's in.
  
  He needs to make some sort of adjustment to be about to drive the FB on the inside.
• Ironman92

  

  Azubuike24;1519286 wrote:Also, for the most part, you need stone cold pitching. I mean, every walk, error, baserunner of any caliber is huge. Every bloop single, mental error and baserunning blunder is critical. Not only did this team not have the manager, but they also didn't have the caliber of pitchers (Leake, Arroyo) or hitters (everyone except maybe Votto and Choo when patient) or runners (aside from Hamilton or Choo).
  
  I'd have zero faith in a Dusty team, with this lineup and staff to be able to out-manage and out-execute a team like St. Louis or Detroit in a 1-0, 2-1 game. None at all. There's a reason a new manager and some tweaks in the roster must be made. There's an "It-Factor" missing.

  No one has 4 stud pitchers and every team uses 5 all season....Leake and Arroyo were significant parts of the 90 wins.......3 is all you need in the playoffs.
• thavoice

  Ironman92;1519311 wrote:No one has 4 stud pitchers and every team uses 5 all season....Leake and Arroyo were significant parts of the 90 wins.......3 is all you need in the playoffs.

  and to think the reds have ML as a back end of the rotation. BA is in the twilight of his career, but ML is becoming a very solid guy in the rotation, a poor mans greg maddux
• Heretic

  

  SportsAndLady;1519281 wrote:Agreed about meso. But I wasn't so down on hanigan as I probably should have been for a .200 hitter. He's a great defensive catcher and he at least seemed like he cared when he would get out. Unlike a lot of players on this team.

  And improved health could benefit Hanigan. Previously, he wasn't an offensive threat, but was at least a .260-270 slap hitter, I thought. But didn't he have injury issues most of the year with his hand or thumb? The kind of thing where he probably was having trouble gripping/swinging a bat, but was getting used a lot anyway just because of defensive value. I know my friends and I were talking about that a lot -- that his injury issues probably were interfering with his offensive ability.
• se-alum

  

  Heretic;1519339 wrote:And improved health could benefit Hanigan. Previously, he wasn't an offensive threat, but was at least a .260-270 slap hitter, I thought. But didn't he have injury issues most of the year with his hand or thumb? The kind of thing where he probably was having trouble gripping/swinging a bat, but was getting used a lot anyway just because of defensive value. I know my friends and I were talking about that a lot -- that his injury issues probably were interfering with his offensive ability.

  I think injuries were a big reason for Hanigan's struggles at the plate this year. Prior to this season, he was a career .275 batter w/ a .370 obp.
• thavoice

  Heretic;1519339 wrote:And improved health could benefit Hanigan. Previously, he wasn't an offensive threat, but was at least a .260-270 slap hitter, I thought. But didn't he have injury issues most of the year with his hand or thumb? The kind of thing where he probably was having trouble gripping/swinging a bat, but was getting used a lot anyway just because of defensive value. I know my friends and I were talking about that a lot -- that his injury issues probably were interfering with his offensive ability.

  True.
  
  But Mesoraco is ready to take over the reigns. They drafted him #1 to eventually be the starter and I think he has earned it. He has an RBI every 8.4 plate appearances this past season. (votto every 9.9) all while batting in a spot most times taht they can pitch around. Couple of seasons ago he didnt handle the staff, (uh huh, uh huh, you said handle the staff) as well but last year a few times they mentioned the rotation ERA with DM it was very good.
  
  Injuries or not, Hannigan is now going to be a backup for the reds and play maybe 1-2 games a week.