Ohio Chatter DEV

thavoice

justincredible;1554430 wrote:He's already had 2. He is steadily improving as he enters his prime. He's going to get paid.

Exactly. Steadily improving, has tremendous stuff. YOu cannot teach 97+ late in games. As I said, it is not like the guy has control issues that you just cannot get past.

His ERA has dropped 5 straight seasons and last year was down to 3.49. Innings are up each of the last 3 years. K's are up 5 straight seasons. WHip is down 5 straight seasons. His walks are good, like 1 per 3 IP.

He has also show alot more poise as the years have gone by. He is in more control on the mound and has made improvements. He used to be a hot head who wouldnt accept coaching or listen, but not by all accounts has matured.

and he is only 27.

His W/L have not been that stellar.
I like the direction he is going. You cannot coach up a pitcher to get to his ability. I think the reds should try and get a head start on signing him and take a chance. Another year where he improves and then he may be out of the price range.
We have bitched and bitched until recently about how the reds never had pitching. To make matters worse, the "good" pitching they had was never anyone they drafted. Now they have a 27/28 yr old power pitcher, that THEY DRAFTED, DEVELOPED and stood by as he went through his growing pains....that is the kind of pitcher you make a very fair offer to.

Mooney44Cards

Typically a pitcher begins to peak somewhere between the ages of 26-30. I think Latos, Cueto, Leake, and Bailey still have yet to hit their peaks and I have a feeling when they do they will demand huge dollars (relatively speaking) if they're not all locked up to a certain extent.

thavoice

Mooney44Cards;1554479 wrote:Typically a pitcher begins to peak somewhere between the ages of 26-30. I think Latos, Cueto, Leake, and Bailey still have yet to hit their peaks and I have a feeling when they do they will demand huge dollars (relatively speaking) if they're not all locked up to a certain extent.

If JC can stay healthy and continue to pitch as well as he has I think that he would be priced out of what the reds would offer. A guy like HB though without marquee seasons wont be able to command nearly as much.

Latos.......most def will command some big bucks. I dont think Leake will though. Very good pitcher, I love him on this staff and hope he is around for a long time.

se-alum

Let's be honest, the Reds aren't going to keep Bailey, Cueto, and Latos. They'll be lucky to keep 2 out of the 3. Gotta hope guys like Stephenson and Travieso will be ready before long.

thavoice

se-alum;1554524 wrote:Let's be honest, the Reds aren't going to keep Bailey, Cueto, and Latos. They'll be lucky to keep 2 out of the 3. Gotta hope guys like Stephenson and Travieso will be ready before long.

that is no doubt!

Mooney44Cards

To be honest, even though he is great.....I'd love to see Cueto go and hold on to Bailey and Latos. Right now I'm convinced that Cueto can't stay healthy, but maybe his 2014 season will prove me wrong.

Azubuike24

Mooney44Cards;1554742 wrote:To be honest, even though he is great.....I'd love to see Cueto go and hold on to Bailey and Latos. Right now I'm convinced that Cueto can't stay healthy, but maybe his 2014 season will prove me wrong.

At the same time, his stock is lower than the other 2 because of this. Making this even more cloudy, is that WHEN HEALTHY, Cueto is the best of three pitchers. So, if you could get a healthy Cueto (say 25-30 starts a year) for something like 4yr/40M vs paying 15-20M a year for Bailey or Latos, he might be the more valuable extension.

At the same time, if you're DEFINITELY trading one of them at some point, you have to weigh your potential benefit from signing them to the value they could fetch on the trade market.

thavoice

Azubuike24;1554866 wrote:At the same time, his stock is lower than the other 2 because of this. Making this even more cloudy, is that WHEN HEALTHY, Cueto is the best of three pitchers. So, if you could get a healthy Cueto (say 25-30 starts a year) for something like 4yr/40M vs paying 15-20M a year for Bailey or Latos, he might be the more valuable extension.

At the same time, if you're DEFINITELY trading one of them at some point, you have to weigh your potential benefit from signing them to the value they could fetch on the trade market.

I think we all agree that in 3-4 years all 3 of them wont be on the squad. Whom is gone will be determined by how each performs the next copule of seasons and what they can command on the open market.

I would like to see the reds take a chance on Bailey like they did with bruce and give him a very good deal and do it before he truly puts up numbers that would make others overpay.

I find it funny that Bruce isnt saying anything about his contract when he is underpaid yet BP cries.

Midstate01

Choo aka boras turned down 7years 140mil. Unreal. Choo is gonna be pissed when he doesnt get more than that... and ends up with less

thavoice

Midstate01;1554879 wrote:Choo aka boras turned down 7years 140mil. Unreal. Choo is gonna be pissed when he doesnt get more than that... and ends up with less

From whom?

Mooney44Cards

thavoice;1554880 wrote:From whom?

Who do you think? The Yankees of course.

sherm03

Crazy that the Yankees offered that even AFTER signing Ellsbury.

No way Choo will get a bigger offer than that. And also, you can pretty much guarantee that he isn't coming back next year.

thavoice

sherm03;1554894 wrote:Crazy that the Yankees offered that even AFTER signing Ellsbury.

No way Choo will get a bigger offer than that. And also, you can pretty much guarantee that he isn't coming back next year.

Sure he will. Someone will see what the yankees offered and offer a little bit more to get him, and keep from from going there.

se-alum

Was this a recent offer or prior to signing Ellsbury?

Azubuike24

se-alum;1554966 wrote:Was this a recent offer or prior to signing Ellsbury?

Yes, because it references that Boras wanted "Ellsbury money" for Choo. That was 7/153, which is what they countered with. The Yanks said no and moved on.

Like others have said, there's no way he will get the 7/140 now. You don't hold all the cards now that something like this goes public.

thavoice

Question: Anyone think that the players ever get embarrassed by the offers their agent's decline? I know in the end they are happy because they get big money, but dont ya think at least something about them gets embarrassed?

sportswizuhrd

Xavier Paul signs with the Orioles(minor-league deal) and Greg Reynolds signed with a Japanese team. Had no idea that either player was a FA.

Reds did sign Chien-Meng Wang to a minor-league deal.

mhs95_06

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/cin/richard-justice-suggestions-to-change-joey-vottos-approach-unwarranted?ymd=20131229&content_id=66232772&vkey=news_cin

Votto's problem last season was not with selectivity, but that he couldn't hit "his pitch" nearly as proficiently as in previous seasons when he got it. For a while it resulted in more walks than previously because since he didn't put "his pitch" in play as much, he got more pitches after he missed it, and got a lot of walks in plate appearances when he missed "his pitch" and ended up walking instead of putting a ball in play. Later in the season, the pitchers noticed he was missing "his pitch" and challenged him much more with more of "his pitches" with good success.

thavoice

mhs95_06;1559540 wrote:http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/cin/richard-justice-suggestions-to-change-joey-vottos-approach-unwarranted?ymd=20131229&content_id=66232772&vkey=news_cin

Votto's problem last season was not with selectivity, but that he couldn't hit "his pitch" nearly as proficiently as in previous seasons when he got it. For a while it resulted in more walks than previously because since he didn't put "his pitch" in play as much, he got more pitches after he missed it, and got a lot of walks in plate appearances when he missed "his pitch" and ended up walking instead of putting a ball in play. Later in the season, the pitchers noticed he was missing "his pitch" and challenged him much more with more of "his pitches" with good success.

To me it looked like pitchers found the spot where he is vulnerable, inside and mid thigh and up level. He is so patient at the plate and lets the ball get deep into the zone before he swings. That is why he hits the ball so well to the opposite field. PItchers are more afraid to go inside and usually go away, away, away because guys are trying to yank it and lok for something middle in. ALso, lefties tend to love the down in in pitch. Now Votto is seeing more inside pitches that are on the plate, and because of his approach to hitting it then becomes almost too late as you hit the inside pitch out in front of the plate more.

SOmeone had a stat last year how JV never, or rarely, fouls one into the stands down 1st base line. That is incredible if you ask me. Just shows he waits until its deep and drives it the otehr way.

mhs95_06

thavoice;1559635 wrote:To me it looked like pitchers found the spot where he is vulnerable, inside and mid thigh and up level. He is so patient at the plate and lets the ball get deep into the zone before he swings. That is why he hits the ball so well to the opposite field. PItchers are more afraid to go inside and usually go away, away, away because guys are trying to yank it and lok for something middle in. ALso, lefties tend to love the down in in pitch. Now Votto is seeing more inside pitches that are on the plate, and because of his approach to hitting it then becomes almost too late as you hit the inside pitch out in front of the plate more.

SOmeone had a stat last year how JV never, or rarely, fouls one into the stands down 1st base line. That is incredible if you ask me. Just shows he waits until its deep and drives it the otehr way.

I agree. Also I'm thinking that weakness in his injured knee caused some of it. His normal locked in oppo field swing was finely tuned and his solidly hit balls were able to reach the wall or the seats routinely. Then after the injury, those same solidly hit balls didn't quite make it as far, and became outs. So he tried to adjust and put alittle more "oomph" on his swing which made him even more vulnerable to that upper half inside pitch.

I think very clumsy base running(sliding) by Votto in mid 2012, and Ludwick on 2013 opening day really hurt the Reds offense the last 1.5 seasons!

se-alum

Color me shocked...

MLB Trade Rumors ‏@mlbtraderumors 4m Reds Unlikely To Make Big Moves http://dlvr.it/4dL5nS #mlb

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