2012 Cleveland Browns thread: AKA Pat Shurmur Memorial thread
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shook_17
don't hold your breathohiobucks1;1041158 wrote:I think we need RGIII. If we don't draft him and he's there... I'm going to be pissed -
Mulva
And that's if they draft well. Heckert had some great picks as GM (Jackson, McCoy, Celek) at Philly, but some pretty huge misses as well. I know Andy Reid had/has the final say with everything with the Eagles, but you can't be drafting guys in the 3rd round that are cut and out of the NFL entirely within 2 years, especially in the Browns situation.BR1986FB;1041027 wrote:Building through draft alone will take another 3-5 years just to be a playoff potential team. -
IggyPride00
I spent the day listening to the radio yesterday at work (both 92.3 and 850) and across the board they were just ripping the press conference with a main complaint being that there is just zero sense of urgency in Berea.BR1986FB;1041027 wrote:Which is a mistake, imo. You obviously want to build through the draft and not go hog wild in FA but adding 3-4 key pieces along with a solid draft could give this team some "makeup speed."
If he ****s around with this turtle-like "slow and steady wins the race" through the draft attitude, they WILL lose fans, regardless of Holmgren's arrogant statement that the fans will 'stick with them." Building through draft alone will take another 3-5 years just to be a playoff potential team.
There is a level of arrogance among this organization that is just baffling. No one is on the hot seat, no one has to earn their keep. I just don't get it.
I think the lack of urgency at the management level does trickle down to the players.
Holmgren has got to know that telling this fan base that he's in no hurry, and we as fans aren't going anywhere no matter how long it takes him, isn't endearing him to anyone.
I know he's not a stupid guy, but he just seems so out of touch right now with the pulse of the city it is hard to understand.
I also got the impression that we aren't drafting RGIII no matter what, as you could tell by the way they stress the importance of the system that they want no part of someone who isn't built to run the west coast.
I think Richardson is going to be the pick the more I think of it. They seem stubbornly committed to this group of wideouts, and Hillis is going to be given his walking papers (which is a mistake). That leaves Richardson as there will be a hole in the backfield, and he can make an immediate impact.
Solid sure thing types seem to be the MO of this front office right now as they want guys that are ready to play now even if they are lower ceiling types. There is not a whole lot of imagination in Berea right now. -
tyjodanGet a offensive coordinator.............
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derek bomar
FIFYtyjodan;1041335 wrote:Get an offensive coordinator............. -
Wooball
I'm probably in the minority here, but I'm pretty optimistic about the Browns for 2012. Here's why:
1: At worst, the Browns are going to add 3 starters to their team in the draft. If they move out of #4, they could add 4 or 5. Do we need playmakers? Absolutely. But Heckert took Desean Jackson at #49, Jeremy Maclin at #19 and Lesean McCoy at #53. They can find playmakers outside the top 5 or 10. I will not be upset if they move out of the #4 pick. In fact, I think they will actively look to do so unless they are in love w/ RG3 and doing a great job of hiding it so teams in need of a QB don't jump them on draft day.
2: I don't think they are going to go nuts in free agency, but I expect a few guys to be brought in, namely at RT, LB and WR. Maybe some help on the DL, but probably more of a depth signing than a starter.
3: I am not a Colt McCoy fan. But, if they choose to go forward w/ him (or a free agent) the addition of a RT and some game changers COULD result in much better #'s. He should improve to some degree going through his first offseason in the west coast offense, as should all their other young players.
4: We had a top 10 defense in 2011 w/ basically no offseason transitioning from the 3-4 to the 43. Give Jauron a full offseason of workouts, a few more players to fit his system, and improvement from all the 1st and 2nd year guys (Haden, Ward, Sheard, Taylor, Skrine) and the defense could be a major force.
OK, now back to reality and tearing apart the front office/coach. -
se-alum
I don't really think it's true that there's no sense of urgency. There's a sense of realism. This team isn't a big money free agent away from a Super Bowl. They don't even have a legit starting offense, let alone enough depth on either side of the ball to really be a contender. Who should be on the hot seat? The first year head coach? You can't keep starting over if you want to build a winning organization. I trust that Heckert and Holmgren know what they are doing. Holmgren has built winners everywhere, and we've seen what happened in Philly when the Eagles just started signing names and not necessarily positions of need. It will take time, and the organization knows this.IggyPride00;1041322 wrote:I spent the day listening to the radio yesterday at work (both 92.3 and 850) and across the board they were just ripping the press conference with a main complaint being that there is just zero sense of urgency in Berea.
There is a level of arrogance among this organization that is just baffling. No one is on the hot seat, no one has to earn their keep. I just don't get it.
I think the lack of urgency at the management level does trickle down to the players.
Holmgren has got to know that telling this fan base that he's in no hurry, and we as fans aren't going anywhere no matter how long it takes him, isn't endearing him to anyone.
I know he's not a stupid guy, but he just seems so out of touch right now with the pulse of the city it is hard to understand.
I also got the impression that we aren't drafting RGIII no matter what, as you could tell by the way they stress the importance of the system that they want no part of someone who isn't built to run the west coast.
I think Richardson is going to be the pick the more I think of it. They seem stubbornly committed to this group of wideouts, and Hillis is going to be given his walking papers (which is a mistake). That leaves Richardson as there will be a hole in the backfield, and he can make an immediate impact.
Solid sure thing types seem to be the MO of this front office right now as they want guys that are ready to play now even if they are lower ceiling types. There is not a whole lot of imagination in Berea right now. -
zach24ozI wouldnt be that upset if they traded out of the #4 spot and got a couple more picks in the first couple rounds...say they trade back a little bit and they can still get the guy they want and are certain he will still be there. I just dont want them to trade back clear in the 20's...trade back around 10 early teens if the price is right. It would be a win-win, get the guy you want along with adding more potential starters for both sides of the ball.
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BR1986FBnfldraftupdate Dion
Caputi
# Colts free-agent WR
Pierre Garcon is expected to take a look around in FA before deciding on
re-signing. R.Wayne & A.Gonzalez are FA's too. -
DeyDurkie5
We will lose some fans, sure. Probably the old time, "WE GOTTA WIN NOW OR IM GOING TO FUCKING KILL SOMEONE" fans. Fans that are fed up with watching this shit. That's fine, go ahead and drop the team because it's not happening. I will be there as a fan, regardless of what happens cuase I like the way the organization is taking this team. If you didn't see improvement, then you are either a. retarded or b. didn't watch the team this year. We are a couple players away from being a playoff team. It's that simple. If it doesn't happen next year, it will the year after it. And I'm going to laugh when these supposed "fans" come crawling back acting like they are gods gift to the team. -
se-alum
This is the first time since the team came back that we have a clear cut plan and direction. It will be a slow and painful process, but I would rather build for the long term success, instead of some flash in the pan seasons.DeyDurkie5;1041546 wrote:We will lose some fans, sure. Probably the old time, "WE GOTTA WIN NOW OR IM GOING TO FUCKING KILL SOMEONE" fans. Fans that are fed up with watching this shit. That's fine, go ahead and drop the team because it's not happening. I will be there as a fan, regardless of what happens cuase I like the way the organization is taking this team. If you didn't see improvement, then you are either a. retarded or b. didn't watch the team this year. We are a couple players away from being a playoff team. It's that simple. If it doesn't happen next year, it will the year after it. And I'm going to laugh when these supposed "fans" come crawling back acting like they are gods gift to the team. -
DeyDurkie5
exactly...that's why i love the "we will lose fans over this"...good, fuck them if they choose to bail on the brownies.se-alum;1041583 wrote:This is the first time since the team came back that we have a clear cut plan and direction. It will be a slow and painful process, but I would rather build for the long term success, instead of some flash in the pan seasons. -
shook_17
reguardless, we will always be fans. :thumbup:DeyDurkie5;1041585 wrote:exactly...that's why i love the "we will lose fans over this"...good, **** them if they choose to bail on the brownies. -
Go4alOngbOmB
I've been on the "give Colt players to play with around him" train for a long time. Ask BR1986FB, we have butted heads about it on Browns boards time and time again. But if RGIII is there in the #4 slot....TAKE HIM. Unless he falls on his face in the combine, which I do NOT think he will, not taking him would be a mistake. I am all about finishing what we started, and I do NOT expect to contend for the division crown next season. Not being negative, just being honest.
We started building a core offensive line, and a defense starting 2 seasons ago. We in my opinion have had solid pics on the defensive side of the ball in the past 2 seasons. Finish the job this season in the draft. Do everything else in free agency. Finish building your Offensive line in the draft, your LB's and your D backs in the draft....and if the RGIII carrot is dangling at #4, take it.
As for WR's, we need to find a burner as a FA, V Jackson scares the PEE out of me, he tends to get hurt and diva out too much for my taste....but getting a Garcon and someone who is a deep threat would be solid FA pickups. Its not like we don't have the cap room ya know. At this point, I am willing to try about anything to win 8 games.
As much as this season was labeled by the front office as an "Evaluation year" you have too die hard of a fan base to do that to us again. I would be willing to accept next year as a rebuilding season, but I want to rebuild for a 10-12 year haul of being a contender....finish the jobs that you started with the Defense and the O line from the last few seasons, fill in the gaps with good free agents, and at least give us 7 wins next season.
Im not even asking for .500 anymore.....just not a number lower than 6! -
Go4alOngbOmB
REPSDeyDurkie5;1041585 wrote:exactly...that's why i love the "we will lose fans over this"...good, fuck them if they choose to bail on the brownies. -
Go4alOngbOmB
zach24oz;1041476 wrote:I wouldnt be that upset if they traded out of the #4 spot and got a couple more picks in the first couple rounds...say they trade back a little bit and they can still get the guy they want and are certain he will still be there. I just dont want them to trade back clear in the 20's...trade back around 10 early teens if the price is right. It would be a win-win, get the guy you want along with adding more potential starters for both sides of the ball.
I swear on my life, if for the what feels like the 300th draft straight, I hear that commissioner say..."with the (insert top 8 pick here) The Browns have traded to the (insert NFL team here)."
I will punch a baby.....kick a kitten....and probably eat someones happiness. -
BearBoy69
Getting rid of quarterbacks and coaches every 2 seasons is exactly why they suck. Keep colt and charmer for at least 3 more years put good recievers around him a few new lineman and a playmaking lb and you have yourselves a team that is good because they are on the brink now. Browns fans jump the gun way too quick on QBs and head coaches -
BR1986FB
Keep Colt for THREE more years? You've GOT to be fucking kidding? It doesn't matter WHAT weapons you put around him, the dude is still gonna suck.BearBoy69;1041680 wrote:Getting rid of quarterbacks and coaches every 2 seasons is exactly why they suck. Keep colt and charmer for at least 3 more years put good recievers around him a few new lineman and a playmaking lb and you have yourselves a team that is good because they are on the brink now. Browns fans jump the gun way too quick on QBs and head coaches
For those who say "put <franchise QB> behind our line with our weapons and they STILL wouldn't succeed", I'll do you ONE better. Put Colt McCoy in Green Bays offense, with a WORSE O-Line (both running and pass blocking...verified by stats) and those weapons, he will STILL get happy feet, panic like he does now, roll to his right ALL of the time, which is his current tendency NOW, and check down, which is his current tendency now. He would NOT be a franchise QB in GB's system. He would neuter their offense. Can't put lipstick on a pig. -
BR1986FBSo Dan Gilbert is looking to buy a Cleveland football team.....
Too bad it's the Gladiators... -
like_that
BR1986FB;1041734 wrote:Keep Colt for THREE more years? You've GOT to be fucking kidding? It doesn't matter WHAT weapons you put around him, the dude is still gonna suck.
For those who say "put <franchise QB> behind our line with our weapons and they STILL wouldn't succeed", I'll do you ONE better. Put Colt McCoy in Green Bays offense, with a WORSE O-Line (both running and pass blocking...verified by stats) and those weapons, he will STILL get happy feet, panic like he does now, roll to his right ALL of the time, which is his current tendency NOW, and check down, which is his current tendency now. He would NOT be a franchise QB in GB's system. He would neuter their offense. Can't put lipstick on a pig.
Lol, I was worried bearboy was going to give you a heart attack with his post.
And you almost gave me one with the first line.BR1986FB;1041775 wrote:So Dan Gilbert is looking to buy a Cleveland football team.....
Too bad it's the Gladiators... -
BR1986FB
Admittedly I bash on McCoy a lot but people are conning themselves if they believe this kid is capable of being a franchise type QB. I wanted him to excel as much as anyone because it was a "feel good" story. If you load up on weapons, it's like a luxury automobile. You have the car (offensive weapons), you don't put water (McCoy) in the gas tanks...you put premium (franchise QB) in it for optimum performance.like_that;1041776 wrote:Lol, I was worried bearboy was going to give you a heart attack with his post. -
like_that
I'd be ok with Colt another year, getting an actual off season, but I'd also be ok with drafting RGIII. I just doubt holmgren does that. It seems like he wants his cheap, low risk/high reward fix at QB. The only problem with that is Holmgren was the coach when Favre and Hasselbeck were under center. Patty boy isn't going to be capable of grooming these guys on his own. We can say Holmgren will help, but he isn't going to be able to put the same amount of time into it as he did as a coach.BR1986FB;1041784 wrote:Admittedly I bash on McCoy a lot but people are conning themselves if they believe this kid is capable of being a franchise type QB. I wanted him to excel as much as anyone because it was a "feel good" story. If you load up on weapons, it's like a luxury automobile. You have the car (offensive weapons), you don't put water (McCoy) in the gas tanks...you put premium (franchise QB) in it for optimum performance. -
BR1986FB
I just don't know what the fuck happened to him. Last year he showed a little promise and during this preseason I was like "here we go...FINALLY gonna see some offense' yet he regressed throughout the season.like_that;1041790 wrote:I'd be ok with Colt another year, getting an actual off season.
Drops from the receivers aside, he showed NO signs of being the guy to move forward with. After one bad game you'd hope "he'll bounce back and improve" but he didn't. QB has to show SOME progress throughout the season so you say "yeah, we can build behind this guy" but McCoy just flatlined or regressed with his performances.
Defenses don't have to gameplan around him. If I'm a D-Coordinator, when Hillis was healthy, my gameplan is "stop Hillis and you win because McCoy won't beat you." -
wes_mantooth
:thumbup::thumbup: YES!!!:thumbup::thumbup:BR1986FB;1040856 wrote: I've been saying "no, no, no" to a top 5 WR but if the QB is in place I'd warm up to taking Blackmon with their pick in this scenario if he's still on the board.