Women and Minorities: A Question.

• sleeper

  

  like_that;1396398 wrote:If I was in the position to hire a black or white person, I would go with who was more qualified. It is not that difficult. I have nothing against black people but their reputation is they want handouts. Perception is reality. If a black guy is a candidate for a job I am hiring, I am not going to think "oh he is black, he wants a hand out." I am going to think "this man has a resume with his education and qualifications listed. He has worked to get to this point."

  This attitude has been verified by numerous studies. It's time for minorities to grow up and get rid of their racist policies.
• Gblock

  sleeper;1396441 wrote:It absolutely does. One of the common arguments for affirmative action is that blacks are behind because of slavery; when in reality if it weren't for slavery many of them would be dead in Africa somewhere. Of course, slavery is wrong, but don't act like it was all white people capturing and selling black people or that blacks didn't benefit from it. Trying to right the wrongs of the past by continuing "reverse racism" is a failed strategy. They've done studies that basically state most of the new generation is racist DIRECTLY because of affirmative action and other pro-minority policies. White people think that minorities and women are inferior because they NEED quotas to be competitive and they only accomplish things because of the color of their skin or their sexual organs. Time for minorities to grow up and embrace reality rather than be hand held their whole life and wonder why they can't get any respect.

  lol
• sleeper

  

  There's also an interesting study out there that basically says black people think black people are inferior to white people. I guess blacks are racist against themselves. :laugh:
• sleeper

  

  Gblock;1396410 wrote:so you say...but many times the qualifications will be equal or very close. also by many of your coments you sound like you have some underlying bitterness or anomocity or at minimum a lack of understanding of/towards black people

  This never happens. No two candidates are ever equal.
• Gblock

  sleeper;1396448 wrote:This never happens. No two candidates are ever equal.

  if you get 50-100 applicants you wont find very similarly qualified candidates at the top?
• sleeper

  

  Gblock;1396428 wrote:again you cant judge all black people by whatever backwater town you live in or the few you have met in person. the same can be said for any race..there are millions more whites on public aid than blacks albiet not percentage wise. what is their excuse?

  There are also millions more whites in this country than black people. Whites about 70% of the country and blacks about 15%. Yet, of welfare recipients, blacks are over 40% and whites are around 55%.
  
  Perception is reality. :thumbup:
• FatHobbit

  

  I read an interesting study yesterday about white people who fabricate studies about black people to make themselves feel better. It said they were no better than people who live in Columbus and root for Michigan.
• Fly4Fun

  

  sleeper;1396445 wrote:There's also an interesting study out there that basically says black people think black people are inferior to white people. I guess blacks are racist against themselves. :laugh:

  There are different studies like that, and generally the blame is put on society (not saying this is right or wrong). One of the most famous studies finding this is the "doll study" from Brown v. Board of Education. How the "results" of that study were interpreted and how they were used to support some reasoning in the opinion itself is questionable.
  
  Just some interesting reading.
• sleeper

  

  Gblock;1396449 wrote:if you get 50-100 applicants you wont find very similarly qualified candidates at the top?

  No. Interviews, references, cover letters, etc are all massive variables that can easily make a difference. I sit in interviews for my company and there's ALWAYS a standout candidate; ALWAYS.
• Gblock

  sleeper;1396451 wrote:There are also millions more whites in this country than black people. Whites about 70% of the country and blacks about 15%. Yet, of welfare recipients, blacks are over 40% and whites are around 55%.
  
  Perception is reality. :thumbup:

  did you not read the part where i said albeit not percentage wise?? smh also i beleive blacks are now 30 percent or so of the population of the top of my head.
• Gblock

  sleeper;1396454 wrote:No. Interviews, references, cover letters, etc are all massive variables that can easily make a difference. I sit in interviews for my company and there's ALWAYS a standout candidate; ALWAYS.

  this could be true i however stand by my original point that a person of any race all things being equal is more likely to hire or look for reasons to hire, make a connection with someone who looks like them.
• ZWICK 4 PREZ

  

  ernest_t_bass;1396425 wrote:Your intuition. Just answer the fucking question.

  My intuition wouldn't tell me someone is a keeper if they're not qualified. Perhaps your intuition is failing you?
• sleeper

  

  Fly4Fun;1396453 wrote:There's different studies like that, and generally the blame is put on society (not saying this is right or wrong). One of the most famous studies finding this is the "doll study" from Brown v. Board of Education. How the "results" of that study were used to support some reasoning in the opinion itself is questionable.
  
  Just some interesting reading.

  Right. Just think it's funny that blacks cry racism but can't even get it right between their own race. :laugh:
• sleeper

  

  Gblock;1396459 wrote:this could be true i however stand by my original point that a person of any race all things being equal is more likely to hire or look for reasons to hire, make a connection with someone who looks like them.

  I doubt that's the case, but even I guess there no minority managers that do this! :thumbup:
• sleeper

  

  Gblock;1396456 wrote:did you not read the part where i said albeit not percentage wise?? smh also i beleive blacks are now 30 percent or so of the population of the top of my head.

  30% no chance. Percentage wise is the more relevant number.
• Fly4Fun

  

  sleeper;1396461 wrote:Right. Just think it's funny that blacks cry racism but can't even get it right between their own race. :laugh:

  If society is indeed set up in a way that indoctrinates racism and leads kids from a young age to believe that they are less valuable members of society, then isn't that institutional racism in how our country is operating on a daily basis?
  
  I'm not saying that I do or don't believe this. The studies that I reference generally have that line of reasoning as a hypothesis. How is that their fault?
• sleeper

  

  Fly4Fun;1396465 wrote:If society is indeed set up in a way that indoctrinates racism and leads kids from a young age to believe that they are less valuable members of society, then isn't that institutional racism in how our country is operating on a daily basis?
  
  I'm not saying that I do or don't believe this. The studies that I reference generally have that line of reasoning as a hypothesis. How is that their fault?

  It's their fault because they aren't doing anything about it. Get rid of affirmative action and stop indoctrinating children to believe anytime someone with different skin color wrongs you; it doesn't mean they are a racist. Racism is taught; it's not normal human nature to make an inference about the quality of an individual based on their skin color; it's taught by whites to whites and its taught by minorities to minorities.
• Fly4Fun

  

  Gblock;1396456 wrote:did you not read the part where i said albeit not percentage wise?? smh also i beleive blacks are now 30 percent or so of the population of the top of my head.

  http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/39000.html
  
  I might have done the wrong query, but it seems that only 13% of the US population is black.
  
  78.1% is white (63% is white non-hispanic).
  
  Ohio specifically is a little more white than the rest of country.
• Gblock

  sleeper;1396462 wrote:I doubt that's the case, but even I guess there no minority managers that do this! :thumbup:

  again if you read i said ANY RACE. it is a natural human response that you may not even be aware of it.
  but when you consider that the ratio of white to minority managers is 20 to 1(my own stat) it can create a huge hiring gap.
  
  http://equity.missouri.edu/recruitment-hiring/bias.php
  
  http://www.upenn.edu/provost/images/uploads/Gender.Racial_.Bias_.pdf
  
  http://writers.unconsciousbias.org/2009/09/best-man-for-the-job-how-bias-affects-hiring/
• sleeper

  

  Gblock;1396473 wrote:again if you read i said ANY RACE. it is a natural human response that you may not even be aware of it.
  but when you consider that the ratio of white to minority managers is 20 to 1(my own stat) it can create a huge hiring gap.
  
  http://equity.missouri.edu/recruitment-hiring/bias.php
  
  http://www.upenn.edu/provost/images/uploads/Gender.Racial_.Bias_.pdf
  
  http://writers.unconsciousbias.org/2009/09/best-man-for-the-job-how-bias-affects-hiring/

  I'm aware of it and I don't disagree. Assuming that this is applied across all races, it's effectively neutralized for all races. Some will get the benefit with one race and the other with another race. In short, I don't have a problem with it.
  
  And perhaps if black people actually had to work for things in life rather than having everything being handed to them based on the color of the skin, maybe more companies would be willing to promote them to management positions.
• Fly4Fun

  

  sleeper;1396467 wrote:It's their fault because they aren't doing anything about it. Get rid of affirmative action and stop indoctrinating children to believe anytime someone with different skin color wrongs you; it doesn't mean they are a racist. Racism is taught; it's not normal human nature to make an inference about the quality of an individual based on their skin color; it's taught by whites to whites and its taught by minorities to minorities.

  We have been trying to do something about it as a country. These studies also do predate affirmative action, for example the one I referenced in my earlier post that is discussed in a footnote in Brown v. Board of Education. However, there is some opposition to affirmative action based on the negative effects it can have such as distrust/animosity towards individuals who are perceived as having benefited from it whether they really did or not. There is also the idea in education of the mismatch hypothesis, that is a person gaining access to a school that is statistically (based on standardized tests and GPA) out of their reach and then failing in that situation where they could have succeeded in one more suitable to their skills. There are plenty of studies out there that speak to these kinds of issues, some support one side, some the other. There is no clear cut answer at the moment.
  
  Also your point about racism being taught, I disagree. Most stereotypes and prejudiced based off them is normal human behavior. It's survival instinct not to trust those you don't understand. If you don't understands someones language, culture, religion, etc. it makes sense from a survival aspect to distrust their motives and behavior. It is up to civil societies to try to bridge these gaps and better understand each other in order to relate to each other in ways that would be non-violent and fair.
  
  Information is the most powerful tool we have when trying to fight prejudice; being open and honest about yourself to help educate others who don't understand you helps others learn and grow.
• Pick6

  

  just stating the obvious: ETB started this thread because he was passed up by a chick in refereeing.
• sleeper

  

  Also your point about racism being taught, I disagree. Most stereotypes and prejudiced based off them is normal human behavior. It's survival instinct not to trust those you don't understand. If you don't understands someone language, culture, religion, etc. it makes sense from a survival aspect to distrust their motives and behavior. It is up to civil societies to try to bridge these gaps and better understand each other in order to relate to each other in ways that would be non-violent and fair.
  
  Information is the most powerful tool we have when trying to fight prejudice; being open and honest about yourself to help educate others who don't understand you helps others learn and grow.

  Distrust, sure; superiority? No.
  
  Perhaps if we focused on treating all people the same regardless of skin color, religion, gender, age, etc. we'd be much better off. But no, we have to have special categories for everyone; divide and conquer.
• sleeper

  

  There is also the idea in education of the mismatch hypothesis, that is a person gaining access to a school that is statistically (based on standardized tests and GPA) out of their reach and then failing in that situation where they could have succeeded in one more suitable to their skills.

  This is a problem that is essentially impossible to solve. The only way to do it is to hold parents accountable to their children and that will never happen. Otherwise, making national policy to better the minorities that are caught in this trap only helps those minorities that don't need the help. Get rid of racial and gender based aid and make it strictly based on income(or get rid of all aid together).
• like_that

  

  Pick6;1396485 wrote:just stating the obvious: ETB started this thread because he was passed up by a chick in refereeing."

  Solid point.