I should have put the "I think he did it and bragged about it" in quotes.  geeblocks words.  Interested in if he could back it up.

posted by majorspark

Everyone knows what went down here.  The jurors, the judge, all of us.  Its not that complex.  Who is ok with this?  Make your case.  Others have.

“Everyone” here I think would be better stated as “me and people who believe as I do”.  It’s interesting that everyone who disagrees with this seems to either forget that it was a jury verdict, or dismiss the opinion of the jurors because “everyone knows NYC is liberal”.  These same people seem to have developed deep expertise on jurisprudence, common law, and judicial records in only a few weeks.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

“Everyone” here I think would be better stated as “me and people who believe as I do”.  It’s interesting that everyone who disagrees with this seems to either forget that it was a jury verdict, or dismiss the opinion of the jurors because “everyone knows NYC is liberal”.  These same people seem to have developed deep expertise on jurisprudence, common law, and judicial records in only a few weeks.

Impeached twice.  Now this.  I and others are not fucking fools.

It can be debated if it’s a crime or not but what am I missing? He said multiple times that he did it and I it was a “legal expense “. I really don’t think he denied it ever. Even Jmog said of course he did it which is what most rational people believe. It’s perfectly fine to say it’s a political which hunt, but to say he didn’t do exactly what they said he did I just stupid. 

posted by gut

This should be good.  I don't recall ever hearing Trump brag about getting away with bookkeeping fraud, so I'm curious as to what crime geeblock thinks Trump is guilty of and what he thinks the charges were.

I consider myself to be a rational person, and I don't think Trump committed the crime he was accused of here.  I also think geeblock is talking about something completely different, and wrong, per usual.

 U think he didn’t pay stormy Daniel’s 150,000$? 

posted by majorspark

Impeached twice.  Now this.  I and others are not fucking fools.

He exists in the same sewer his “enemies” reside in. 

It’s apparent that people who see it as you do don’t need to know any details or have a legal knowledge basis.  They just “know” that it’s rigged against him just because they know it.

I’m sure it was politically motivated for the Manhattan DA to bring this case , just the same way legal and civil misfortune has found many other polarizing figures.  He’s still been found guilty of his crimes by a jury.  That is problematic to the deep state simplistic political narrative.  

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

He exists in the same sewer his “enemies” reside in. 

It’s apparent that people who see it as you do don’t need to know any details or have a legal knowledge basis.  They just “know” that it’s rigged against him just because they know it.

I’m sure it was politically motivated for the Manhattan DA to bring this case , just the same way legal and civil misfortune has found many other polarizing figures.  He’s still been found guilty of his crimes by a jury.  That is problematic to the deep state simplistic political narrative.  

Do you think:

1.) it really did need to ignore the statute of limitations and be prosecuted by the state with the entryway crime not even discussed during the trial or

2.) should have gone the Hillary Clinton way and Trump fined $8000 and his campaign fined $150,000 by the FEC?

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

It’s apparent that people who see it as you do don’t need to know any details or have a legal knowledge basis.  They just “know” that it’s rigged against him just because they know it.

I have posted legal arguments.  So have others.  Focus on that not Trump. 

posted by majorspark

I have posted legal arguments.  So have others.  Focus on that not Trump. 

Well now you know that won't happen

TLDR

One of the worst arguments about the Trump trial is done by people who out of one side of their mouth they will say that there is a two tier justice system against black people and then out of the other side of their mouth, when it concerns Trump, deny the existence of a two tier justice system. It either exists or it doesn't. So it leads me to believe that these people who talk out of both sides of their mouth are well aware that they're doing it. But utilizing the argument in such a manner has such an appeal as a tool to shut any argument down they default to it because they've had some prior level of success with it. 

For myself, I'm completely and shamelessly deaf to the tactic. A person either has the principle to carry it across the board or they do not. Some people can, I think. But those people can show the comparative process, stats and a conclusion. To be fair, not too many people take the time to do that. 

This case with Trump is so public, so showcased, that using a comparison is rather easy. Where it is difficult to do is when it's somebody that nobody ever heard of, never makes the news. 

In this Trump trial, is it really a political ideology when people point out the rather stark contrast of equal application of the law? Or is it the oversaturation of media walking us through it day by day, where even medias like CNN show how Clinton was dealt with concerning her campaign finance indiscretions vs Trump's campaign?

I think Clinton is a horrible person and an ass. I think Trump is a horrible person and an ass. That says nothing about their political careers or whatever ideology they have. But to me, it shows that if you stand two jackasses side by side I'm having a hard time telling them apart. But I can clearly see that one got slapped on the nose and one got bull whipped. Figuratively speaking, of course.

posted by geeblock

It can be debated if it’s a crime or not but what am I missing? He said multiple times that he did it and I it was a “legal expense “. I really don’t think he denied it ever. Even Jmog said of course he did it which is what most rational people believe. It’s perfectly fine to say it’s a political which hunt, but to say he didn’t do exactly what they said he did I just stupid. 

You went from "he bragged about it" to "he hasn't denied it". That's 2 vastly different claims.

Above they are asking you for a link showing he bragged about doing it since you stated he did.

burn it all down. both sides are dumbfucks. libertarians say the best rhetoric, then wheel out a "there are no genders" retard. hopefully bobby jr wins and the CIA does another round of target practice then we can all get really wierd. 

Just as fucked up as Trump selling signatured Bibles, but this is an official item that The State is selling. I can't believe they're doing this.

https://www.whitehousegiftshop.com/The-Indictment-of-President-Donald-J-Trump-Coin-p/trump-indictment.htm

posted by CenterBHSFan

Just as fucked up as Trump selling signatured Bibles, but this is an official item that The State is selling. I can't believe they're doing this.

https://www.whitehousegiftshop.com/The-Indictment-of-President-Donald-J-Trump-Coin-p/trump-indictment.htm

To be fair, The White House Gift Shop hasn't been connected to the government at all in a few decades and is privately owned company.

posted by j_crazy

burn it all down. both sides are dumbfucks. libertarians say the best rhetoric, then wheel out a "there are no genders" retard. hopefully bobby jr wins and the CIA does another round of target practice then we can all get really wierd. 

LOL, I'm going to have to look at his [hers? theirs? its?] policies before deciding, but looks like I could be writing in Tulsi or Haley.

So long as neither major clown party gets my vote.

posted by gut

LOL, I'm going to have to look at his [hers? theirs? its?] policies before deciding, but looks like I could be writing in Tulsi or Haley.

So long as neither major clown party gets my vote.

Neither major clown party getting my vote is about as big of a given as there is. Maybe if -- one day in the eventual future -- one of them actually takes steps back towards being semi-useful instead of being a collection of overgrown teens looking for social media clout by really getting the other side good with a Tiernan-level zinger, that will change. But since it's not exactly going in that direction, that day isn't now and likely won't be in the near future.

posted by jmog

You went from "he bragged about it" to "he hasn't denied it". That's 2 vastly different claims.

Above they are asking you for a link showing he bragged about doing it since you stated he did.

We can debate if it was “bragging “ but six years ago along with 20 times in last two weeks he said it was fine and that he did it let’s not be stupid I thought we finally agreed on something and u still try to argue lol 

posted by jmog

To be fair, The White House Gift Shop hasn't been connected to the government at all in a few decades and is privately owned company.

Gotcha!

posted by Heretic

Neither major clown party getting my vote is about as big of a given as there is. Maybe if -- one day in the eventual future -- one of them actually takes steps back towards being semi-useful instead of being a collection of overgrown teens looking for social media clout by really getting the other side good with a Tiernan-level zinger, that will change. But since it's not exactly going in that direction, that day isn't now and likely won't be in the near future.

It is my hope that that day will begin after the next four years. As in, immediately. Hopefully politicians will be sick of this shit, along with all of their constituents.

posted by geeblock

We can debate if it was “bragging “ but six years ago along with 20 times in last two weeks he said it was fine and that he did it let’s not be stupid I thought we finally agreed on something and u still try to argue lol 

Yes, he admitted to the NDA and that's not illegal.  LOL try to pay attention.

posted by CenterBHSFan

It is my hope that that day will begin after the next four years. As in, immediately. Hopefully politicians will be sick of this shit, along with all of their constituents.

It's all about re-election and control.  Until voters start holding them accountable, nothing will change.

Still pretty amazing how we've gotten to the point where it's now almost all about investigating the other party, blaming the other party for all the problems, and "saving Democracy" while actually damaging it....and doing less and less real work.

Saw some of this morning's hearings on Fauci, and it was all the usual suspects with their typical nauseating partisan grandstanding.  Fauci is likely a sociopath with a god complex, but I do think he did everything with people's safety at heart to the best of his ability.  I think he made some horrible decisions and covered up some of that, but I don't think there was any ill intent.  This hearing was a giant waste of time, but then what else do any of them do?

If ever there was a year for 3rd parties....but I'll be shocked if they get 15%, combined.

posted by gut

Yes, he admitted to the NDA and that's not illegal.  LOL try to pay attention.

I asked if u felt he committed a crime or not. U answered the question which is all I asked. It’s really yes or no question. NDA’s certainly aren’t illegal. Did he say anything about how he paid for the nda or no? Like I said I really don’t care and I’m not trying to piss Justin off and definitely don’t want o argue but it certainly can be an argument if it should have ever been brought to court, most likely no, but I don’t think it’s in question even by his own words that it was illegally paid for. I’ll yield my time 

posted by CenterBHSFan

It is my hope that that day will begin after the next four years. As in, immediately. Hopefully politicians will be sick of this shit, along with all of their constituents.

Maybe to a degree? When Trump is out of the game (ie: deceased, since that dude's never shutting up about stuff while alive), I can see the MAGA movement collapsing due to how its main followers like MTG might have his abrasive combativeness, but are very lacking in charisma and I tend to get the idea that every little bit of respect/status they have among their fellow officeholders is due to Trump's presence. When daddy's still around, can't be ignoring his most faithful acolytes!

But it seems like a lot of big-time progs are younger people who have large fanbases of young folks, so it's hard to see them fading away at any time in the near future. 

And, as I think has been mentioned here many times before, the way so many districts are designed nowadays means that so many of them are essentially in the bag for a particular party, so it makes it real tough to get rid of so many of these idiots.

And even worse, whether you call it intentional blindness or pure stupidity, it seems like a lot of the crazier reps have large fanbases of people who love using terms like "firebrand" and "a fighter" to describe them. Never mind how they never actually accomplish anything of note, the fact they'll stand up and yell shit at their opponents and be disruptive to anything they're part of is good enough for their fans.

Guess that's my Daily Dose of Pessimism. Nothing will ever improve; we're all fucked. Yay...

posted by geeblock

Rough week for the lock her up crowd lol  

The political persecution and financial assassination attempts on Trump have been going on for years.  Everyone is used to it. 

posted by gut

Expired misdemeanors.  So, even more so.  

Also, Bragg didn't prove or charge the predicate crime, which he claimed he wasn't required to do.  And so the jury didn't have to agree or rule on what that felony was that he tried to cover up with the accounting, just that a crime was committed (and don't know if it's true, but apparently were given a menu of choices.).  And that strikes me as very novel, because for example if you bring 10 charges, the jury has to agree unanimously on at least one charge for a conviction.  And that's probably why Bragg did it the way he did, because the jury can't otherwise say "you think he's guilty of this, and I think he's guilty of that, so he's guilty".

Without that, there is no felony, and even the business records charge reverts to a misdemeanor, which was past the statute of limitations.  So there literally would be no case.

And there was no cover up in accounting at all.  Any payments to Cohen were coded the exact same way as all other payments to attorneys and law firms for the past 30 years, per the testimony of the controller and the bookkeeper, and 1099's were issued.  You have a perfectly legal NDA, and properly recorded payments related thereto.  Bizarro world how the charges could even be manufactured.  Of course, you had Biden's #3 man at the Department of Justice leave DoJ, go to Bragg's office, and magically the charges were concocted and it was off to the races with a perfectly compliant judge and a jury of his non-peers.  The choreography has been spot on.