Protests, Riots, Police trashiness cont.

jmog

Senior Member

Wed, Aug 26, 2020 3:52 PM
posted by gut

So is it time to ban open carry?  It doesn't matter if this dumbass in Kenosha is representative or not, all these idiots showing up to counter-protest with AR-15's are just deliberately trying to provoke people. 

Pretty volatile mix. I don't really see the need for open carry in public spaces.  If you want to sit on your porch holding a shotgun, go ahead.  But leave the gun at home when you go to Walmart.

No issue with concealed carry.

I don’t know about banning open carry, as I am a “shall not be infringed” believer.


With that said you are right, as a responsible gun owner I would NEVER show up to an “anti-protest” open carrying. It is just asking for trouble. No responsible gun owner goes OUT while carrying and LOOKS for trouble.  


It is for defense only, as soon as you go looking for trouble you are on “offense”.


jmog

Senior Member

Wed, Aug 26, 2020 3:55 PM

If the kid was 17 then he wasn’t owning/carrying legally. I know of no state that allows anyone under 18 to own a rifle and no one under 21 can own a handgun. 


I do believe Trump is trying to get the rifle age to 21 as well.


Either way, 17 it is illegally owned/obtained. 

iclfan2

Reppin' the 330/216/843

Wed, Aug 26, 2020 3:58 PM
posted by gut

So is it time to ban open carry?  It doesn't matter if this dumbass in Kenosha is representative or not, all these idiots showing up to counter-protest with AR-15's are just deliberately trying to provoke people.  

No. If a real business owner wants to guard his shit, more power to them. This person was 17 and did not have a business there or live there, and is at least going to get in trouble for crossing state lines with a weapon and not legally even being allowed to own one, on top of anything for shooting the other idiots. 

That said, if leadership would do its job, you wouldn't need anyone defending their property anyway. Letting these riots occur is ridiculous. Put out a curfew, call in the guard, and remove anyone that is out there forcefully. 

justincredible

Honorable Admin

Wed, Aug 26, 2020 4:06 PM

The kid was arrested for murder, apparently.

geeblock

Member

Wed, Aug 26, 2020 4:21 PM

The Milwaukee bucks are boycotting the game today 

gut

Senior Member

Wed, Aug 26, 2020 4:29 PM
posted by iclfan2

No. If a real business owner wants to guard his shit, more power to them. This person was 17 and did not have a business there or live there, and is at least going to get in trouble for crossing state lines with a weapon and not legally even being allowed to own one, on top of anything for shooting the other idiots.

Sure, he broke the law.  But it's allowing open carry that created the opportunity for this to happen.  Maybe if cops did their job they would have checked him and prevented this.  Don't think that really changes the point I'm making.

As for businesses, that's private property.  You can defend your store, but a business is not your home and you don't have nearly the same protections in the use of deadly force.  Otherwise, I say the same thing.  You want to sit in your store with an AR-15, go right ahead.  But not on the public sidewalk, or street.

Or maybe restrict open carry to handguns.  I can see the logic behind that, as a deterrent.  Guessing 99% of owners don't open carry a rifle as part of their regular daily routine.

gut

Senior Member

Wed, Aug 26, 2020 4:34 PM
posted by justincredible

The kid was arrested for murder, apparently.

I still haven't figured out if there were two shooters.  Story I read on the 17-yr old is he straight-up shot two people and was heard saying "I just killed a guy".  Then there's a story about a guy being chased, falling, and firing several shots randomly to get people off him.  No idea if that's all the same story, or if it's two events with the same guy, or two different guys.

geeblock

Member

Wed, Aug 26, 2020 4:36 PM
posted by gut

I still haven't figured out if there were two shooters.  Story I read on the 17-yr old is he straight-up shot two people and was heard saying "I just killed a guy".  Then there's a story about a guy being chased, falling, and firing several shots randomly to get people off him.  No idea if that's all the same story, or if it's two events with the same guy, or two different guys.

Seems like it was the same guy to me. People tried to detain a guy with a gun after he shot someone and he shot some of them from what I am piecing tog


iclfan2

Reppin' the 330/216/843

Wed, Aug 26, 2020 4:40 PM

If you search elijahriot on twitter there is video of all of it, seems to be same guy. First shooting was at the car shop where a guy was running at him (after throwing something on fire at him) and he shot him. Then he called 911 and was walking to turn himself in (supposedly). Then he was attacked from behind, hit in head with skateboard who he shot, then a guy approached with a pistol and got his arm practically blown off. Also why 1st degree doesn’t seem like it will end up being final charge. 

geeblock

Member

Wed, Aug 26, 2020 4:40 PM

Is this the guy? (Ignore the commentary on the twitter post

Al Bundy

Senior Member

Wed, Aug 26, 2020 4:44 PM
posted by Fab4Runner

Is that what the 17 year old from IL was doing?

Clearly not. I was responding to open carry in general. BLM is going around terrorizing innocent businesses. Some families have worked decades or generations to build these. Law enforcement isn't allowed to do their job and defend these businesses. What are people supposed to do? I don't think that most people want their communities destroyed.

OSH

Kosh B'Gosh

Wed, Aug 26, 2020 4:46 PM
posted by Heretic


So, your close friend with an "in" is saying that something like five months after killing her and while seeing no end to the public backlash against them, the Louisville PD is trying a smear campaign against the deceased. The only part of this that is surprising is the part where it took them five months to decide to go that route.

I mean, from doing a bit of research, I've noticed that the "they did knock" part is a he said/she said sort of thing where they said they did, but no one from that area is exactly backing up that claim. And I read that Taylor had connections to one of the actual dealers they were going after and a car registered to her had been seen at their place...but nothing about her being a dealer and that a search of her place turned up nothing. So, it looks to me more like they're trying to cover up their fuck-up by putting as much of the blame on the person they killed as possible.

"She can't defend herself, but we can use that to defend ourselves!!! POINT TO US!!!!!"

How is the LPD running a smear campaign and where did I remotely hint at that? 

Additionally, it's not too often (if ever?) that any of the investigating/investigated parties come out during an investigation (if one is taking place OR has taken place) to reveal evidence one way or the other. Is it? So, if the LPD knew she was a dealer, they aren't coming out in public stating that while there's investigations ongoing -- past or present.

The New York Times even stated there was a knock during the "no-knock warrant." They wouldn't be the ones siding with LPD, would they? 

I'm not taking one side or the other -- except the side that I'd prefer people didn't die. But, after previous instances, the other thing I've come to understand is not to jump to conclusions when the whole story isn't known.

OSH

Kosh B'Gosh

Wed, Aug 26, 2020 4:50 PM
posted by gut

I still haven't figured out if there were two shooters.  Story I read on the 17-yr old is he straight-up shot two people and was heard saying "I just killed a guy".  Then there's a story about a guy being chased, falling, and firing several shots randomly to get people off him.  No idea if that's all the same story, or if it's two events with the same guy, or two different guys.

The videos are out there, plain as day. No question, the 17-year-old shot people. Also, no question, there was instances in which he was attacked: a) Molotov cocktail thrown at him; b) chased by a mob; c) hit by a skateboard; d) another armed man chasing/attacking him.

It's all the same guy. I've watched them all. I've seen the still pics. It is unclear to me on the timeline of events though. 

gut

Senior Member

Wed, Aug 26, 2020 5:04 PM
posted by iclfan2

Also why 1st degree doesn’t seem like it will end up being final charge. 

If they find evidence to support he's a white supremacist, combined with crossing statelines with an rifle....I could see that being enough for a jury with respect to intent and premeditation.

I don't know.  Even if someone threw something or hit him first, I think the DA is going to be able to show that he went there hoping to get assaulted so he could shoot someone in self-defense.  I think a lot of these asshats walking around with their AR's are hoping the same thing.  That would normally be a tough argument to make for the DA, but this kid had no reason to be there other than looking for trouble.

gut

Senior Member

Wed, Aug 26, 2020 5:17 PM
posted by Al Bundy

Law enforcement isn't allowed to do their job and defend these businesses. What are people supposed to do? I don't think that most people want their communities destroyed.

This growing unrest has been tolerated and enabled for at least 6 years, and now they have no hope of controlling this monster.  And the real problem is the only way you will ever eliminate bad shootings is to disarm police. Because there is no other solution that will prevent "wrongful death by cop".  Can't put that toothpaste back in the tube - the mob is demanding change and results that aren't possible.

iclfan2

Reppin' the 330/216/843

Wed, Aug 26, 2020 5:26 PM
posted by gut

If they find evidence to support he's a white supremacist, combined with crossing statelines with an rifle....I could see that being enough for a jury with respect to intent and premeditation.

I don't know.  Even if someone threw something or hit him first, I think the DA is going to be able to show that he went there hoping to get assaulted so he could shoot someone in self-defense.  I think a lot of these asshats walking around with their AR's are hoping the same thing.  That would normally be a tough argument to make for the DA, but this kid had no reason to be there other than looking for trouble.

He was actually interviewed by a guy prior to all of this. We was with a group of people (of all races) who said they were there to protect property but were with the rioters as long as they were fucking with the government. Doesn’t mean much, but white supremacy narrative always comes out during these things and is rarely accurate. 

gut

Senior Member

Wed, Aug 26, 2020 8:09 PM
posted by iclfan2

He was actually interviewed by a guy prior to all of this. We was with a group of people (of all races) who said they were there to protect property but were with the rioters as long as they were fucking with the government.

I don't know, but I don't think vigilantism is a good defense.  Seems like a dumb kid that thought he'd play dress up and pretend to be a first responder.

Saw a video of that interview with him standing in front of a building that got torched the night before and he was "there to protect it".  Talk about a day late and a dollar short!

iclfan2

Reppin' the 330/216/843

Wed, Aug 26, 2020 8:16 PM
posted by gut

I don't know, but I don't think vigilantism is a good defense.  Seems like a dumb kid that thought he'd play dress up and pretend to be a first responder.

Saw a video of that interview with him standing in front of a building that got torched the night before and he was "there to protect it".  Talk about a day late and a dollar short!

I mean sure ok. He’s still alive and the other dumb fucks aren’t. There are either laws or there aren’t. Stop the rioting or idiots die. Pretty simple. 


Dr Winston O'Boogie

Senior Member

Wed, Aug 26, 2020 8:27 PM
posted by SportsAndLady

Hahahahahahaha


Hahahahahahahahahahahaha


Wait wait wait



Hahahahahahahahahaha


iclfan2

Reppin' the 330/216/843

Wed, Aug 26, 2020 8:29 PM

So where do we go from here? Admitted knife in his possession?

gut

Senior Member

Wed, Aug 26, 2020 8:36 PM
posted by iclfan2

So where do we go from here? Admitted knife in his possession?

So the officer planted the knife AND tricked Blake into admitting having a knife?  This guy is good....

iclfan2

Reppin' the 330/216/843

Wed, Aug 26, 2020 8:40 PM
posted by gut
So the officer planted the knife AND tricked Blake into admitting having a knife?  This guy is good....



friendfromlowry

Senior Member

Wed, Aug 26, 2020 9:42 PM
posted by iclfan2

So where do we go from here? Admitted knife in his possession?

Nothing changes, IMO. People have made up their mind one way or another. 


iclfan2

Reppin' the 330/216/843

Wed, Aug 26, 2020 9:43 PM

It’s almost like waiting a day or two might get some clarification. Instead, businesses burned to the ground, idiots dead, and others injured for absolutely nothing. Dumb asses. Oh and the NBA looks like fools.

Al Bundy

Senior Member

Wed, Aug 26, 2020 9:44 PM
posted by iclfan2

It’s almost like waiting a day or two might get some clarification. Instead, businesses burned to the ground, idiots dead, and others injured for absolutely nothing. Dumb asses. Oh and the NBA looks like fools.

Two MLB games boycotted also.