Watching the video, I would think it was the neck up. I don’t think his actions justified a life sentence though 

posted by SportsAndLady

This. These guys don’t see it because they all think the same way.

I don't think that's true.  An unjustified shooting is horrible.  It's fair to wait on the facts. As compelling as video may be, the complete story and context are not yet known by most of us. 

posted by geeblock

I do see what S and L is saying. Hey it’s not justified but here’s his criminal record and here’s an article about a person who got back in their car and got a gun ect...

Well, S&L hasn't realized this guy is a rapist and woman beater yet....Again, I think we're capable of talking about a dumbass cop and a dumbass criminal at the same time.

The video is very informative on how to get shot by police.  And, apparently, he had already done something to warrant being tazed.  If a cop is pointing a gun at you, and you reach for something, 9 out of 10 cops will shoot you.  I don't know how this is still confusing.

He IS culpable in escalating the situation. He'd be alive if he hadn't reached into his car.  That's a fact.  And he most likely resisted arrest because of the fact there was a warrant for his arrest.  Don't engage in the S&L bullshit narrative that this guy "got what he deserved".  The only person in this thread that has said that is S&L.

posted by iclfan2

🧐... I guess ruining their lives is cool. White protestors burning down black owned businesses in the name of BLM

When virtue signaling, it's the thought that counts....

posted by gut

Well, S&L hasn't realized this guy is a rapist and woman beater yet....Again, I think we're capable of talking about a dumbass cop and a dumbass criminal at the same time.

The video is very informative on how to get shot by police.  And, apparently, he had already done something to warrant being tazed.  If a cop is pointing a gun at you, and you reach for something, 9 out of 10 cops will shoot you.  I don't know how this is still confusing.

He IS culpable in escalating the situation. He'd be alive if he hadn't reached into his car.  That's a fact.  And he most likely resisted arrest because of the fact there was a warrant for his arrest.  Don't engage in the S&L bullshit narrative that this guy "got what he deserved".  The only person in this thread that has said that is S&L.

We don’t know that he did anything wrong. Last week a group of black kids were threatened by a homeless man with a knife. The manager of the bw3 next door called the cops and when the cops showed up they held the black teens at gunpoint for 15 minutes while all the white people who had been the ones who callled the cops pleaded with them to put the guns down and that the kids were the victims. The cops didn’t care and continued to hold the kids at gun point for an extended period of time and handcuff them. So maybe this guy who apparently was breaking up a fight felt like the cops had no reason to detain him? There is no evidence that they had identified him and had any idea he had a warrant. I did read it was possible that he was barred from that residence due to a restraining order but I’m still gathering facts. Either way if someone has paid their debt to society I see no point in bringing it up unless it was a crime against police or a violent robbery. 

posted by geeblock

Im reading lots of reports there were no body cams by any of the police officers. 

I don't think any cops in Kenosha do.  I believe the union resisted that and won.

And it kind of looks like this is a case where the body cam might have helped the cop.  All we have is that 30 second video - can't hear the cops, and can't see what transpired beforehand.  That body cam could literally have made the difference between homicide and justified.

Let's recap - he threatened a cop with a knife, got tazered, then continued to refuse orders and went and reached into his car with cops pointing guns at him yelling to show his hands....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/skbaer/black-teens-detained-gunpoint-santa-clarita

Link to story on teens

posted by geeblock

We don’t know that he did anything wrong.

There was a warrant for his arrest.  The guy who took the video said cops kept telling him to drop the knife (but said he never saw one).  He was also tazered.

So, yeah, we know he did something wrong.  Stop with the bullshit false narratives and deal in facts.

If you want to influence people and change minds, don't make martyrs out of rapists and woman beaters who got shot resisting arrest.

posted by gut

There was a warrant for his arrest.  The guy who took the video said cops kept telling him to drop the knife (but said he never saw one).  He was also tazered.

So, yeah, we know he did something wrong.  Stop with the bullshit false narratives and deal in facts.

If you want to influence people and change minds, don't make martyrs out of rapists and woman beaters who got shot resisting arrest.

We don’t know he did anything on this day. We don’t know they knew about the warrant. Aka when mike brown was killed people think the cops knew about the store incident. They didn’t. The whole thing started because mike was walking in the street and when the cop rode by again he was still walking in the street. It escalated from there. Most people still think it had to do with a store robbery. The cops didn’t find out about that until the next day. I haven’t seen anything about the guy having a knife. Everything I read says he was breaking up a fight. It is possible he was known to the cops and was known to have a warrant but that hasn’t been stated yet. 

posted by geeblock

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/skbaer/black-teens-detained-gunpoint-santa-clarita

Link to story on teens

I saw this story when this happened.  I fail to see how this has anything to do with the discussion at hand other than a long winded way of saying "we don't know if he did anything," which we are slowly starting to learn is untrue. 

posted by gut

I don't think any cops in Kenosha do.  I believe the union resisted that and won.

And it kind of looks like this is a case where the body cam might have helped the cop.  All we have is that 30 second video - can't hear the cops, and can't see what transpired beforehand.  That body cam could literally have made the difference between homicide and justified.

Let's recap - he threatened a cop with a knife, got tazered, then continued to refuse orders and went and reached into his car with cops pointing guns at him yelling to show his hands....

And just for clarification this is exactly justifying his killing by definition. 

posted by like_that

I saw this story when this happened.  I fail to see how this has anything to do with the discussion at hand other than a long winded way of saying "we don't know if he did anything," which we are slowly starting to learn is untrue. 

It has to do with it because tons of times cops show up and arrest the black person who is the one who callled them or who was the victim. Or some black person who had nothing to do with it. It just happened to a black couple who called the cops on looters. This could possibly explain why he reacted the way he did. I agree we don’t know what happened. Where did we see he had a knife?

posted by geeblock

We don’t know he did anything on this day. We don’t know they knew about the warrant. Aka when mike brown was killed people think the cops knew about the store incident. They didn’t. The whole thing started because mike was walking in the street and when the cop rode by again he was still walking in the street. It escalated from there. Most people still think it had to do with a store robbery. The cops didn’t find out about that until the next day. I haven’t seen anything about the guy having a knife. Everything I read says he was breaking up a fight. It is possible he was known to the cops and was known to have a warrant but that hasn’t been stated yet.

Sure.  I can play that game, too - we also don't really know the shooting wasn't justified. The fact is there WAS a warrant, for sexual assault and domestic abuse.  The fact is he WAS tazed.  Try being objective and look at the facts, rather than dismissing them because they refute the narrative you're pushing.

LOL, after I mention false narratives you actually bring up Mike Brown?  GTFO

posted by geeblock

It has to do with it because tons of times cops show up and arrest the black person who is the one who callled them or who was the victim. Or some black person who had nothing to do with it. It just happened to a black couple who called the cops on looters. This could possibly explain why he reacted the way he did. I agree we don’t know what happened. Where did we see he had a knife?

You think you get it but you really don't.

The guy who recorded the video said he heard cops yelling "drop the knife", repeatedly.  He also said he never saw a knife.  I thought I already said that.  Does no one here actually read?

https://www.wisn.com/article/he-wasnt-aggressive-man-who-recorded-viral-video-of-kenosha-police-shooting/33725162

Do you have reading comprehension? He said there was no knife and guy wasn’t being aggressive. 

There is another angle of police trying to take him down prior to him getting into the car.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoz0aDZetFg

Gblock, whether he thought he did nothing wrong, walking away from police with guns drawn on you is fucking stupid. Once again that doesn’t mean he should have died, but you’re trying to paint a picture of this that doesn’t exist.

posted by geeblock

And just for clarification this is exactly justifying his killing by definition. 

If it's true, it WOULD be justified.  You agree, and I think most people would.  But you're attributing speculation/conjecture as something I said as fact.  Do you really struggle with reading comprehension that much, or was that an intentional misstatement?

I'm really getting irritated at your dishonest arguments.  As I've already said, such tactics alienate people.  But that is the race-baiting game, which you seem to be fairly good at.

posted by geeblock

It has to do with it because tons of times cops show up and arrest the black person who is the one who callled them or who was the victim. Or some black person who had nothing to do with it. It just happened to a black couple who called the cops on looters. This could possibly explain why he reacted the way he did. I agree we don’t know what happened. Where did we see he had a knife?

It's a logical fallacy.  If you are bringing up other anecdotal events, then you can't downplay cops reacting in a certain way based on certain events (i.e. a cop being trigger happy, because of the current climate or some because cops have been shot and killed recently).  You certainly can't downplay he had an arrest warrant and a previous criminal record.  Again, I am just applying your logic. So far that has been reported:

-Video where you can hear the cops command him to drop the knife (you're right, there is no confirmation of a knife yet).

-A video of another angle shows the cops struggling with the man and failing to subdue him with the taser prior to him getting shot

-He was walking away from cops with guns on him.

It will be hard to justify shooting him in the back 7 times, especially since they completely fucked up getting him under control, but it's not hard to see the argument that if he didn't resist, he most likely would be alive.  These aren't mutually exclusive arguments.

posted by gut

You think you get it but you really don't.

The guy who recorded the video said he heard cops yelling "drop the knife", repeatedly.  He also said he never saw a knife.  I thought I already said that.  Does no one here actually read?

God, you’re such an insufferable know-it-all douchebag . I genuinely can’t for the life of me understand how in your super sized brain you’re still trying to say you’re not justifying the shooting..LOL

You’re the worst kind of person, IMO. You refuse to admit who you really are. Sad, really

posted by gut

If it's true, it WOULD be justified.  You agree, and I think most people would.  But you're attributing speculation/conjecture as something I said as fact.  Do you really struggle with reading comprehension, or is that intentional.

I'm really getting irritated at your dishonest arguments.  As I've already said, such tactics alienate people.  But that is the race-baiting game, which you seem to be fairly good at.

What was dishonest? I’m confused. Where did I race bait? Jesus Christ 

posted by geeblock

https://www.wisn.com/article/he-wasnt-aggressive-man-who-recorded-viral-video-of-kenosha-police-shooting/33725162

Do you have reading comprehension? He said there was no knife and guy wasn’t being aggressive. 

"They were telling him to drop the knife. I didn't see a knife"

Exactly what I said.  LEARN TO FUCKING READ.

posted by like_that

It's a logical fallacy.  If you are bringing up other anecdotal events, then you can't downplay cops reacting in a certain way based on certain events (i.e. a cop being trigger happy, because of the current climate or some because cops have been shot and killed recently).  You certainly can't downplay he had an arrest warrant and a previous criminal record.  Again, I am just applying your logic So far that has been reported:

-Video where you can hear the cops command him to drop the knife (you're right, there is no confirmation of a knife yet).

-A video of another angle shows the cops struggling with the man and failing to subdue him with the tazer prior to him getting shot

-He was walking away from cops with guns on him.

It will be hard to justify shooting him in the back 7 times, especially since they completely fucked up getting him under control, but it's not hard to see the argument that if he didn't resist, he most likely would be alive.  These aren't mutually exclusive arguments.

I didn’t say they were, but we don’t know they knew about his record at this point. I’m 1000% sure if he had a knife or a weapon there would be a press conference showing it

posted by gut

"They were telling him to drop the knife. I didn't see a knife"

Exactly what I said.  LEARN TO FUCKING READ.

Looks like it was his phone 

posted by geeblock

What was dishonest? I’m confused. Where did I race bait? Jesus Christ 

Deliberately misattributing things I said?  Ignoring other things I said?  Posting an article link that I alluded to, and pretending like it refutes what I posted?

You're either an abject moron or a racebaiter. 

posted by geeblock

Looks like it was his phone 

But were the cops telling him to drop the knife, according to an eyewitness?

JFC you're hopeless.