posted by like_that

Are you recommending that there shouldn't be consequences for some of these, or people should not go to jail/be arrested for it?  I can agree with the latter, but I can't agree with the former.  

The keyword in this question for those who will get easily butthurt is "some."  Obviously looking at a bbgun or any product at Walmart is not malicious.  I actually don't give a fuck if you sell shit either (even if it is meth). Also, what is the Walmart bbgun story?  I haven't seen it. 

You should not be killed by police for selling cigarettes, yes

posted by SportsAndLady

You should not be killed by police for selling cigarettes, yes

No shit.

posted by geeblock

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cincinnati.com/amp/2787871002

Store video. 

Customer lies and says he pointed the gun at people ( video shows he did not and he later recanted) at 8:18. At 8:27 the cops shot him with no verbal warning while he was talking on his phone. 

Later officer says after being acquitted that he wouldn’t change a thing about the incident. 

I don't see how anyone would not agree that this is a horrible tragedy or that the officer(s) involved have no place in the force if they cannot differentiate a real from perceived threat.  

I have no problem understanding the passion for change in police procedures, training, hiring, etc to prevent a story like this from happening.  What I don't agree with is the widespread claim that police are killing black citizens in high numbers.  It simply does not happen.  I think a lot of people are supportive of improving police forces to lower the incidence of unfair policing to black citizens (or wherever else it is happening).  I also think it is a fair question from the outside looking in to ask why there is not the same level of outrage in killings such as this one that happened just down the street from where I live:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/03/us/alabama-mall-sshooting/index.html

While there have been numerous protests in Hoover and Birmingham about George Floyd and other blacks killed by police, there has not been anything like that for his little boy.  Why the collective outrage for one and not the other.  That is the issue I cannot understand.  That question does not make me a racist.  It is the same question a kid would have looking at the same set of circumstances.  

A black youth has a far higher chance of being killed by stray gunfire from black males than he or she does from the police.  It doesn't mean the police issue is not important.  It's not an either/or question.  

posted by geeblock

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cincinnati.com/amp/2787871002

Store video. 

Customer lies and says he pointed the gun at people ( video shows he did not and he later recanted) at 8:18. At 8:27 the cops shot him with no verbal warning while he was talking on his phone. 

Later officer says after being acquitted that he wouldn’t change a thing about the incident. 

I do recall this now.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

I don't see how anyone would not agree that this is a horrible tragedy or that the officer(s) involved have no place in the force if they cannot differentiate a real from perceived threat.  

I have no problem understanding the passion for change in police procedures, training, hiring, etc to prevent a story like this from happening.  What I don't agree with is the widespread claim that police are killing black citizens in high numbers.  It simply does not happen.  I think a lot of people are supportive of improving police forces to lower the incidence of unfair policing to black citizens (or wherever else it is happening).  I also think it is a fair question from the outside looking in to ask why there is not the same level of outrage in killings such as this one that happened just down the street from where I live:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/03/us/alabama-mall-sshooting/index.html

While there have been numerous protests in Hoover and Birmingham about George Floyd and other blacks killed by police, there has not been anything like that for his little boy.  Why the collective outrage for one and not the other.  That is the issue I cannot understand.  That question does not make me a racist.  It is the same question a kid would have looking at the same set of circumstances.  

A black youth has a far higher chance of being killed by stray gunfire from black males than he or she does from the police.  It doesn't mean the police issue is not important.  It's not an either/or question.  

First off, police have power over us and we pay them to serve and protect.  We Should hold them to a higher standard than criminals. Crime has been happening in Chicago since the days of al Capone. What good would the outrage do? Do criminals listen to protests? What makes you hold on to this idea that black people aren’t outraged? Do you talk to any? Where are you looking?  

When black people kill other black people their is outrage. It doesn’t get covered by the news. Also the people get punished and go to jail for 50-100 years. This tends to quell the outrage some.

But not only is the family of the person who was killed out through the ringer, so is the family of the person who did the killing. These situation ruin families for generations. Believe me no one is more upset about it than black people. What voice to you imagine they have tho? Also other black people are upset because we know that a section of white people will take a victory lap every time it happens and say look they are violent animals and deserve what they get from police. That’s the best explanation I can give you. I have given examples of activities and groups that rally almost every single weekend but for some reason you want to hold onto the idea that black people don’t care. 

Black people have been talking about police brutality since 1950.. we are not falling victim to the media. White people are now having it shoved in their face and you could make the case that media shines a light on it but it is very old news to us so it’s hilarious for someone to tell me that the media is fooling me. 99 percent of the messed up stuff that happens to black people doesn't make the news or get reported. I recently read and article by a lawyer who documented tons of cases where officers were making bs arrests on black people within 30 min of their shift being over so that then they would get 2 hours of paper work and 2 hours of overtime. Imagine ruining peoples lives for an extra 1000$ a week. This is the scenario we talk about in our community and we all know people that it happens to. It also doesn’t make the news. 

 This cop got a paid year vacation and is still working. Also this video at Walmart didn’t get that much outrage really. 

The killer in that mall shooting was arrested in 2 days FYI he will go to jail for the rest of his life 

Check out what the pastor had to say about black lives matter at a vigil held for the boy 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wvtm13.com/amp/article/pastor-shares-powerful-message-at-vigil-for-royta-giles-jr-in-bessemer/33264045

posted by geeblock

First off, police have power over us and we pay them to serve and protect.  We Should hold them to a higher standard than criminals. Crime has been happening in Chicago since the days of al Capone. What good would the outrage do? Do criminals listen to protests? What makes you hold on to this idea that black people aren’t outraged? Do you talk to any? Where are you looking?  

When black people kill other black people their is outrage. It doesn’t get covered by the news. Also the people get punished and go to jail for 50-100 years. This tends to quell the outrage some.

But not only is the family of the person who was killed out through the ringer, so is the family of the person who did the killing. These situation ruin families for generations. Believe me no one is more upset about it than black people. What voice to you imagine they have tho? Also other black people are upset because we know that a section of white people will take a victory lap every time it happens and say look they are violent animals and deserve what they get from police. That’s the best explanation I can give you. I have given examples of activities and groups that rally almost every single weekend but for some reason you want to hold onto the idea that black people don’t care. 

Black people have been talking about police brutality since 1950.. we are not falling victim to the media. White people are now having it shoved in their face and you could make the case that media shines a light on it but it is very old news to us so it’s hilarious for someone to tell me that the media is fooling me. 99 percent of the messed up stuff that happens to black people doesn't make the news or get reported. I recently read and article by a lawyer who documented tons of cases where officers were making bs arrests on black people within 30 min of their shift being over so that then they would get 2 hours of paper work and 2 hours of overtime. Imagine ruining peoples lives for an extra 1000$ a week. This is the scenario we talk about in our community and we all know people that it happens to. It also doesn’t make the news. 

 This cop got a paid year vacation and is still working. Also this video at Walmart didn’t get that much outrage really. 

I see all of your points.  You're helping me to understand what I have seen as a disconnect.  I don't think that black people don't care about violence in their community.  I guess it's the inevitable problem if an organization is going to call itself "Black Lives Matter" and yet it is comparatively quiet on a topic that affects far more black lives than the police.  

That all said, you make good points.  Plus you have first hand experience that I don't.  It seems like there is a lot about the police that white people don't see or experience.  I believe that.  

posted by SportsAndLady

You should not be killed by police for selling cigarettes, yes

No shit Sherlock. You say things like it is some profound statement when literally no one believes you should be killed for selling cigarettes.

posted by jmog

No shit Sherlock. You say things like it is some profound statement when literally no one believes you should be killed for selling cigarettes.

According to the Eric Garner killing, apparently literally someone believed that.

posted by Heretic

According to the Eric Garner killing, apparently literally someone believed that.

The State will murder you for minor offenses, yes.

posted by geeblock

My friend described his current Chicago experience 

They just had a real nice shoot 'em up on the bridge at North Wabash and the Chicago River .....very near Michigan Ave.  If this is where they are now playing bang, bang, you can kiss the downtown goodbye until the jackass mayor is removed from office and somebody gets control of that city.

posted by geeblock

Yea selling cd’s, selling cigarettes, broken tailights, fake 20$ bills, looking at a bbgun at Walmart, jaywalking  ..man dangerous

Walk a mile in their shoes ........hell walk 3 blocks with them.

posted by QuakerOats

Walk a mile in their shoes ........hell walk 3 blocks with them.

I support good police and agree it’s a tough job. However it’s not the most dangerous job there is. No one is forcing them to join the police force. Around here it’s mostly 8 cops showing up for a broken tailight or a marked lane violation. 

Not including accidents 48 cops were killled in 2019. 40 by white people, 7 by black and 1 by Asian according to fbi. 89 total police died on duty in 2019 

Cop isn’t in the top 10 most dangerous jobs 

posted by geeblock

Not including accidents 48 cops were killled in 2019. 40 by white people, 7 by black and 1 by Asian according to fbi. 89 total police died on duty in 2019 

Cop isn’t in the top 10 most dangerous jobs 

That's a really interesting perspective for you to have, considering that's roughly the number of wrongful deaths by cop each year.

posted by gut

That's a really interesting perspective for you to have, considering that's roughly the number of wrongful deaths by cop each year.

That’s not a perspective it’s what I read when I just google it cause I was wondering, but also I don’t compare the activities of criminals with the activities of cops if I was going to make some type of projection to those two things. I hold cops to a much higher standard than criminals 

posted by Heretic

According to the Eric Garner killing, apparently literally someone believed that.

We are talking people, not the state and someone making a terrible decision.

Literally no one thinks it’s right to kill someone for selling cigarettes.

That statement was just SnL being SnL.

posted by geeblock

Not including accidents 48 cops were killled in 2019. 40 by white people, 7 by black and 1 by Asian according to fbi. 89 total police died on duty in 2019 

Cop isn’t in the top 10 most dangerous jobs 

Did you really just say “only 48 cops killed by people last year, not that dangerous” while arguing that the 13 unarmed black men that were shot last year in the whole country is a major systemic racist problem?

Come on Geeblock...

posted by geeblock

I hold cops to a much higher standard than criminals

I would say protesting 50 accidental (mostly) deaths vs. being rather very dismissive of 50 (mostly) intentional deaths is quite the hypocritical stance.

Maybe try googling where "accidental death by cop" ranks among causes of death for black people.  Do you think 50 deaths per year would even crack the top 100?

posted by geeblock

Not including accidents 48 cops were killled in 2019. 40 by white people, 7 by black and 1 by Asian according to fbi. 89 total police died on duty in 2019 

Cop isn’t in the top 10 most dangerous jobs 

Coworkers husband got bit by someone he was trying to arrest. Guy I am treating is 50 and close to get a shoulder replacement due to someone trying to resist arrest causing multiple surgeries. 

I think your statement would be better worded it's not one of the top ten deadliest jobs but it sure as hell is dangerous. 

I also hold cops to a high standard.  Meanwhile, medical professionals cause 2500X as many wrongful deaths as cops.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html

I think the takeaway here is to defund healthcare.  It's so much easier to get away with murder if you're a doctor.  Racist cops are doing it wrong.

posted by gut

I would say protesting 50 accidental (mostly) deaths vs. being rather very dismissive of 50 (mostly) intentional deaths is quite the hypocritical stance.

Maybe try googling where "accidental death by cop" ranks among causes of death for black people.  Do you think 50 deaths per year would even crack the top 100?

If there was some way I could protest and stop crime I would. The deaths are the tip of the iceberg as far as the changes out justice system  needs and what the protest is about. No one thinks it’s about George Floyd personally. I find the real problem is crooked prosecutors personally. I support police and have friends that are police and I have played in poker tourneys, golf scrambles and many many raffles they benefited the police and I do so every chance I get. Doesn’t mean I can’t ask for police reform and hold them to the highest of standards.

 The 50 “accidental “deaths you speak of probably resulted in little or any jail time. The people who killed the cops are probably on death row right? 

posted by geeblock

 The 50 “accidental “deaths you speak of probably resulted in little or any jail time. The people who killed the cops are probably on death row right?

Don't you think there's a huge difference between accidental and intentional?  "Intent" is literally a factor in the charges.  When actual gross negligence is involved, officers have been convicted and done time.

Again, doctors kill far, far more people accidentally than cops.  That's important perspective.  50 deaths can be improved on, some, but that's actually a pretty good number out of millions of interactions.

posted by gut

Don't you think there's a huge difference between accidental and intentional?  "Intent" is literally a factor in the charges.  When actual gross negligence is involved, officers have been convicted and done time.

Again, doctors kill far, far more people accidentally than cops.  That's important perspective.  50 deaths can be improved on, some, but that's actually a pretty good number out of millions of interactions.

I think the policy in place is bad I’ll post an example where no one was killled but also no one was punished in what I think is a terrible situation of kids Shot playing with BB guns in a back yard