It can’t be zero percent they have to have some positive effect.. it’s not zero.. therefore I won’t complain about the mask it’s not a big deal.. 

posted by SportsAndLady

I don’t understand the extreme hyperboles you guys speak in

“Powerful force” lol wtf we said masks work, THATS ALL. Powerful force? Fuck off

America: Where all one has to do is strongly suggest to do one thing of, at most, minor inconvenience to most people to receive a laundry list of complaints, "well, actuallys", self-justifications for not doing it, dumpster diving the Net to find any sources that contradict the suggestion, sarcastically over-exaggerating the worth of it and so on.

The counter protesters just showed up at the statehouse to yell at the anti mask protesters.. it’s on abc live on Facebook it’s pretty funny 

posted by geeblock

It can’t be zero percent they have to have some positive effect.. it’s not zero.. therefore I won’t complain about the mask it’s not a big deal.. 

It would be interesting to see how effective some homemade cloth mask is vs. an N95 mask.  In fact, I think it's probably very important to know if a homemade cloth mask is providing sufficient protection.

Although surgical masks, which seem to be fairly available after a bit of a wait, must also be fairly effective or healthcare workers wouldn't use those, either.

I saw a number of masks for sale that had N95 filters that claimed to be easier to breathe in.  Seen a few of those, and apparently the filter does nothing to the air you exhale, so the mask is useless.

posted by gut

It would be interesting to see how effective some homemade cloth mask is vs. an N95 mask.  In fact, I think it's probably very important to know if a homemade cloth mask is providing sufficient protection.

Although surgical masks, which seem to be fairly available after a bit of a wait, must also be fairly effective or healthcare workers wouldn't use those, either.

I saw a number of masks for sale that had N95 filters that claimed to be easier to breathe in.  Seen a few of those, and apparently the filter does nothing to the air you exhale, so the mask is useless.

I refuse to believe it’s zero percent useless. People spit when they talk or cough or sneeze as well.. just common sense says to me that it’s not zero percent effective. 

posted by geeblock

I refuse to believe it’s zero percent useless. People spit when they talk or cough or sneeze as well.. just common sense says to me that it’s not zero percent effective. 

I was thinking more along the lines of if it was only 10-20% effective, then the false sense of security provided would probably contribute to MORE spread.  In other words, if you didn't have a surgical mask then you should avoid the situation (like a protest or game).

It might be fine for the store or a brief encounter.  But I wonder if cloth masks are really getting the job done at, say, a 3-hr backyard party.

I understand Fauci lying to prevent a shortage of masks for healthcare workers.  But if cloth masks were good, then why didn't they recommend cloth masks and then restrict medical mask sales to hospitals?

Found this article.  Says cloth masks help a lot.  Blocks pretty much all of a cough or sneeze, which would carry a heavier load of virus even if the mask doesn't block all the virus when breathing.

And with the data on lack of asymptomatic spread, then I'd guess a mask would probably reduce everyone to that level.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/do-cloth-face-masks-really-work-we-tested-them-in-the-lab/ar-BB16h1u1

posted by SportsAndLady

I don’t understand the extreme hyperboles you guys speak in

“Powerful force” lol wtf we said masks work, THATS ALL. Powerful force? Fuck off

Powerful force - that masks are going to somehow make the virus disappear in a shorter time than it would otherwise.  I'm not against wearing one. I just think this virus will run through the population in its own way regardless of what we do.  

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

 I just think this virus will run through the population in its own way regardless of what we do.  

As with lockdowns, slowing the spread is not wasted because you need to manage your hospital case load. 

If we have to delay elective surgeries (and some, such as heart procedures, really aren't all that "elective") then we're failing at managing the hospital load.

A bad flu season can stress the hospitals, as well.  So that vaccine better be ready come November or we're going to have a real problem during flu season.  That is, unless precautions for Covid severely limit the spread of the flu.

In some good news, the vaccine Cambridge is working on also promotes a T-cell response, which last much longer than antibodies (years, in some cases).

Question is if anyone has looked at T-cells in people who have recovered.  Why would a vaccine based on the dead virus RNA produce T-cells when the actual virus wouldn't?

Very curious as it's the first time I've seen T-cells mentioned anywhere.  Maybe because it wouldn't fit the pandemic porn agenda.

Yep, just find two studies that came out recently.  Some people may even have at least partial immunity from T-cells from different coronavirus infections (SARS, even potentially just the common cold)

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/t-cells-found-covid-19-patients-bode-well-long-term-immunity

posted by gut

In some good news, the vaccine Cambridge is working on also promotes a T-cell response, which last much longer than antibodies (years, in some cases).

Question is if anyone has looked at T-cells in people who have recovered.  Why would a vaccine based on the dead virus RNA produce T-cells when the actual virus wouldn't?

Very curious as it's the first time I've seen T-cells mentioned anywhere.  Maybe because it wouldn't fit the pandemic porn agenda.

Yep, just find two studies that came out recently.  Some people may even have at least partial immunity from T-cells from different coronavirus infections (SARS, even potentially just the common cold)

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/t-cells-found-covid-19-patients-bode-well-long-term-immunity

Heard Oxford and Astra Zeneca are working on that and there’s supposed to be an announcement Monday with positive results 

So probably should load up some travel stocks Monday morning lol

posted by SportsAndLady

Heard Oxford and Astra Zeneca are working on that and there’s supposed to be an announcement Monday with positive results 

So probably should load up some travel stocks Monday morning lol

Yeah, that's what I was referring to.  That's a joint effort - one vaccine, right?

Apparently, most of the other vaccines are focused on antibodies.  But I thought the Moderna candidate was also based on RNA, so it seems like maybe it should produce T-cells, also.  I guess it's kind of hard to look for the T-cells.  Except if the short-life of antibody protection turns out to be true, then those vaccines won't be sufficient.

LOL, if you had real balls you'd be loading up on cruise lines!

Also, Astrazeneca has said it could begin shipping doses as early as September. 

The US has ordered 400M doses (I guess in case Moderna fails), and Astrazeneca recently boosted production to 2 billion doses.  I don't know what the timing is on that, I would assume over 12 months.  Looks like 300M doses to the US and UK by the end of the year, which I'd guess would be enough for almost everyone over the age of 18.

Moderna plans for 500M doses per year, I believe beginning as early as October.  So if both candidates work, we could have the doses for everyone by the end of the year.

Bigger question is if our incompetent local/state/federal governments have a plan to administer that many vaccinations in a short time.

posted by gut

Yeah, that's what I was referring to.  That's a joint effort - one vaccine, right?

Apparently, most of the other vaccines are focused on antibodies.  But I thought the Moderna candidate was also based on RNA, so it seems like maybe it should produce T-cells, also.  I guess it's kind of hard to look for the T-cells.  Except if the short-life of antibody protection turns out to be true, then those vaccines won't be sufficient.

LOL, if you had real balls you'd be loading up on cruise lines!

Lol..I’ve bought and sold Norwegian so many times since April. It’s been a money maker.

I have a Norwegian call option right now but it’s down pretty significantly   

Airlines, cruises, casinos..I’ve bought em all. Just waiting for a breakout

And yeah that’s gotta be the same thing I’m thinking of. It’s nice to see that we’re pretty damn close to having some sort of vaccine for this.

Although, the closer they get, the louder the anti-vaxxers are being about how there’s no way they’d take a covid vaccine lol “they developed this vaccine in record time, you seriously expect me to put that in my body?” I’ve seen that about 5x on my Facebook feed the last few days. 

I cant wait for the current administration push a certain vaccine and then watch the media and dems go apeshit. 

posted by Heretic

America: Where all one has to do is strongly suggest to do one thing of, at most, minor inconvenience to most people to receive a laundry list of complaints, "well, actuallys", self-justifications for not doing it, dumpster diving the Net to find any sources that contradict the suggestion, sarcastically over-exaggerating the worth of it and so on.

That goes both ways, look at SnL and some of the other holier than thou’s on this thread.

posted by SportsAndLady

Although, the closer they get, the louder the anti-vaxxers are being about how there’s no way they’d take a covid vaccine lol “they developed this vaccine in record time, you seriously expect me to put that in my body?”

I've seen two different polls showing 30-40% saying they would not take the vaccine.  And that number is probably too high for herd immunity even if the vaccine were 100% effective.

I'll admit to having greater than 0 concern - I think Astrazeneca's is a dead variant injected into a monkey common cold virus.  Moderna, however, is some sort of replicated synthetic RNA which I think should pose 0 risk (other than most subjects reported mild side effects for a day or two after receiving the injection).

I feel like a few months after stage 3 trials started in early August should be sufficient to identify any risks.  It's just a vaccination and not like medications where damaging side effects might not show up for years.

It won't be my turn, anyway, until at least a few months after they start doing vaccinations.  I probably won't have any concerns at that point.

posted by SportsAndLady

And yeah that’s gotta be the same thing I’m thinking of. It’s nice to see that we’re pretty damn close to having some sort of vaccine for this.

Although, the closer they get, the louder the anti-vaxxers are being about how there’s no way they’d take a covid vaccine lol “they developed this vaccine in record time, you seriously expect me to put that in my body?” I’ve seen that about 5x on my Facebook feed the last few days. 

Sadly that’s the next big thing that will further ruin social media. It’ll be brutal...book it

posted by Spock

I cant wait for the current administration push a certain vaccine and then watch the media and dems go apeshit.

That will be interesting if a vaccination is available before the election.

If Moderna wins, I could see the media making a big deal about how it might not stimulate killer T-cells.  You have to remember the media has believed Trump will kill millions since taking office, so to them scaring people to delay the vaccination for a month or two would be a justifiable risk.

FWIW, Moderna hasn't looked at T-cells in its trials.  The CEO said he's not convinced it's important - no one knows what effect T-cells have, much less if they can do it without antibodies.

posted by gut

That will be interesting if a vaccination is available before the election.

If Moderna wins, I could see the media making a big deal about how it might not stimulate killer T-cells.  You have to remember the media has believed Trump will kill millions since taking office, so to them scaring people to delay the vaccination for a month or two would be a justifiable risk.

FWIW, Moderna hasn't looked at T-cells in its trials.  The CEO said he's not convinced it's important - no one knows what effect T-cells have, much less if they can do it without antibodies.

Question, anyone have any idea how a rollout would work? Would it be widely available to the general public, or go through a process where certain segments of the population would get it? Would it be like the current testing regime? Would it also be free or come at a cost? 

I haven't seen any of these questions even asked. 

Stats today aren't great. Over 800 deaths today 

Our daily update is published. 762k tests recorded today in the US. 65k new cases. 57k people currently reported to be hospitalized with COVID-19. (More on that shortly.)

States reported 872 COVID-19 deaths today. 

Our daily update is published. 762k tests recorded today in the US. 65k new cases. 57k people currently reported to be hospitalized with COVID-19. (More on that shortly.)

States reported 872 COVID-19 deaths today. pic.twitter.com/uNlkVon7jI

— The COVID Tracking Project (@COVID19Tracking) July 18, 2020

posted by ptown_trojans_1

I haven't seen any of these questions even asked. 

Good point.  Aside from whether or not Trump would give a good answer, I've seen very little quality/relevant questions from the press pool.  Questions appear to be more political than actually trying to get good info for the public.

And so I've never heard a single question about how to distribute a vaccine.  I hope there's a good plan being put into place.  Moderna might be 2 doses a month apart, so that adds significant complexity to vaccinating 330M people.

Otherwise you can probably guess.  We might see about 50-100M doses per month beginning in October.  50M people in the US over 65.  There's 20M healthcare workers, and another 23M in local/state/federal govt (which I assume includes military, police, teachers, etc).  In that latter group, the question becomes if "first line" people who are otherwise healthy and under 50 should get priority over seniors.

The US has entered purchase agreements, so I'm assuming the vaccine will be free.  Whether some providers charge a fee to administer it who knows.  I assume the roll out would be initially thru primary care physicians to ensure it gets to the riskiest patients first.  After probably about 3 months it might start rolling out to other POC locations like Walgreens/CVS.

China should get the vaccines last.