posted by kizer permanente

I love the idea that QO thinks he can realistically calculate the cost of undocumented people. Since.. you know... they’re undocumented. So any and everything would purely be an estimate. Also.. a wall can’t remove people who are already here. Or people that didn’t come from the southern border. Or people who are paying taxes under fake id’s that would now be taken away.  Or... well you get the idea, right? 

Lord, where to begin.  There are a plethora of cost estimates related to the illegal immigration crisis.  Medical costs, educations costs, welfare costs, housing costs, border security costs, and on and on and on.  Many of the estimates are in the $150 billion per year range. Then there are the opportunity costs that are not even factored into those costs, which could easily be in the tens of billions on top of the $150 billion.  So pick a number to apply to the wall - $5 billion, $25 billion, $50 billion …any of them have a 1 year payback or less, not even counting the elimination of future costs that will continue to skyrocket so long as we do nothing now and continue to kick the can down the road.

The Wall --- obviously it will not be a solid concrete/steel wall the entire length of the southern border, contrary to the absurd noise from the left trying to pin that on those in favor of a wall.  ‘The wall’ will be built in segments in areas where it makes the most sense, and in areas where other means of deterrence to entry work better, different solutions will be used.  Pick any of hundreds of border chiefs and agents and they will tell you that such a ‘wall’ will be of huge importance in stemming the invasion.  This is not rocket science; this is something nearly every democrat supported, that is, before Trump was elected. 

Ending this crisis and solving this problem for the long-term will save taxpayers hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars.  There is no more time to waste; it is long, long past time to act.

posted by friendfromlowry

If the fence around my backyard fell down tonight I'd for sure have 50-60 people just roaming around my backyard doing whatever they wanted by morning. 

Ahh, the old not-in-my-backyard comment ....  not yet, anyway.

posted by QuakerOats

 

Lord, where to begin.  There are a plethora of cost estimates related to the illegal immigration crisis.  Medical costs, educations costs, welfare costs, housing costs, border security costs, and on and on and on.  Many of the estimates are in the $150 billion per year range. Then there are the opportunity costs that are not even factored into those costs, which could easily be in the tens of billions on top of the $150 billion.  So pick a number to apply to the wall - $5 billion, $25 billion, $50 billion …any of them have a 1 year payback or less, not even counting the elimination of future costs that will continue to skyrocket so long as we do nothing now and continue to kick the can down the road.

 

The Wall --- obviously it will not be a solid concrete/steel wall the entire length of the southern border, contrary to the absurd noise from the left trying to pin that on those in favor of a wall.  ‘The wall’ will be built in segments in areas where it makes the most sense, and in areas where other means of deterrence to entry work better, different solutions will be used.  Pick any of hundreds of border chiefs and agents and they will tell you that such a ‘wall’ will be of huge importance in stemming the invasion.  This is not rocket science; this is something nearly every democrat supported, that is, before Trump was elected. 

 

Ending this crisis and solving this problem for the long-term will save taxpayers hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars.  There is no more time to waste; it is long, long past time to act.

My point is you can’t calculate your roi off estimates. Which you seem to be perfectly willing to do. You sound like every cold call salesman I’ve ever dealt with. Is that your profession by chance ? 

I don't see how a wall addresses all the people that are already here? 

Also, how would it address all the people that turn themselves in to DHS at the border for political asylum?  

Gee it would seem actually fixing the immigration system would be a better option than a multi billion dollar wall. 

posted by QuakerOats

 

Lord, where to begin.  There are a plethora of cost estimates related to the illegal immigration crisis.  Medical costs, educations costs, welfare costs, housing costs, border security costs, and on and on and on.  Many of the estimates are in the $150 billion per year range. Then there are the opportunity costs that are not even factored into those costs, which could easily be in the tens of billions on top of the $150 billion.  So pick a number to apply to the wall - $5 billion, $25 billion, $50 billion …any of them have a 1 year payback or less, not even counting the elimination of future costs that will continue to skyrocket so long as we do nothing now and continue to kick the can down the road.

 

The Wall --- obviously it will not be a solid concrete/steel wall the entire length of the southern border, contrary to the absurd noise from the left trying to pin that on those in favor of a wall.  ‘The wall’ will be built in segments in areas where it makes the most sense, and in areas where other means of deterrence to entry work better, different solutions will be used.  Pick any of hundreds of border chiefs and agents and they will tell you that such a ‘wall’ will be of huge importance in stemming the invasion.  This is not rocket science; this is something nearly every democrat supported, that is, before Trump was elected. 

 

Ending this crisis and solving this problem for the long-term will save taxpayers hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars.  There is no more time to waste; it is long, long past time to act.

Welfare and housing  require a social security number. I’ll give u the medical cost I guess 

posted by geeblock

Welfare and housing  require a social security number.

LOL...as if a fake SSN is hard to get.

posted by kizer permanente

I also think you realize no one takes an airplane for the few moments it uses its wheels.. but whatever. 

Ummm, the wheel is kind of super critical to the function of that airplane.  Without it, air travel wouldn't be remotely cheap or accessible.

posted by gut

Ummm, the wheel is kind of super critical to the function of that airplane.  Without it, air travel wouldn't be remotely cheap or accessible.

Ok. yes it's super critical. And not at all relating to the point o-trp was making. But you're very right. good job. 

The wheels function and a walls function in comparison is that They both work effectively

posted by kizer permanente

Ok. yes it's super critical. And not at all relating to the point o-trp was making. But you're very right. good job. 

No, O-trap's point was a bad one.  The wheel is not obsolete or even dated - it's practically timeless.  The wheel is part of the plane, a critical part.  There's essentially no airplane without the wheel, so the analogy was a failed one.

Anyway, it was a joke that was also a valid point....both of which continue to sail over your head.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

I don't see how a wall addresses all the people that are already here? 

Also, how would it address all the people that turn themselves in to DHS at the border for political asylum?  

Gee it would seem actually fixing the immigration system would be a better option than a multi billion dollar wall. 

You’ve never been involved in a turnaround situation, I see. The first thing we need to do is stop the bleeding, i.e. secure the border.  Once that occurs, you deal with those here illegally in an orderly, but swift manner. 

Cannot stand it when people cry about things being difficult to do …..move out of the way then.

posted by kizer permanente

My point is you can’t calculate your roi off estimates. Which you seem to be perfectly willing to do. You sound like every cold call salesman I’ve ever dealt with. Is that your profession by chance ? 

LOL, that is exactly how you do it.

posted by QuakerOats

 

 

You’ve never been involved in a turnaround situation, I see. The first thing we need to do is stop the bleeding, i.e. secure the border.  Once that occurs, you deal with those here illegally in an orderly, but swift manner. 

 

Cannot stand it when people cry about things being difficult to do …..move out of the way then.

 

See, I see it the other way around. Deal with the people that are here first. Deal with the larger issue, the completely broken immigration system. Also, the wall does not address all the people that will show up at the border seeking asylum, or that overstay their visas. A wall will not stop that bleeding, only changing how we tackle immigration does. That is the very difficult problem and one that no one in power wants to try and tackle. 

The President and wall supporters are spending a lot of political time and capital that could be spent on immigration reform instead. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

See, I see it the other way around. Deal with the people that are here first. Deal with the larger issue, the completely broken immigration system. Also, the wall does not address all the people that will show up at the border seeking asylum, or that overstay their visas. A wall will not stop that bleeding, only changing how we tackle immigration does. That is the very difficult problem and one that no one in power wants to try and tackle. 

The President and wall supporters are spending a lot of political time and capital that could be spent on immigration reform instead. 

 

I disagree; I believe we should stop the bleeding first and foremost, immediately.  However, I will meet you halfway.  Since we have a $3.5 trillion federally outlay annually, we should easily be able to both at the same time.  So do both, immediately.

https://twitter.com/complex/status/1108755263442599937?s=21

build the wall! 

posted by QuakerOats

 

 

LOL, that is exactly how you do it.

No that's how a salesman sells you on a project. Which is what you're eating up right now.

I guess; if you say so.

I am sure that Ptown was for the wall when Obama and the dems approved $25 Billion for the border a decade ago

posted by gut

You do realize that most planes still use wheels to take-off and land?

Sure.  What was once a state-of-the-art form of transportation is now an aide for a better form of transportation.  That's not unreasonable.

posted by QuakerOats

 

 

LOL, that is exactly how you do it.

Er ... no.  You use actual metrics to calculate an ROI.  You use projections to sell it.  I do that every day.

posted by Spock

I am sure that Ptown was for the wall when Obama and the dems approved $25 Billion for the border a decade ago

Maybe.  Were you?

Haha QO uses projections to calculate ROI. No wonder he recommends shitty stocks and doesn’t understand the market!

posted by SportsAndLady

Haha QO uses projections to calculate ROI. No wonder he recommends shitty stocks and doesn’t understand the market!

it's exactly how you do it!!!!

Good God.  You use cost estimates for a project and projected future income streams or cost savings resulting from the project to do an ROI to determine whether to proceed with a project.  You use the same numbers to project  payback periods, NPV’s etc..etc..      wow

posted by SportsAndLady

Haha QO uses projections to calculate ROI. No wonder he recommends shitty stocks and doesn’t understand the market!

NTNX up 90% since I first acquired 1 ½ years ago ………let’s see you annualize that return, and do an ROI.

posted by O-Trap

Sure.  What was once a state-of-the-art form of transportation is now an aide for a better form of transportation.  That's not unreasonable.

 

posted by QuakerOats

 

 

LOL, that is exactly how you do it.

 

Er ... no.  You use actual metrics to calculate an ROI.  You use projections to sell it.  I do that every day.

 

posted by Spock

I am sure that Ptown was for the wall when Obama and the dems approved $25 Billion for the border a decade ago

Maybe.  Were you?

 

 

 

Yes I was.  

posted by QuakerOats

 

Good God.  You use cost estimates for a project and projected future income streams or cost savings resulting from the project to do an ROI to determine whether to proceed with a project.  You use the same numbers to project  payback periods, NPV’s etc..etc..      wow

Do you not know what ROI is?

ROI isn't something you "do."  It's just a metric that exists within any financial model that is already in use, whether it's acknowledged or not ... like a conversion rate in sales.  By definition, it doesn't involve estimates.