Big Red turns down ECOL invite

• ManO'War

  

  our goals are Regional Championships, not league titles. We already have a league that we care nothing about.
• bases_loaded

  

  ManO'War wrote: our goals are Regional Championships, not league titles. We already have a league that we care nothing about.

  Does anyone care about the OVAC? How do you determine a league champion with 30 teams?
• ManO'War

  

  Most schools do make a big deal about winning a title, but we have been screwed over so many times that it has become a joke to our fans. We have only won the football title a few times in the last decade, but realistically Big Red was the best team for the last decade.
• FairwoodKing

  I think the icing on the cake came in 2008 when Wheeling Park won the OVAC AAAA championship despite the fact that Big Red went undefeated in the regular season and beat Park 41-7. That proved what a farce the OVAC is.
• FairwoodKing

  Wooball wrote: I don't get why you think Big Red will not be able to play the big name teams they have been playing in their OOC schedule should they join the ECOL. You would only have 5 locked games per year, leaving you 5 open dates to schedule whoever you want.

  It is my understanding that each of the big schools would also have to play a crossover game with one of the smaller schools. That would mean six conference games every year with three of them on the road. Since Big Red always wants seven home games, the only teams we could schedule would be schools like St. Joe's and Buchtel who are willing to drive to Steubenville every year. Unless we agreed to only playing six home games, we could not schedule Massillon or Ursuline or any of the other good schools.
• GoChiefs

  

  So..the only reason you don't want in the league is b/c you wouldn't have 7 home games a year???
• FairwoodKing

  GoChiefs wrote: So..the only reason you don't want in the league is b/c you wouldn't have 7 home games a year???

  No. The reason I don't want us in the league is because we probably wouldn't play the good OOC teams any more. I would rather play Massillon and Ursuline than Marietta and Cambridge.
• Wooball

  

  FairwoodKing wrote:

  GoChiefs wrote: So..the only reason you don't want in the league is b/c you wouldn't have 7 home games a year???

  No. The reason I don't want us in the league is because we probably wouldn't play the good OOC teams any more. I would rather play Massillon and Ursuline than Marietta and Cambridge.

  
  It is truly amazing that other teams in leagues are able to schedule quality non-conference opponents, but being in a league that would lock in 5-6 games would prevent Big Red from doing so. I guess I don't understand?
  
  I wonder if one of the stipulations that Big Red reportedly is asking for is not to be forced to play the crossover game? I would imagine most of the small school division schools would not have a problem with that stipulation.
• FairwoodKing

  Wooball wrote:

  FairwoodKing wrote:

  GoChiefs wrote: So..the only reason you don't want in the league is b/c you wouldn't have 7 home games a year???

  No. The reason I don't want us in the league is because we probably wouldn't play the good OOC teams any more. I would rather play Massillon and Ursuline than Marietta and Cambridge.

  
  It is truly amazing that other teams in leagues are able to schedule quality non-conference opponents, but being in a league that would lock in 5-6 games would prevent Big Red from doing so. I guess I don't understand?
  
  I wonder if one of the stipulations that Big Red reportedly is asking for is not to be forced to play the crossover game? I would imagine most of the small school division schools would not have a problem with that stipulation.

  The other ECOL teams don't play seven home games every year. That is the issue. If we join the league, we will have to make a compromise somewhere. We will either have to play four road games every year in order to schedule quality OOC teams, or we will have to drop the good OOC teams and play garbage like Buchtel that are willing to come to Harding Stadium on a regular basis.
  
  I'm speaking from the school's point of view, not my own. I personally don't care how many away games we play because I rarely get to come home to see the games anyway. They could play all ten games away and it would be no skin off my nose. I "attend" every game by sitting in my home office and listening to The River webcasts on my computer. I am trying to say that the school has had a policy for so long about only playing three away games (and sometimes fewer) that I don't know what they are going to do about this. This policy was in effect even back when I was in school in the 1960's. Again, a compromise will have to be made.
• FairwoodKing

  Wooball wrote:

  FairwoodKing wrote:

  GoChiefs wrote: So..the only reason you don't want in the league is b/c you wouldn't have 7 home games a year???

  No. The reason I don't want us in the league is because we probably wouldn't play the good OOC teams any more. I would rather play Massillon and Ursuline than Marietta and Cambridge.

  
  It is truly amazing that other teams in leagues are able to schedule quality non-conference opponents, but being in a league that would lock in 5-6 games would prevent Big Red from doing so. I guess I don't understand?
  
  I wonder if one of the stipulations that Big Red reportedly is asking for is not to be forced to play the crossover game? I would imagine most of the small school division schools would not have a problem with that stipulation.

  It seems to me that these teams don't schedule many good OOC opponents. That's one of the reasons why New Philly went 9-1 last year and didn't make the playoffs. I think the only reason why the ECOL wants Big Red is to upgrade everyone's schedule.
• GoChiefs

  

  I highly doubt the ECOL is going to let them play 7 games a year just say they join the league. And obviously Big Red feels there is some kind of advantage to joining this league or else it would never happen. I'm sure in the end..it will be good for both Steubenville and the ECOL..otherwise..you know Big Red wouldn't do it.
• FairwoodKing

  A poster on one of the other threads said that Steubenville Central will definitely join the ECOL in their lower division in 2011. I wonder if this will affect Big Red's decision to join.
• ManO'War

  

  Yea, what teams in these big leagues play quality non conference games?? I know Dover has tried a few, but that's because they know that the ECOL in it's current form is a walk in the park for them.
• FairwoodKing

  ManO'War wrote: Yea, what teams in these big leagues play quality non conference games?? I know Dover has tried a few, but that's because they know that the ECOL in it's current form is a walk in the park for them.

  Dover tried playing Massillon but it didn't work. That's why they copped out on the second year of their contract. Last year Big Red played Woodland Hills, Inkster, and Massillon. I doubt if even one team in the ECOL played even one game against anyone that good.
• bases_loaded

  

  Oh my god Steubenville wouldn't be able to have 7 home games? Cry me a river. Welcome to high school football where 6 home games is normal but not 7 or 9.
• bases_loaded

  

  FairwoodKing wrote:

  ManO'War wrote: Yea, what teams in these big leagues play quality non conference games?? I know Dover has tried a few, but that's because they know that the ECOL in it's current form is a walk in the park for them.

  Dover tried playing Massillon but it didn't work. That's why they copped out on the second year of their contract. Last year Big Red played Woodland Hills, Inkster, and Massillon. I doubt if even one team in the ECOL played even one game against anyone that good.

  Dover's OCS year in and year out is full of perennial playoff teams most of the time larger schools.
• ManO'War

  

  The only significantly larger teams I remember Dover playing was Massillon. Avon Lake and Uniontown Lake were slightly larger.
  
  But like I said, they had that cushion since they knew they were going to walk through their league.
  
  Do you think Dover will continue to play better OOC teams if Big Red is added to the league? I've seen a few times that Dover has either struggled to make the playoffs or did make it with one or two losses.
• Wooball

  

  ManO'War wrote: The only significantly larger teams I remember Dover playing was Massillon. Avon Lake and Uniontown Lake were slightly larger.
  
  But like I said, they had that cushion since they knew they were going to walk through their league.
  
  Do you think Dover will continue to play better OOC teams if Big Red is added to the league? I've seen a few times that Dover has either struggled to make the playoffs or did make it with one or two losses.

  
  I would expect Dover to continue to schedule at least 2-3 quality opponents in the OOC schedule if Big Red is added to the league. Dover has failed to reach the playoffs twice since the 1998 season. Of those 10 appearances (excluding 98 which was the last year they took 4 teams per region) , they have hosted their 1st round game 7 times. A couple of those years they hosted they lost 2 or 3 of their OOC games, so I don't see why if Big Red would join the league Dover would suddenly stop play quality teams in the non-conference.
• ManO'War

  

  I see, according to Joe Eitel, that they didn't host in 05, 04, 02, or 00 (didn't make the playoffs in 04 or 00).
  
  My point is that they are not a lock with a loss or two, and with Big Red in there (a likely loss) and Zanesville, which is capable of beating them in any given year, it seems that if they do an 0-3 OOC like they did a few years ago, they are looking at a 5-5 type season.
• september63

  

  Dover will most likely schedule cupcakes OOC now with Big Red in the ECOL. The extra computer points from Steubenville (likely a win) every year will be all they need.
• ManO'War

  

  It's not like they are scheduling heavyweights now. They know their level.
  
  Canfield is a solid team, as was Avon Lake, but it's not like they are lining up D1 schools.
• Wooball

  

  ManO'War wrote: I see, according to Joe Eitel, that they didn't host in 05, 04, 02, or 00 (didn't make the playoffs in 04 or 00).
  
  My point is that they are not a lock with a loss or two, and with Big Red in there (a likely loss) and Zanesville, which is capable of beating them in any given year, it seems that if they do an 0-3 OOC like they did a few years ago, they are looking at a 5-5 type season.

  
  This is exactly what i stated in my post, but thanks for putting the years out there. Dover missed in 2000 going 8-2 and in 04 they went 7-3. The following year they went 7-3 and went on the road to Licking Valley. Then in 2007 Dover went 7-3 and hosted a first round game. So it's not like they are going to miss the playoffs if they go 9-1 or 8-2. Odds are they also will make it winning 7, with a chance winning 6 games with the right schedule. Would a 5-5 season be more likely with Big Red and Zanesville in the league? Absolutely, but I wouldn't expect to see that happen very often.
• ManO'War

  

  Well, if you miss going 7-3 or better, then something is wrong. I guess this may be the reason that the ECOL wants to put the other teams in a different football league sub division.
• rock_knutne

  FairwoodKing wrote: A poster on one of the other threads said that Steubenville Central will definitely join the ECOL in their lower division in 2011. I wonder if this will affect Big Red's decision to join.

  Which thread? I really don't want CCHS to join this league, bad move IMO.
  
  Why would CCHS joining this league affect Big Red's decision to join? It's not like they're going to play each other.
• Wooball

  

  ManO'War wrote: Well, if you miss going 7-3 or better, then something is wrong. I guess this may be the reason that the ECOL wants to put the other teams in a different football league sub division.

  
  I would agree with that, and since 2004 Dover has mad an effort to improve their OOC schedule so that doesn't happen. New Phila on the other hand has not. Just by adding Zanesville and possibly Big Red isn't going to cause Dover to completely change their OOC scheduling. They might add in 1 "cupcake" into that mix. We all can't play powers like Wheeling Park, Wheeling Central, Indian Creek, East Liverpool, Morgantown, or Brooke every week.
  
  The small and large division should help all schools involved with the league, with the possible exception of Coshocton, who enjoyed success while playing the larger schools in the ECOL. It will now be up to them to schedule comparable schools in their OOC slate.