Should there be separate championship for public and private schools?

• newarkcatholicfan

  

  Why?
  Why not?
• september63

  

  NO!! It used to bother me a little but with open enrollment now that eliminates this myth about privates having advantages. In theory now, any kid can play at any school!! Look no further than NC Hoover and 2 time Mr. Football, Erick Howard.
• OPSAA

  Absolutely ...Im a week ahead of this topic here is a previous OPSAA post.
  
  here are the facts and i'm not accusing anyone of recruiting. Private schools can control their enrollment, when deciding to allow a student in , his/her athletic contribution to the school is taken into consideration. By doing this Ursuline who has a boys enrollment of 173, assured themselves 78 football players. Ridgewood who has an boys enrollment of 163 and can't weed out non athletes , has 44 football players. Lets look at Division 4 Alter which has a boys enrollment of 236 , has 72 football players. Public school Coshocton has a boys enrollment of 226 , and has 53 players. Don't believe me, look at Div 3 Mooney who has 252 boys in the school and dresses 71, Steubenville who has 270 boys enrolled only dress 55. This whole Division thing is being made a mockery by the private schools. How else can you explain D5 Ursuline dressing 23 more players than Div 3 Steubenville, 15 more than Div 2 Maple Hts.
  It is much harder to take advantage of the numbers game at the higher the divisions. This is why we see in D3,D4.D5 and D6 this year 6 out of 8 teams in the finals are private schools.
  
  Now I'm not saying these are not the best teams , they are , but they should be given the advantage they have. Public schools want no favors just a level playing field.
  
  This will continue to be a cancer in Ohio High School Football until public schools say no more.
  
  If this issue concerns you email OHSAA President Dan Ross at [email protected] and demand this problem be addressed. Don't expect action (see below)
  
  FYI - If you look up Dan Ross's bio on the OHSAA website you will see that he graduated from Columbus St.Charles and was once Principal at Portsmouth Notre Dame. ( how do you protect the hens, when the fox is already in the henhouse)?
  
  Ohio Public School Athletic Association - sounds good doesnt it?
  
  " The truth isnt always popular, but it is still the truth"
• september63

  

  All valid points. But you know what, if you cant beat up the bully, are you going to ask for a rule change or strive to get better?
• CardsFlyinHigh

  In D1, D2, and to an extent D3, the school districts are large enough a public school has a good pool of student athletes to comprise their teams of.
  
  And god bless the MAC (no pun intended) for doing what they have all these years with schools like Coldwater, Marion Local , St. Henry to put themselves at that high a level.
  
  Open enrollement is not a universal procedure.
  
  In the lower divisions, some schools just don't have the resources to match what a school like Ursuline can bring to the table. They can pool players from Youngstown, Austintown, Liberty, Girard, Campbell, etc... basically almost a boundryless district. The schools like Ridgewood or Crestview, who are limited by district lines, are at a severe disadvantage.
  
  The OHSAA went to six divisions so the small town schools can compete for state titles and that is getting further and further away from being possible. The playing field just isn't level.
• coyotes22

  

  No. You have to beat the best, to be the best.
  
  I do say all Publics should not schedule them during the regular season though.
• HeathAlum21

  I think there are already too many state champions as it is. I would rather see a three division system, but it won't happen because of the financial aspect.
• football71

  Now here's a topic you don't often hear anything about.
• SQ_Crazies

  

  Bottom line is every team is made up of 15-18 year old high school kids. If you want to win then win, not everyone can win. What's next? Not keeping score and just playing to have fun?
• coyotes22

  

  
• SQ_Crazies

  

  HeathAlum21 wrote: I think there are already too many state champions as it is. I would rather see a three division system, but it won't happen because of the financial aspect.

  Now that is an idea that makes way more sense than seperate divisions.
  
  What I really don't get is why isn't everyone climbing on the back of the private schools who don't win? There are plenty of private schools who are terrible at football. And as far as more football players--maybe the tradition of the school makes more kids want to go out for the sport...or maybe that makes too much sense for some cry babies to understand. I went to a public school and if we wanted a state title we would have had to beat private schools. It's happened before and it will happen again--it's incredible that this debate continues every year to no end. It's pointless, drop it. If you want to win then beat them, don't run from them. I just watched a Coldwater team that could definitely compete with Ursuline--turnovers cost them a chance to win the game, not superior athletes. And most of these kids start going to these schools as freshman--it's their fault that they develop talent better at a handful of schools?
• coyotes22

  

  SQ_Crazies wrote:

  HeathAlum21 wrote: I think there are already too many state champions as it is. I would rather see a three division system, but it won't happen because of the financial aspect.

  Now that is an idea that makes way more sense than seperate divisions.
  
  What I really don't get is why isn't everyone climbing on the back of the private schools who don't win? There are plenty of private schools who are terrible at football. And as far as more football players--maybe the tradition of the school makes more kids want to go out for the sport...or maybe that makes too much sense for some cry babies to understand. I went to a public school and if we wanted a state title we would have had to beat private schools. It's happened before and it will happen again--it's incredible that this debate continues every year to no end. It's pointless, drop it. If you want to win then beat them, don't run from them. I just watched a Coldwater team that could definitely compete with Ursuline--turnovers cost them a chance to win the game, not superior athletes. And most of these kids start going to these schools as freshman--it's their fault that they develop talent better at a handful of schools?

  BUT, as a quick example. Right here in Stark county. St. Thomas A next to Louisville. Central Catholic right in the heart of Stark. CCC boarders Perry, McKinley and Massillon. Not fair to jump their backs. They have some powerhouse to compete for, player wise.
• OPSAA

  OHSAA is not about fairness and whats good for kids, its about good ole boys climbing the OHSAA ladder so they can look out for their school, league or so they can "play the wheel" and make sure they get perks like books of tourney tickets. Most of us spend and do more for kids than than most of these commissioners and district officers, but try and get into that big heated tent behind faucett stadium where all these "fatcats" are stuffing themselves with food we paid for ( every bite of hotdog they eat, robs the kids) . You wont be able to get in unless your in "the click" . You stay in the click by voting on the status quo or whatever agenda item makes the OHSAA empire grow.
  
  Anyone who witnessed the sparse crowd that Ursuline traveled with to the Canton Regional knows its the public schools that pay the bills and put the butts in the seats- wake up OHSAA
  
  OHIO PUBLIC SCHOOL ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION- sounds good doesn't it?
• SQ_Crazies

  

  coyotes22 wrote:

  SQ_Crazies wrote:

  HeathAlum21 wrote: I think there are already too many state champions as it is. I would rather see a three division system, but it won't happen because of the financial aspect.

  Now that is an idea that makes way more sense than seperate divisions.
  
  What I really don't get is why isn't everyone climbing on the back of the private schools who don't win? There are plenty of private schools who are terrible at football. And as far as more football players--maybe the tradition of the school makes more kids want to go out for the sport...or maybe that makes too much sense for some cry babies to understand. I went to a public school and if we wanted a state title we would have had to beat private schools. It's happened before and it will happen again--it's incredible that this debate continues every year to no end. It's pointless, drop it. If you want to win then beat them, don't run from them. I just watched a Coldwater team that could definitely compete with Ursuline--turnovers cost them a chance to win the game, not superior athletes. And most of these kids start going to these schools as freshman--it's their fault that they develop talent better at a handful of schools?

  BUT, as a quick example. Right here in Stark county. St. Thomas A next to Louisville. Central Catholic right in the heart of Stark. CCC boarders Perry, McKinley and Massillon. Not fair to jump their backs. They have some powerhouse to compete for, player wise.

  
  ^Wait, so you're saying that they can't get the kids because they chose to go to the better public football school? So isn't it the same thing? If you were from Youngstown and were good at football and had a choice of schools where would you pick?
  
  And don't give me that, the Mahoning Valley is littered with great public school programs as well.
• SQ_Crazies

  

  How come no one was whining when Coldwater beat Mooney? And you act like Mooney wins it every year. They have 7 titles. They've been to the title game 5 of the last 6 years and won 3 of their 7. Mooney has been around for a loooong time. It wasn't long ago they had an 0-10 season if I'm not mistaken. They're on an incredible run, give them credit where it's due.
  
  EDIT:
  
  Yep, 2001 Mooney was 0-10. 2000 they were 5-5, 2002 they were 5-5.
• OPSAA

  LOL SQ and coyote , you guys and i disagree but you are great debaters. That hybred pic from Office Space - beating the dead horse is now my wallpaper (funniest thing I have seen this year) thanks
• allstar

  Split them. Sure there are kids who go because it is a christian school. Absolutely. But how many go just for athletics?
• coyotes22

  

  SQ_Crazies wrote:^Wait, so you're saying that they can't get the kids because they chose to go to the better public football school? So isn't it the same thing?

  
  
  Yes it is the same thing. I agree with you. I am a Massillon fan all the way, but, have never been tired of playing St. Iggy. I welcome them, to play us. That is what makes you better. But, I dont run things in Massillon, and cant schedule people.
  
  

  SQ_Crazies wrote:If you were from Youngstown and were good at football and had a choice of schools where would you pick?

  I dont know. Are there any good schools to go to, there? LOL.
  

  SQ_Crazies wrote:And don't give me that, the Mahoning Valley is littered with great public school programs as well.

  Ok, I wont!!!
  
  
  
  
  Look, I am just as tired of hearing this BS public's vs Private's also! It will never change. But, I guess some people need something to bitch about, right?
• Jimmie Copas

  How about having private schools compete at Division 1 level in tournamments/playoffs ?
• newarkcatholicfan

  

  SQ_Crazies wrote:

  coyotes22 wrote:

  SQ_Crazies wrote:

  HeathAlum21 wrote: I think there are already too many state champions as it is. I would rather see a three division system, but it won't happen because of the financial aspect.

  Now that is an idea that makes way more sense than seperate divisions.
  
  What I really don't get is why isn't everyone climbing on the back of the private schools who don't win? There are plenty of private schools who are terrible at football. And as far as more football players--maybe the tradition of the school makes more kids want to go out for the sport...or maybe that makes too much sense for some cry babies to understand. I went to a public school and if we wanted a state title we would have had to beat private schools. It's happened before and it will happen again--it's incredible that this debate continues every year to no end. It's pointless, drop it. If you want to win then beat them, don't run from them. I just watched a Coldwater team that could definitely compete with Ursuline--turnovers cost them a chance to win the game, not superior athletes. And most of these kids start going to these schools as freshman--it's their fault that they develop talent better at a handful of schools?

  BUT, as a quick example. Right here in Stark county. St. Thomas A next to Louisville. Central Catholic right in the heart of Stark. CCC boarders Perry, McKinley and Massillon. Not fair to jump their backs. They have some powerhouse to compete for, player wise.

  
  ^Wait, so you're saying that they can't get the kids because they chose to go to the better public football school? So isn't it the same thing? If you were from Youngstown and were good at football and had a choice of schools where would you pick?
  
  And don't give me that, the Mahoning Valley is littered with great public school programs as well.

  How many of those great Mahoning Valley public schools have multiple state titles and are on top almost each year?
• OPSAA

  That sounds perfect ---all private schools play in D1 .....Jimmie Copas is now OHSAA President , hostile takeover Monsignor Dan Ross is OUT
• coyotes22

  

  Jimmie Copas wrote: How about having private schools compete at Division 1 level in tournamments/playoffs ?

  That sounds awesome!!! Lets put a Division 6 Private against St. X in the playoffs next year!!! :rolleyes:
  
  Get over it. Look at Division I and Division II this year. All 4 Schools playing for State are Publics.
• coyotes22

  

  OPSAA wrote: LOL SQ and coyote , you guys and i disagree but you are great debaters. That hybred pic from Office Space - beating the dead horse is now my wallpaper (funniest thing I have seen this year) thanks

  You are welcome!!!!
• OPSAA

  How about a private school must play 2 divisions higher?
• Cmhs74

  Texas has a conference for the private schools and it does quite well but there are plenty of private schools in the Houston area for schools to play each other. OPSAA, did you attend Cardinal Mooney? When I enrolled at the school they never asked if I played football or any other sport. I went there for the education as did the rest of my family. My mother was a graduate of Ursuline and wanted us to have a good Catholic educaiton. None of us played sports. Due to the cost of tuition the enrollment is low but slowly growing. Coyote said the publics shouldn't schedule them, well look at the travel schedule of Mooney, that's already happening. When Mooney went 0 - 10 around 2000 I didn't see any of these threads. Now that they are winning, it's all about enrollment and choosing who you let into the school. Pretty sad. Lastly I'd like to thank SQ for his support of the private schools. He doesn't (or didn't) go to one but if you look at his posts he brings up many valid points. GO CARDS, GO IRISH, GO PRIVATES................