Should there be separate championship for public and private schools?

• redstreak one

  

  Wow Rocket, come up with that arguement all by yourself or did Al help you! LOL Yeah, the mighty MAC dominating over those poor privates, however do you get up in the morning. Hey, genius, when public schools outnumber privates almost 5 to 1, you should see a public school among the winningest state history, its called law of averages. Now, lets just look at those numbers shall we. Easy to find on www.ohsaa.org
  
  I am sticking with D III and down. If I put in the top two it would make it even more lopsided for the Privates. But I wont.
  1998- III Desales over Walsh Jesuit
  IV Orrville over Coldwater
  V Versailles over Liberty Center
  VI Delphos St Johns over Lancaster Fisher Catholic
  Total 4 publics versus 4 privates split 2 to 2 champions
  
  1999- III Poland Seminary over Columbus Bishop Watterson
  IV Sandusky Perkins over Ironton
  V Amanda Clearcreek over St Henry
  VI Delphos St Johns over Norwarlk St Paul
  3 private versu 5 public Public 3 to 1 champions.
  
  2000- III Canton Central Catholic over Vanwert
  IV Youngstown Ursuline over Coldwater
  V Amanda Clearcreek over St Peter Chanel
  VI Maria Stein Marion Local over Mogadore
  
  3 Private versus 5 Public, split 2 to 2 champions
  
  2001- III Mentor Lake Catholic over Desales
  IV Kenton over Newark Licking Valley
  V Bedford St Peter Chanel over Marion Pleasant
  VI Maria Stein Marion Locasl over Mogadore
  3 Private versus 5 Public Split champions 2 to 2
  
  2002- III Columbus Bishop Watterson over Cleveland Benedictine
  IV Kenton over Portsmouth West
  V Marions Pleasant over Smithville
  VI Mogadore over Dolar Hardin Northern
  2 Private versus 6 Public 3 Public champions versus 1 Private
  
  2003- III Cleveland Benedictine over Kenton
  IV Versailles over Cleveland Villa Angelo St Joseph
  V Gahanna Christian Academy over Amanda Clearcreek
  VI Columbus Grove over Maria Stein Marion Local
  3 Private versus 5 Public Split 2 to 2 Champions
  
  2004- III Cleveland Benedictine over St Marys Memorial
  IV Youngstown Cardinal Mooney over Versailles
  V St Henry over Amanda Clearcreek
  VI Dola Hardin Northern over Norwalk St Paul
  4 Private versus 4 Public Split 2 to 2
  
  2005- III Steubenville over Columbus Desales
  IV Coldwater over Youngstown Cardinal Mooney
  V Hamler Patrick Henry over Cincinnati Hills Christian
  VI Delphos St Johns over Steubenville Central Catholic
  5 Private versu 3 Public , Public 3 versus Private 1
  
  2006- III Steubenvill over Kettering Archbishop Alter
  IV Youngstown Cardinal Mooney over Plain City Alder
  V St Henry over John F Kennedy
  VI Maria Stein Marion Local
  2 Private versus 6 Public, Public 3 to 1 Champion
  
  2007- III Sunbury Big Walnut over Newark Licking Valley
  IV Colderwater over Youngstown Cardinal Mooney
  V Maria Stein Marion Local over Youngstown Ursuline
  VI Newark Catholic over Hopewell Loudon
  3 Private versus 5 Public, Public 3 to 1 Champions
  
  2008- III Aurora over Columbus Eastmoor Academy
  IV Kettering Archbishop Alter over Steubenville
  V Youngstown Uruslinie over Liberty Benton
  VI Delphos St Johns over Hopewell Loudon
  3 Private versus 5 Public, Privates 3 to 1 Champions
  
  2009- III Youngstown Cardinal Mooney over Columbsus Desales
  IV Kettering Archbishop Alter over Chagrin Falls
  V Youngstown Ursuline over Coldwater
  VI Norwalk St Paul over Delphos St Johns
  6 private to 2 Public all 4 champs Private.
  
  If it werent for the MAC schools, Privates would have an even greater number.
• 4cards

  

  ...1999 should be public 3 -- private 1. Poland Seminary is NOT a private school.
• o.a.b.

  Parochials claim to be well-rounded yet there are very few that offer occupational education,work -study programs.Their bands usually are a microcosm of their athletics.On their behalf,I doubt the majority pay their coaches as well as publics.I have no problem keeping things as are----as long as the PAROCHIAL school is held as financially accountable as the publics.Handing out parish-paid "scholarships" to primarily athletes is CRAP,but a parent who opts to pay the tuition himself [ over and above property taxes for a system he doesn't use] is to be admired.I think the burden of proof on running a clean program lies on the school itself,NOT the OHSAA.Pleeease,don't throw in the open enrollment argument---unless you live near a urban area,it isn't feasible.The NCAA has cleaned up the situation at the college level and so should the OHSAA.I find it perplexing,to say the least that in bad economic times,parochials lose enrollment BUT NOT TALENT.Doesn't that shed light on the REAL FACTS ?
• rrfan

  

  I would love to see a Private division and a public division.
  
  I follow a public school in Orrville, well know for their sports program. Have been stopped by private schools multiple times in football. Recently by the powerhouse Mooney when they were still in division IV. I respect this program very much but to say we are playing on a level field I think is a lie.
• Al Bundy

  redstreak one wrote: Wow Rocket, come up with that arguement all by yourself or did Al help you! LOL Yeah, the mighty MAC dominating over those poor privates, however do you get up in the morning. Hey, genius, when public schools outnumber privates almost 5 to 1, you should see a public school among the winningest state history, its called law of averages.

  Over the same time period, the MAC schools make up about 2.8% of the teams in Division 4-6, but they have won 39% of the championships in those divisions. The law of averages only applies to random events (like tossing a coin). Championships are won by competing. The MAC has some great programs, and they do a great job. I always enjoy watching them play. Even if you took the private schools out of the playoffs, the titles won't be distributed equally because some teams will still have better programs than others.
• Al Bundy

  o.a.b. wrote: I have no problem keeping things as are----as long as the PAROCHIAL school is held as financially accountable as the publics.

  Private schools have to be much more financially accountable than the public schools because they can't put a tax levy on the ballot to increase revenue. Compare the cost per student of most privates and most publics and see which is more financially accountable.
• rrfan

  

  Wake up look at how many tax levy's passed last election. You are not putting up a good fight with that arguement.
• darbypitcher22

  

  No.
  
  You saw it this weekend, you had 2 public school championship winners, and those 2 games were all public school finals. Things go in cycle.
• Be Nice

  No one is fooled. We all know the "R" word is king.
• o.a.b.

  I'm not talking about the money on the table,I'm talking about the money no-one sees except the recipient and the "donor".
• rrfan

  

  Could not agree more o.a.b. Just look at St. V they are waiting on some huge money from a one LBJ. They have a rule the high school student must be out 5 years. The R word gets me fired up also.
• KnightRyder

  

  Dean Wormer wrote:

  newarkcatholicfan wrote: I'm not a believer that all schools that are not winning isn't working as hard.
  
  When certain schools have twice the numbers of players on their team then other teams who are suppose to be the same size no matter how hard they work the numbers are going to catch up with them.

  I understand what you are saying newark. Maybe that's why there isn't much of a band at Mooney. Maybe the majority of the boys are playing football instead of the flute.

  didnt you know, catholics are better athletes than musicians
• GW1

  This subject never fails to bore me! I wish people would just get over it. To quote Tom Hanks, "are you crying? There's no crying in football!" And yes Catholics are better football players than flute players.
• Dean Wormer

  Hey o.a.b.
  
  Do you really want to have your balls busted? That unseen money from the donor is tax deductible. How's that for a kick in your balls.
• rrfan

  

  yea they are all catholics at a catholic school. LOL!
• Darkon

  

  GW1 wrote: This subject never fails to bore me! I wish people would just get over it. To quote Tom Hanks, "are you crying? There's no crying in football!" And yes Catholics are better football players than flute players.

  I most have missed this movie.
  I thought it was baseball.
• Con_Alma

  The R word doesn't get me fired up at all.
  
  If private institutions don't recruit they wont have students. I have no problem with that.
  
  I don't think all students at a catholic school are catholic and would be disappointed if they were. It would mean the catholic school isn't reaching out to others to expose them, if they have an interest, in their churches education system and theology.
  
  The greatest advantage a private school has is the environment and culture they can create in their facilities.
  
  My daughter has attended a private school for her entire k-8 years. My wife and I decided to let her mimic her future search for college by determining where might be the best place for her to attend high school. We asked her to write down what the ideal high school would be for her and then narrow down three she would like to consider. She defined the pros and the cons of each of the respective schools....two privates and our public school which is an excellent school in my opinion. When we inquired about an open house or visitation day at our public school they were not very willing. What they offered was a visit with the guidance counselor who discussed their curriculum and gave us a tour of the school. You can't experience the environment or culture of the school doing that.
  
  Privates do a better job selling their product in my opinion. They also know how to attract families. Competing on an athletic field may be not fair in the current system and I'm O.K. with it. It's not going to be perfect. The purpose of athletics in my opinion are to augment the educational process to prepare them for life outside of the classroom by experiencing those things that happen on the field of play that cannot be simulated in the classroom. We as a society have placed more importance on those athletic outcomes than should be and make them have a greater significance than we truly ought to.
• Cmhs74

  Good post Con_Alma. Someone said they doubted all students at Catholic schools are Catholic. I attended Mooney and no there were students who were not Catholic. You don't have to be Catholic to go there and I never heard anyone say that you did. I guess I could be considered an unseen donor for Mooney as I donate every year to the Alumni association fund, money that is used for scholarships, building maintenance, purchasing equipment for the school, etc. Yes that donation I give is tax deductible and so are the taxes I pay to the public schools in the district I live in (I don't have a choice to pay this money). I'm not crying or whining. It's my money and I'll do what I please with it. For those saying Mooney shouldn't be Div 3, don't blame them, they were put in that division by the rules of the higher ups. If you want to complain, complain to them.
• davedsimko

  Blitzkrieg wrote:

  Al Bundy wrote: Ursuline and Mooney have many kids who are willing to sacrifice and put in the time in the weightroom, when it would be much easier to sit at home play video games. The parents of the kids who let their kids play video games instead of hitting the weightroom, then cry that the system is unfair. If work ethic and sacrifice are "unfair", then I will agree that the private schools have an advantage.

  I highly doubt the Ursuline and Mooney kids work any harder in the weight room that any of the starters for Anna, Coldwater, St Henry, St Marys, Kenton, Wapak, Defiance, etc.
  
  All you are doing is tossing out ridiculous arguments that no one is implying. These same arguments that demonstrates your own ego in thinking your private school kids are superior to others.
  
  The system gives an advantage to lower division schools that have larger population bases to attract students from. Coldwater has a population on 5000 people. The Kettering and Youngstown areas (2 schools that have recently beaten Coldwater) are much, much larger.
  
  And just ask the Mooney posters - Coldwater only won their 2 state championships because Mooney QB's were injured in both games.

  I'm a Mooney poster and if you ask me I would say Coldwater won their 2 state titles because they scored more points than Mooney--I'm sure you can find posters who will whine about injured QB's but for the most part I think its a lame assessment that should be ignored, as I know most Mooney posters have more class than those you speak of.
• Rocket08

  redstreak one wrote: Wow Rocket, come up with that arguement all by yourself or did Al help you! LOL Yeah, the mighty MAC dominating over those poor privates, however do you get up in the morning. Hey, genius, when public schools outnumber privates almost 5 to 1, you should see a public school among the winningest state history, its called law of averages. Now, lets just look at those numbers shall we. Easy to find on www.ohsaa.org
  
  I am sticking with D III and down. If I put in the top two it would make it even more lopsided for the Privates. But I wont.
  1998- III Desales over Walsh Jesuit
  IV Orrville over Coldwater
  V Versailles over Liberty Center
  VI Delphos St Johns over Lancaster Fisher Catholic
  Total 4 publics versus 4 privates split 2 to 2 champions
  
  1999- III Poland Seminary over Columbus Bishop Watterson
  IV Sandusky Perkins over Ironton
  V Amanda Clearcreek over St Henry
  VI Delphos St Johns over Norwarlk St Paul
  3 private versu 5 public Public 3 to 1 champions.
  
  2000- III Canton Central Catholic over Vanwert
  IV Youngstown Ursuline over Coldwater
  V Amanda Clearcreek over St Peter Chanel
  VI Maria Stein Marion Local over Mogadore
  
  3 Private versus 5 Public, split 2 to 2 champions
  
  2001- III Mentor Lake Catholic over Desales
  IV Kenton over Newark Licking Valley
  V Bedford St Peter Chanel over Marion Pleasant
  VI Maria Stein Marion Locasl over Mogadore
  3 Private versus 5 Public Split champions 2 to 2
  
  2002- III Columbus Bishop Watterson over Cleveland Benedictine
  IV Kenton over Portsmouth West
  V Marions Pleasant over Smithville
  VI Mogadore over Dolar Hardin Northern
  2 Private versus 6 Public 3 Public champions versus 1 Private
  
  2003- III Cleveland Benedictine over Kenton
  IV Versailles over Cleveland Villa Angelo St Joseph
  V Gahanna Christian Academy over Amanda Clearcreek
  VI Columbus Grove over Maria Stein Marion Local
  3 Private versus 5 Public Split 2 to 2 Champions
  
  2004- III Cleveland Benedictine over St Marys Memorial
  IV Youngstown Cardinal Mooney over Versailles
  V St Henry over Amanda Clearcreek
  VI Dola Hardin Northern over Norwalk St Paul
  4 Private versus 4 Public Split 2 to 2
  
  2005- III Steubenville over Columbus Desales
  IV Coldwater over Youngstown Cardinal Mooney
  V Hamler Patrick Henry over Cincinnati Hills Christian
  VI Delphos St Johns over Steubenville Central Catholic
  5 Private versu 3 Public , Public 3 versus Private 1
  
  2006- III Steubenvill over Kettering Archbishop Alter
  IV Youngstown Cardinal Mooney over Plain City Alder
  V St Henry over John F Kennedy
  VI Maria Stein Marion Local
  2 Private versus 6 Public, Public 3 to 1 Champion
  
  2007- III Sunbury Big Walnut over Newark Licking Valley
  IV Colderwater over Youngstown Cardinal Mooney
  V Maria Stein Marion Local over Youngstown Ursuline
  VI Newark Catholic over Hopewell Loudon
  3 Private versus 5 Public, Public 3 to 1 Champions
  
  2008- III Aurora over Columbus Eastmoor Academy
  IV Kettering Archbishop Alter over Steubenville
  V Youngstown Uruslinie over Liberty Benton
  VI Delphos St Johns over Hopewell Loudon
  3 Private versus 5 Public, Privates 3 to 1 Champions
  
  2009- III Youngstown Cardinal Mooney over Columbsus Desales
  IV Kettering Archbishop Alter over Chagrin Falls
  V Youngstown Ursuline over Coldwater
  VI Norwalk St Paul over Delphos St Johns
  6 private to 2 Public all 4 champs Private.
  
  If it werent for the MAC schools, Privates would have an even greater number.

  Dude, you made my argument for me. It's pretty even, actually the Public Schools have a slight advantage. And once again, you failed to explain why the MAC can be so successful, and your team can't.
  
  That was a lot of work to make yourself look bad
• skank

  

  "Pretty even", when considering the ratio of publics to privates is....well, not pretty even at all.
• newarkcatholicfan

  

  skank wrote: "Pretty even", when considering the ratio of publics to privates is....well, not pretty even at all.

  So true.
• Al Bundy

  skank wrote: "Pretty even", when considering the ratio of publics to privates is....well, not pretty even at all.

  The MAC has a higher percentage for their size than private schools do. The MAC makes up 2.8% of all schools in Division 4-6, and they have 39% of the state titles.
• skank

  

  Well then Al, think how skewed the numbers would be if not for the MAC.
• Al Bundy

  skank wrote: Well then Al, think how skewed the numbers would be if not for the MAC.

  The MAC numbers are skewed more than the private numbers. I know that goes against what you are trying to prove, but it is a fact.