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Should there be separate championship for public and private schools?

  • coyotes22
    genghis dong wrote: I love this time of year. Why don't we give everyone a trophy, then I won't have to hear you fags cry about who has an advantage. Shut up and play football!
    If they could figure out how, it will only be a matter of time before they have 10-12 teams making the playoffs in football. Esp. with these teams not making the playoffs at 8-2, 9-1, 7-3.

    I say it should go back to just the top 4 teams of each region. Why should high school kids be playing a schedule that is two weeks shorter than a NFL schedule? Then, how many of these kids, jump right on the court, and start basketball. No wonder our kids grades are dropping. :dodgy:
  • newarkcatholicfan
    Even a blind person could see that some private schools, some, not all have a very unfair advantage over not only public schools but other private schools.
  • genghis dong
    Wow I've never seen anybody change some ones user name to crack on them. Who did I crap on?
  • coyotes22
    Cmhs74 wrote: Texas has a conference for the private schools and it does quite well but there are plenty of private schools in the Houston area for schools to play each other. OPSAA, did you attend Cardinal Mooney? When I enrolled at the school they never asked if I played football or any other sport. I went there for the education as did the rest of my family. My mother was a graduate of Ursuline and wanted us to have a good Catholic educaiton. None of us played sports. Due to the cost of tuition the enrollment is low but slowly growing. Coyote said the publics shouldn't schedule them, well look at the travel schedule of Mooney, that's already happening. When Mooney went 0 - 10 around 2000 I didn't see any of these threads. Now that they are winning, it's all about enrollment and choosing who you let into the school. Pretty sad. Lastly I'd like to thank SQ for his support of the private schools. He doesn't (or didn't) go to one but if you look at his posts he brings up many valid points. GO CARDS, GO IRISH, GO PRIVATES................
    I should have edited that. What I meant was, if you dont want to play them, dont schedule them. I dont care. We have played a Private almost every year now, for a long time. Whether it be Iggy, or Ursuline, or Big Mo. I say we (Massillon) should play them, if we want to continue to claim to be an Ohio powerhouse, and worth being mentioned on the national level.

    Like I also said earlier, I too am tired of hearing this debate.
  • coyotes22
    newarkcatholicfan wrote: Even a blind person could see that some private schools, some, not all have a very unfair advantage over not only public schools but other private schools.
    I must say, and I said this on another thread earlier today. I watched the Mooney game. Holy Moley!!!!!! What kinda weight training program do they have over there!!!!!!!! I swear every Mooney player had a pair of guns on them!!! They all looking like they could bench 500lbs. I was very impressed!!!

    Now, that tells me that they TRAIN HARD, and want to win. Hey, theres an idea, train hard, work your butt off, give 100%. If you still cant win, then you have nothing to be ashamed of, b/c you know you did your best, there just happened to be some one better than you that night!
  • OPSAA
    Like I also said earlier, I too am tired of hearing this debate. - coyotes22

    Like I said- " The truth isn't always popular, but it's still the truth"

    PS - A scholarship program and genetics have no effect, right?
  • coyotes22
    OPSAA wrote:
    Its funny you private guys crap on each other all year, but man you close ranks when it looks like the Publics might be ready to end your scam.

    OHIO PUBLIC SCHOOL ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION
    LMAO!!! You say that, like it is some underground operation going on!!!!!

    :D
  • genghis dong
    coyotes22 wrote:
    newarkcatholicfan wrote: Even a blind person could see that some private schools, some, not all have a very unfair advantage over not only public schools but other private schools.
    I must say, and I said this on another thread earlier today. I watched the Mooney game. Holy Moley!!!!!! What kinda weight training program do they have over there!!!!!!!! I swear every Mooney player had a pair of guns on them!!! They all looking like they could bench 500lbs. I was very impressed!!!

    Now, that tells me that they TRAIN HARD, and want to win. Hey, theres an idea, train hard, work your butt off, give 100%. If you still cant win, then you have nothing to be ashamed of, b/c you know you did your best, there just happened to be some one better than you that night!
    That sounds good, but it's easier to blame somebody when you lose than to work harder and get better.
  • newarkcatholicfan
    I'm not a believer that all schools that are not winning isn't working as hard.

    When certain schools have twice the numbers of players on their team then other teams who are suppose to be the same size no matter how hard they work the numbers are going to catch up with them.
  • coyotes22
    genghis dong wrote:

    That sounds good, but it's easier to blame somebody when you lose than to work harder and get better.
    And believe me when I say this. If ANYBODY knows about losing to the Private schools, it would be ME!!!! Them damn Private schools have our number!!!!! :D
  • Dean Wormer
    newarkcatholicfan wrote: I'm not a believer that all schools that are not winning isn't working as hard.

    When certain schools have twice the numbers of players on their team then other teams who are suppose to be the same size no matter how hard they work the numbers are going to catch up with them.
    I understand what you are saying newark. Maybe that's why there isn't much of a band at Mooney. Maybe the majority of the boys are playing football instead of the flute.
  • coyotes22
    newarkcatholicfan wrote: I'm not a believer that all schools that are not winning isn't working as hard.

    When certain schools have twice the numbers of players on their team then other teams who are suppose to be the same size no matter how hard they work the numbers are going to catch up with them.
    You mean like in the Division I 2005 State championship game? St. X and Massillon. We have 530 boys. They have what, like 1100. But, we made some mistakes, and still only lost by 7. No excuses, we blew it.
  • catchr22
    So, if you are a small school with 48 players on your sideline, you have decent numbers, so you automatically are supposed to win. Don't buy it when you get contributions from less than half!!!
  • OPSAA
    Here it is, a solution! All private school athletes in the Youngstown area will be pooled when they are freshman. A yearly draft will take place at Jim Trafficants house and each Youngstown public school ala fantasy football will draft said freshman. Then that player belongs to that public school for the next 4 years. If as you say the Ursuline or Mooney experience is all about Education , then this shouldnt effect that at all. Can we plan the draft or what?
  • newarkcatholicfan
    Dean Wormer wrote:
    newarkcatholicfan wrote: I'm not a believer that all schools that are not winning isn't working as hard.

    When certain schools have twice the numbers of players on their team then other teams who are suppose to be the same size no matter how hard they work the numbers are going to catch up with them.
    I understand what you are saying newark. Maybe that's why there isn't much of a band at Mooney. Maybe the majority of the boys are playing football instead of the flute.
    There are several schools with no bands that do not have the numbers of other schools.

    Certain schools have no choice in who goes there if they live in the school district as where other schools can and do say no thank you.

    I do not care if things stay the way they are or if they change.
    I root for a private school who at one time I.M.O. had some advantages they no longer have.

    The topic makes for goot post(by some) others are blind or want you to think they are blind to the fact that their are advantages some school have over others.
  • SQ_Crazies
    newarkcatholicfan wrote:
    SQ_Crazies wrote:
    coyotes22 wrote:
    SQ_Crazies wrote:
    HeathAlum21 wrote: I think there are already too many state champions as it is. I would rather see a three division system, but it won't happen because of the financial aspect.
    Now that is an idea that makes way more sense than seperate divisions.

    What I really don't get is why isn't everyone climbing on the back of the private schools who don't win? There are plenty of private schools who are terrible at football. And as far as more football players--maybe the tradition of the school makes more kids want to go out for the sport...or maybe that makes too much sense for some cry babies to understand. I went to a public school and if we wanted a state title we would have had to beat private schools. It's happened before and it will happen again--it's incredible that this debate continues every year to no end. It's pointless, drop it. If you want to win then beat them, don't run from them. I just watched a Coldwater team that could definitely compete with Ursuline--turnovers cost them a chance to win the game, not superior athletes. And most of these kids start going to these schools as freshman--it's their fault that they develop talent better at a handful of schools?
    BUT, as a quick example. Right here in Stark county. St. Thomas A next to Louisville. Central Catholic right in the heart of Stark. CCC boarders Perry, McKinley and Massillon. Not fair to jump their backs. They have some powerhouse to compete for, player wise.

    ^Wait, so you're saying that they can't get the kids because they chose to go to the better public football school? So isn't it the same thing? If you were from Youngstown and were good at football and had a choice of schools where would you pick?

    And don't give me that, the Mahoning Valley is littered with great public school programs as well.
    How many of those great Mahoning Valley public schools have multiple state titles and are on top almost each year?
    How many schools do period? Not many. But isn't this about the players? Please make yourself look foolish enough to try and debate this with me. There are public schools all over the Mahoning Valley churning out college talent (a lot of D1) every year. But Mooney is just a Mahoning Valley All Star team right? I'll tell you what, rarely does Mooney have the best 2 or 3 players in the area--they just have great teams because they're well coached and they work harder. They have more kids out for football because of their tradition. If you go to Mooney you play football. West Branch and Salem are both public schools and roughly the same size--West Branch almost always has more kids out for football than Salem and it's because if you're a dude at WB you play football.
    Jimmie Copas wrote: How about having private schools compete at Division 1 level in tournamments/playoffs ?
    LOL and that makes it fair how? But the best part about it is--you tell Mooney they have to play in D1 for the playoffs, they'd say bring it on. MAYBE they go in and lose for the first few years--but I promise you, let them work at it and they'd be the best in D1 too. Even with the same number of kids they have now.
    Cmhs74 wrote: Lastly I'd like to thank SQ for his support of the private schools. He doesn't (or didn't) go to one but if you look at his posts he brings up many valid points. GO CARDS, GO IRISH, GO PRIVATES................
    You're right, I didn't. I went to Salem. But the bottom line is, they're all high school kids. People talk about Mooney as if they have 25 year olds suiting up for them. It's BS. What I say is go privates, go publics, go everybody! Stop getting caught up in the game so much, what it's really about is education and getting kids to the next level however possible--Mooney does a tremendous job at that. If you want to win then beat them, plain and simple. In Indiana they used to have ONE division for basketball and people loved it. You can thank them for the movie Hoosiers. In fact when my dad was playing basketball in Indiana he led his team to an elite eight appearance and they were being tabbed as the new "Hoosiers". They had been playing schools much bigger than them and beating them. In the Elite Eight they matched up with a team from Indy who had 3 players that ended up in the NBA (their smallest starter was their 6'3 PG--they had a 7 footer and two over 6'8 just in the starting line up--my dad was 5'8 and the biggest kid on their team was 6'3) and graduating classes over 800. My dad's graduating class had 50. They got destroyed, something like 106-50. My dad will tell you to this day that he didn't care how much bigger a school they were, those guys put in the same time they did and they were playing the same game--they were just more talented. There will always be greater and lesser persons than yourself--a lesson that some people clearly need to learn.
  • Dean Wormer
    I have heard all of the arguments about advantages because of population. But this affects public schools also. In Youngstown the population shift to the areas of Boardman, Poland, and Canfield started in the late 70's to early 80's. Isn't it ironic that the football programs at these schools started to flourish and the city schools started to decline? So it's not just a private thing it happens all over to all schools especially in the inner city.
  • rmolin73
    OPSAA wrote: Here it is, a solution! All private school athletes in the Youngstown area will be pooled when they are freshman. A yearly draft will take place at Jim Trafficants house and each Youngstown public school ala fantasy football will draft said freshman. Then that player belongs to that public school for the next 4 years. If as you say the Ursuline or Mooney experience is all about Education , then this shouldnt effect that at all. Can we plan the draft or what?
    What a joke you can't be serious.
  • SQ_Crazies
    rmolin73 wrote:
    OPSAA wrote: Here it is, a solution! All private school athletes in the Youngstown area will be pooled when they are freshman. A yearly draft will take place at Jim Trafficants house and each Youngstown public school ala fantasy football will draft said freshman. Then that player belongs to that public school for the next 4 years. If as you say the Ursuline or Mooney experience is all about Education , then this shouldnt effect that at all. Can we plan the draft or what?
    What a joke you can't be serious.
    He probably is!

    I bet Mooney's coach would say whatever, do the draft. And they'd still be better than every other team from the area. Coaching, hard work and preparation are being overlooked big time.
  • GoChiefs
    Public or Private..does not matter..nobody can compete with Youngstown football. They are the gods of the sport. Nobody else even needs to get on the field. :cool:
  • Jimmie Copas
    coyotes22...I have nothing to "get over" I'm not complaining,just offered a suggestion.
  • rmolin73
    SQ_Crazies wrote:
    rmolin73 wrote:
    OPSAA wrote: Here it is, a solution! All private school athletes in the Youngstown area will be pooled when they are freshman. A yearly draft will take place at Jim Trafficants house and each Youngstown public school ala fantasy football will draft said freshman. Then that player belongs to that public school for the next 4 years. If as you say the Ursuline or Mooney experience is all about Education , then this shouldnt effect that at all. Can we plan the draft or what?
    What a joke you can't be serious.
    He probably is!

    I bet Mooney's coach would say whatever, do the draft. And they'd still be better than every other team from the area. Coaching, hard work and preparation are being overlooked big time.
    Your are absolutely right SQ Crazies.
  • ytownfootball
    Can't believe we're still debating this after all these years. If you want to implement a multiplier for privates, fine but I'm not for it. It's been stated on here plenty of times that what choices are made by families that send their kids to privates are their own, maybe there's something to it that separates them from what publics do? Maybe it's focus. Maybe it's determination. Maybe it's hard work. Maybe it's coaching. Maybe it's faith.

    My guess is it's a combination of all those things, and it's something that won't be duplicated by publics anytime soon. Sure they get a decent team every now and again. But when you really stop to think about it, publics cannot match the singular focus of a private. Just can't do it because of the "public" moniker.
  • OPSAA
    rmolin, not serious at all just very amused that this thread is taking a life of its own.

    I still like the idea of privates playing up.
    Now this is only good for D5 , other divisions would be tweeked slightly.. If the boys on the team are say 40% or higher of enrollment (like Ursuline) you play up 2 divisions , 30% to 39% up 1 division , 29% or less same division.
    Using this formula a D5 school with 170 boys in the school would be D3 if they dress 68 or more players, D4 if they dress 51 to 67 and same division if they dress 50 or less .
  • rmolin73
    What about the not successful private schools? So just because a few (same schools) are good you punish everybody?

    D6 private school powers

    Sandusky St. Maty 1-9
    Cleveland Heights Lutheran East 2-8
    Bedford ST. Peter Chanel 4-5
    Youngstown Christian 6-4
    Fostoria St. Wendelin 0-10
    Oregon Cardinal Strich 1-9
    Toledo Christian 6-4
    Lancaster Fairfield Christian Academy 0-8
    Bellaire St. John Central 2-8
    Steubenville Central Catholic 2-8
    Columbus Harvest Prep 2-8
    Lancaster Fisher Catholic 4-6

    D5 private school powers
    Rocky River Lutheran West 0-10
    Louisville St. Thomas Aquinas 3-7
    Gates Mill Gilmour 2-8
    Cincy Clark Montessori 3-6
    Miamisburg Dayton Christian 3-6
    Cincy Summit Country Day 5-5

    Yeah make these schools move up to D3 and D4. What a joke. Also you are basing this off of how many kids come out for football that is equally stupid.