Should there be separate championship for public and private schools?

• Cmhs74

  OPSAA wrote: Here it is, a solution! All private school athletes in the Youngstown area will be pooled when they are freshman. A yearly draft will take place at Jim Trafficants house and each Youngstown public school ala fantasy football will draft said freshman. Then that player belongs to that public school for the next 4 years. If as you say the Ursuline or Mooney experience is all about Education , then this shouldnt effect that at all. Can we plan the draft or what?

  
  OPSAA, I tip my hat to you, your good at taking one thought and changing it all around. In my post I said my family went to Mooney and Ursuline for the education. I did not say all students do. If during my day I was talented enough to play football I'd have loved playing for Mooney and being coached by Dom Bucci, Ron Stoops Sr., Ted Lolakis, Tony Congemi, and others. Mooney has an elite football program and the better players in the Youngstown area know that. If a student wants to go there to better his football skills all power to him. Another thing, most go to Mooney or Ursuline so they don't have to go to a public school in Youngstown. But don't worry, they still pay their taxes.
• Mooney44Cards

  

  Mooney has probably the greatest football youth football camp in the entire country. When you have a summer football camp for Mooney football where you are being taught fundamentals by the likes of Bob and Mike Stoops, Jim Tressel, Mark Mangino, Kirk Herbstreit, Gino Toretta, the list goes on and on, you get young kids excited about playing football for Cardinal Mooney, excited about winning a state championship and hopefully being lucky enough to get a scholarship to play at a big time program. The Mooney program is a well run program from the bottom up, and believe me, by the time they get to high school they have learned from some great coaches who know what they are doing, and KNOW they can win a state championship.
• SQ_Crazies

  

  ^No that's all total bullshit--doesn't really happen--they just pay 25 year olds to play for them!
• CenterBHSFan

  

  Just a couple of thoughts to add my 2 pennies in.
  
  First of all, I notice that most of the gripes seem to be against Mooney. Hmmm... Why?
  
  As a Bellaire fan, I can proudly say that we have played Mooney 4 times. Beat them twice, the 3rd game was close (granted, their qb was injured in that game) and the last time they blew us out of the water. But the fact is, it was Bellaire from region 15!!! Maybe we got lucky for a few years or maybe Mooney was down or maybe we just had a good crop of kids that worked really hard, had good coaching and so on.
  ......
  
  OPSAA, your first post. It seems as though your "almost" arguing for division counts according to football enrollment as opposed to student enrollment. If that's what you're hinting at, I find it interesting. I might be wrong, but that's how I took your first post.
  But let's look at that for a minute.
  I am NOT a supporter of adding multiplyers or bumping up divisions for private/catholic schools. But counting an average of students who dress for football over a certain set amount of years (say 5 years) and then placing a division according to that is something I've never heard of before and makes more sense than multiplyers.
  Not that I would like an alternate system like that, it just seems interesting for me.
  ......
  
  One thing to keep in mind, is that records and word of mouth are the best "recruiting" tools ever. No ifs ands or buts about it. If you're a natural born athlete who excels at football and had to choose between going to Mooney or a school that never has a winning football record, what are you going to do? What if your really "that" good and want a better chance to be scouted, would you go to Mooney or another school that doesn't have a winning football record?
• GoChiefs

  

  I agree with the..to be the best..you gotta beat the best. I'm one that says leave it the way it is.
• tank2nasty

  AGREED !
  Don't try to fix sumn' that ain't broke!
• big_red_drummer

  

  OPSAA wrote: Ursuline Regional- Aurora Inkstop Field
  St. Henry Regional - Centerville stadium
  Both are awesome facilities
  Public schools Fredericktown and Ridgewood get a regional at - Johnstown Monroe wow

  St. Henry didn't play any playoff games at Centerville this year.
  
  St. Henry is a public school.
• Strapping Young Lad

  

  Ever think maybe Jesus just loves the private school kids more....why would God help the public school heathens win????
• OPSAA

  Ive decided you are Right...4 divisions 6 out of 8 teams are privates ...just a coincidence. This is exactly what the OHSAA dreamed when they created 6 divisions.
• gamauter

  

  CenterBHSFan wrote: Just a couple of thoughts to add my 2 pennies in.
  
  First of all, I notice that most of the gripes seem to be against Mooney. Hmmm... Why?
  
  As a Bellaire fan, I can proudly say that we have played Mooney 4 times. Beat them twice, the 3rd game was close (granted, their qb was injured in that game) and the last time they blew us out of the water. But the fact is, it was Bellaire from region 15!!! Maybe we got lucky for a few years or maybe Mooney was down or maybe we just had a good crop of kids that worked really hard, had good coaching and so on.
  ......
  If you want to use the number of kids who dress as what determines what division I am in, I will dress my 45 best players and start a club team for the ones who aren't good enough to play for my team.
  OPSAA, your first post. It seems as though your "almost" arguing for division counts according to football enrollment as opposed to student enrollment. If that's what you're hinting at, I find it interesting. I might be wrong, but that's how I took your first post.
  But let's look at that for a minute.
  I am NOT a supporter of adding multiplyers or bumping up divisions for private/catholic schools. But counting an average of students who dress for football over a certain set amount of years (say 5 years) and then placing a division according to that is something I've never heard of before and makes more sense than multiplyers.
  Not that I would like an alternate system like that, it just seems interesting for me.
  ......
  
  One thing to keep in mind, is that records and word of mouth are the best "recruiting" tools ever. No ifs ands or buts about it. If you're a natural born athlete who excels at football and had to choose between going to Mooney or a school that never has a winning football record, what are you going to do? What if your really "that" good and want a better chance to be scouted, would you go to Mooney or another school that doesn't have a winning football record?

  If you are going to count the number of players who dress, I will just keep my best 45 and start a club team for the kids who couldn't make the school team.
• Jimmie Copas

  If its truly about the education,what difference does it make which division they compete in athletically ?
• Rocket08

  I only glanced a some of these posts since it seems to be the same old tripe as always.
  
  Here's the bottom line (IMHO) for what it's worth
  
  Many believe that the Ohio Football Playoff system is the best, or at least one of the best in the entire country. In spite of the fact that the OHSAA offers bids to other parts of the state, the finals are not leaving Stark County any time soon. The 2 day tournamnet is excellent overall.
  
  That being said, there will never be separated divisions in Ohio for Public Schools and Private Schools. It's just not going to happen. In spite of what some say, the states with these systems basically have nothing to offer. Who's the last HS football power that you ever heard of from New York, I mean seriously.
  
  Since the advent of the playoff system in 1972, Private Schools are every bit the lore of High School football in Ohio as the Public Schools. The OHSAA is not going to remove a 10 time champion, or a 7 time champion and put them in a different division. It's not going to happen. EVER!!
  
  
  The private schools aren't stupid, they'd start their own division the next day, then you'd have a real mess and no one would ever know who's best
  
  If some of you want to start the OPSAA have at it. I notice the posters that put this out there are form schools that got beat by small Private Schools in the playoffs. Guess what, you really weren't that good anyway. You had nice regular seasons in your own little world, but what if you got farther in the tourney, you were still going to get whooped. So go ahead and leave, no one will notice. Sorry, but that's the truth.
  
  The successful public powers wouldn't want separate playoffs. Ask Coldwater if they would have rather played a public school the 2 times they beat Mooney. We all know the answer to that. If Mooney had played Alter that year in a Private School playoff, the rest of the state would not know how good Coldwater really was. That would have been a travesty. And I guarantee you that Mooney would have rather lost that game than been crowned the State Champion in some hokey Private School division.
  
  I know that some of you don't want to hear this, but it's the truth. You're going to have to get better. The entire MAC league has. Steubenville has. I think Hilliard Davidson and Colerain have. Many, many others continue to do it every year. Look at D2!
  
  Get better. If you want to have your own league, enjoy life (great example for your kids by the way: If you can't beat 'em, whine about 'em and run.)
  
  We all also know we'll continue to have this discussion. If 2 privates win today, there will be even more complaining.
  
  But bottom line, it's not going to change. Figure it out
• SVCougar1978

  september63 wrote: NO!! It used to bother me a little but with open enrollment now that eliminates this myth about privates having advantages. In theory now, any kid can play at any school!! Look no further than NC Hoover and 2 time Mr. Football, Erick Howard.

  Myth? Privates having an advantage is a myth? That is a joke. Nonetheless, I agree with you on not having seperate championships. As a Sylvania Southview fan it makes the 2008 DII State Championship all the sweeter that every kid on that team lived in the Southview district. We did lose Jack Mewhort to Toledo St. Johns.
• Al Bundy

  Let's just go to 710 divisions (or however many schools have football this year). Then everyone can be given......i mean earn.....a state championship.
• newarkcatholicfan

  

  When all schools can decide whom, they want attending their school things will never be close to being fair.
  
  Under the system we have some schools can and do in a way pick just who they want and whom they do not want.
• Al Bundy

  newarkcatholicfan wrote: When all schools can decide whom, they want attending their school things will never be close to being fair.
  
  Under the system we have some schools can and do in a way pick just who they want and whom they do not want.

  With open enrollment every school in the state has the option to open up their school to anyone.
• Blitzkrieg

  Mooney44Cards wrote: Mooney has probably the greatest football youth football camp in the entire country. When you have a summer football camp for Mooney football where you are being taught fundamentals by the likes of Bob and Mike Stoops, Jim Tressel, Mark Mangino, Kirk Herbstreit, Gino Toretta, the list goes on and on, .

  Name any Ohio public school's in villages of 5000 or less people that can bring in this kind of talent to a youth football camp?
• newarkcatholicfan

  

  Al Bundy wrote:

  newarkcatholicfan wrote: When all schools can decide whom, they want attending their school things will never be close to being fair.
  
  Under the system we have some schools can and do in a way pick just who they want and whom they do not want.

  With open enrollment every school in the state has the option to open up their school to anyone.

  Every school offers open enrollment and the public schools can tell a kid that lives in the town the school is in can tell the local kid no we do not want you here?
• Blitzkrieg

  Al Bundy wrote: With open enrollment every school in the state has the option to open up their school to anyone.

  Mercer County - 40,000 people. Mahoning County 238,000 people.
  
  And according to the U.S. Census Bureau's 2007 estimate, the Youngstown-Warren-Boardman area contains 570,000 people.
  
  Do you see an advantage in the number of available kids to attract to a school or are you really just that stupid.
• Al Bundy

  Blitzkrieg wrote:

  Al Bundy wrote: With open enrollment every school in the state has the option to open up their school to anyone.

  Mercer County - 40,000 people. Mahoning County 238,000 people.
  
  Do you see an advantage in the number of available kids to attract to a school or are you really just that stupid.

  They both can draw from anywhere in the state. How many high schools are there in Mercer County?
• Dean Wormer

  Blitzkrieg wrote:

  Mooney44Cards wrote: Mooney has probably the greatest football youth football camp in the entire country. When you have a summer football camp for Mooney football where you are being taught fundamentals by the likes of Bob and Mike Stoops, Jim Tressel, Mark Mangino, Kirk Herbstreit, Gino Toretta, the list goes on and on, .

  Name any Ohio public school's in villages of 5000 or less people that can bring in this kind of talent to a youth football camp?

  Bob, Mike, and Mark Stoops all graduated from Mooney. The other coaches are friends of the Stoops brothers or former coaches with them. That is why they come to the camp. If the Stoops brothers graduated from Steubenville this camp would probably be at Harding stadium. But they didn't and the camp is at Mooney. So shoot us for having successful alumni.
• Cmhs74

  If it will make people happy go ahead and petition to move Mooney up to Division 2, it won't bother them. Maybe then they can get a few local teams to play them and they won't have to travel so far.
• Al Bundy

  Cmhs74 wrote: If it will make people happy go ahead and petition to move Mooney up to Division 2, it won't bother them. Maybe then they can get a few local teams to play them and they won't have to travel so far.

  Then all the D2 schools will complain that the multiplier isn't far to them. :rolleyes:
• pretender

  Small rural communities have fewer kids to pull from. Open enrollment you can draw from anywhere in the state you can’t be serious. How many people in today’s economics times can afford to send there child across the state to go to school? Also if you open enroll then you have to sit out one year, but if you enroll in a private school do you have to sit out a year? (not sure) So what advantage is there to open enrollment if you are not going to play for a year? Coshocton County has a total population of around 37,000 of which 2,800 are young adults between the ages of 15 to 19. That number includes both boys and girls. Coshocton County has 3 school districts in it DIII, DIV, DV. To say that living in a larger area has no advantages is wrong. I will say that the area teams might need to step up there play but to say they have the same amount of talent to draw on is crazy. I hope Coshocton and Ridgewood learn from the experience this year in the playoffs and build on it and who knows what might happen, but I know one thing I will be around to see it.(I hope)
• RoyalNut

  

  "Should there be separate championship for public and private schools?"
  
  
  yes.