DIVISION 6 STATE CHAMPIONS Norwalk St. Paul def. Delphos St. John's 24-21

• JHBJ

  zaurus wrote: It's a good thing 3 of the teams mentioned weren't in region 21 they wouldn't have made the playoffs. arlington, rawson and grove don't get in, in region 21. So trying to compare shedules in the manner that you are really doesn't carry much weight does it. Or maybe the flyers were battle tested after all.

  Where did he say NSP wasn't battle tested? He posted the numbers up for fun, just some interesting facts to contribute to the conversation. Guess someone always has to take it personally though don't they?
  
  The simple fact is this, St. Johns has had the tougher Regular season schedule and arguably the tougher playoff run because of Ada and Marion. Would NSP have made it this far if they were in Region 22 and DSJ was in 21? Who knows but I do know who I would put my money on if they were, and it wouldn't be NSP.
• zaurus

  ruffled some feathers i guess just posted it for fun. The DSJ and MAC faithful want to preach to others anout how tough their road is -- no kidding what do you think others playing outside the MAC don't realize that. Boy you guys get all defensive when one tries to spin the numbers the other way. Just done in fun and to ruffle feathers -- yes it worked!!!
• hotrods300

  greyjay wrote: What can we expect to see from NSP ? What type of offense , defense do they run . Player size and speed . How many play both sides of the ball ?
  
  Go JAYS : GO MAC

  With NSP expect the unexpected, their coach will have something up his sleeve. NSP is small in size but very quick and strong, so don't be fooled by their size. This is where I see a problem for St Pauls, I believe the 4 or 5 studs on offense also play on defense. Most all of the regular season they play a half of football sometimes a part of the third quarter before they are pulled for the night. If Delphos can play ball control they could cause problems for the flyers late in the game. How many players does DSJ have playing both sides of the ball?
• MessyDinosaur

  hotrods300 wrote:

  greyjay wrote: What can we expect to see from NSP ? What type of offense , defense do they run . Player size and speed . How many play both sides of the ball ?
  
  Go JAYS : GO MAC

  This is where I see a problem for St Pauls, I believe the 4 or 5 studs on offense also play on defense. Most all of the regular season they play a half of football sometimes a part of the third quarter before they are pulled for the night. If Delphos can play ball control they could cause problems for the flyers late in the game. How many players does DSJ have playing both sides of the ball?

  I thought this would be a problem also, but the Wynford game proved me wrong. These kids are conditioned just as well as anyone else.
• 94hoops

  For NSP to win, and I think they will, they will have to stop Ulm. You can't over pursue him on the option as he is extremely dangerous when he cuts it back. When he drops back to pass, NSP needs the initial pressure to result in tackles for loss or quick throws. If he is able to scramble out of the pocket after 3 or 4 seconds, his receivers will be extremely hard to contain downfield. Ulm is the key in my mind.
• Arnold

  greyjay wrote: What can we expect to see from NSP ? What type of offense , defense do they run . Player size and speed . How many play both sides of the ball ?
  
  Go JAYS : GO MAC

  St Paul does lots of different things on offense, from full house backfield to spread. You can't really peg them as being a passing or running team. They usually try to establish the run first and pass on their own terms. There have been a couple of teams that loaded up on the run, so they passed the ball down the field and then ran the ball after loosening up the D (what I expect will happen Saturday). Both offensive and defensive lines have very quick feet and are very disciplined.
  On defense the 4-4 with predominantly man coverage and probably some variations I am not aware of. The defense has outstanding athletes at all the backfield spots, kids who are also good baseball and basketball players and have an uncanny nose for the ball. Three or four of them have state-level track speed. Overall they will be the quickest and fastest defense DSJ will play this year. I would imagine DSJ will outweigh them substantially at every position, SP has no defensive players over 190. SP's program typically wins every year with smaller players. Livengood shold be coach of the year every year IMO, no one gets more out of his players, pound for pound. They win with disclipline, execution, and conditioning, and this year, a lot of speed. Typically they have only one or two penalties per game. You won't see many false starts, offsides, or unsportsmanlikes from them.
  SP has eight players that play both ways (it is div 6 football, eh?).
• wesflyer87

  Messy..you're absolutely right about the Wynford game. I thought NSP's conditioning was glaringly apparent in the 4th quarter. That is when their defense really shut down Wynford aided by some mental errors (false start penalties by Wynford). I thought the D really stepped up & won that game for the Flyers. The Wynford errors could be attributed to fatigue on their own part, which will not be the case with DSJ, but you're right, I don't see fatigue playing a roll in this one. (Although just watching that Ledinger (spell?) kid run the ball tends to wear me out. lol. Glad the Flyers are in a heck of a lot better shape than me!!
• Sportscaster17

  Good sign for the Flyers last night...
  
  I was playing roulette at an out-of-state establishment and decided to put money down on the St. Paul seniors' numbers. Wouldn't you know it the number 8 came up for a big payout. The roulette wheel is of course colored red, white and black.
  
  It may not be founded much in logic, but I feel good about the match-up now! =)
• the_system

  MessyDinosaur wrote:

  hotrods300 wrote:

  greyjay wrote: What can we expect to see from NSP ? What type of offense , defense do they run . Player size and speed . How many play both sides of the ball ?
  
  Go JAYS : GO MAC

  This is where I see a problem for St Pauls, I believe the 4 or 5 studs on offense also play on defense. Most all of the regular season they play a half of football sometimes a part of the third quarter before they are pulled for the night. If Delphos can play ball control they could cause problems for the flyers late in the game. How many players does DSJ have playing both sides of the ball?

  I thought this would be a problem also, but the Wynford game proved me wrong. These kids are conditioned just as well as anyone else.

  DSJ would steam-roll Wynford. Comparing how NSP did against Wynford, who was just as tired I'm sure, to Delphos is crazy talk. When they do warmups they take up every inch of turf from the 50 to the endzone. It takes about 2 solid minutes for their team to run out onto the field from the locker room at the beginning of the game. They play a few both ways, but those guys get a break quite a bit too keep them fresh. Q4 comes around and you're sucking wind and trying to tackle a blazing fast QB and a 6'2" 215lb running back.
• Arnold

  [/quote]
  
  DSJ would steam-roll Wynford. Comparing how NSP did against Wynford, who was just as tired I'm sure, to Delphos is crazy talk. When they do warmups they take up every inch of turf from the 50 to the endzone. It takes about 2 solid minutes for their team to run out onto the field from the locker room at the beginning of the game. They play a few both ways, but those guys get a break quite a bit too keep them fresh. Q4 comes around and you're sucking wind and trying to tackle a blazing fast QB and a 6'2" 215lb running back.
  [/quote]
  
  We all know they have 80 players in uniform. Great program.
  Brause for Wynford was 6'4 and 225 with a 4.6 40. I don't know how his speed compares to Ulm, but his speed was not the challenge for SP, it was his change of direction, quick feet. And it seemed to me he was very strong in the lower body, hard to bring down. The thing with DSJ is, they're not just a one trick pony, if St Paul can somehow manage to slow down the run, they have other weapons. Fatigue should not be an issue for St Paul, they are very well conditioned, but this will be a big challenge for the St Paul D. I think they are up to it this year. We'll find out in 4 days.
• ChiBears34

  Arnold, did you see Ulm's performance in the championship game last year. That will give you his speed and change of direction. And he had 199 yards rushing and over 100 yards passing.
• BlueJayRay

  Arnold wrote:

  greyjay wrote: What can we expect to see from NSP ? What type of offense , defense do they run . Player size and speed . How many play both sides of the ball ?
  
  Go JAYS : GO MAC

  St Paul does lots of different things on offense, from full house backfield to spread. You can't really peg them as being a passing or running team. They usually try to establish the run first and pass on their own terms. There have been a couple of teams that loaded up on the run, so they passed the ball down the field and then ran the ball after loosening up the D (what I expect will happen Saturday). Both offensive and defensive lines have very quick feet and are very disciplined.
  On defense the 4-4 with predominantly man coverage and probably some variations I am not aware of. The defense has outstanding athletes at all the backfield spots, kids who are also good baseball and basketball players and have an uncanny nose for the ball. Three or four of them have state-level track speed. Overall they will be the quickest and fastest defense DSJ will play this year. I would imagine DSJ will outweigh them substantially at every position, SP has no defensive players over 190. SP's program typically wins every year with smaller players. Livengood shold be coach of the year every year IMO, no one gets more out of his players, pound for pound. They win with disclipline, execution, and conditioning, and this year, a lot of speed. Typically they have only one or two penalties per game. You won't see many false starts, offsides, or unsportsmanlikes from them.
  SP has eight players that play both ways (it is div 6 football, eh?).

  If they go with a 4-4 D, Leininger will average 8 yards a carry!
• Arnold

  [/quote]
  
  If they go with a 4-4 D, Leininger will average 8 yards a carry!
  [/quote]
  
  Can you flesh that out for us a little?
• MessyDinosaur

  the_system wrote:

  MessyDinosaur wrote:

  hotrods300 wrote:

  greyjay wrote: What can we expect to see from NSP ? What type of offense , defense do they run . Player size and speed . How many play both sides of the ball ?
  
  Go JAYS : GO MAC

  This is where I see a problem for St Pauls, I believe the 4 or 5 studs on offense also play on defense. Most all of the regular season they play a half of football sometimes a part of the third quarter before they are pulled for the night. If Delphos can play ball control they could cause problems for the flyers late in the game. How many players does DSJ have playing both sides of the ball?

  I thought this would be a problem also, but the Wynford game proved me wrong. These kids are conditioned just as well as anyone else.

  DSJ would steam-roll Wynford. Comparing how NSP did against Wynford, who was just as tired I'm sure, to Delphos is crazy talk. When they do warmups they take up every inch of turf from the 50 to the endzone. It takes about 2 solid minutes for their team to run out onto the field from the locker room at the beginning of the game. They play a few both ways, but those guys get a break quite a bit too keep them fresh. Q4 comes around and you're sucking wind and trying to tackle a blazing fast QB and a 6'2" 215lb running back.

  Why and how would Delphos steamroll Wynford? It doesn't matter if you have 80 players or 65 if your kids are well conditioned. I see it like playing 2 games, both halves. If you are in a good enough condition halftime is enough to rest, not fully, but enough to come out hard and play another half.
  And St.Paul playing a a full game against Wynford and a full game against Delphos is the same thing. Last I checked each quarter was 12 minutes. A full game is a full game.
• Sonofanump

  Dr. Drew predicts DSJ by 10 with a 76% chance of winning.
  Kinda along the lines that I expected.
  
  ...that means NSP will need to win the turnover margin and big play differential.
• 0311sdp

  I've seen both DSJ play (ADA) and Wynford play (H-L) , in your arrogance DSJ you may think that you would steam roll Wynford but NO WAY! Wynford had the best D-6 QB that I've seen in quite a while and your defense (DSJ) was a major disappointment. Having played the last 2 playoff games in O.T. I would have thought that most of the cockiness and we're the greatest ever attitude would be gone but I guess not.
• norwalk

  No doubt, they have played back to back overtime games yet they can't be beat? They are beatable and I believe with the heart the SP seniors have they are more than capable to do so. Obvisously DSJ has the tradition and program and should be the favorites but we will see on saturday.
  
  St. Paul 35
  DSJ 27
• underdog32

  ChiBears34 wrote: Arnold, did you see Ulm's performance in the championship game last year. That will give you his speed and change of direction. And he had 199 yards rushing and over 100 yards passing.

  Ulm is an impressive athlete no doubt. He would have had a solid game no matter who DSJ played. I almost wondered if HL watched any game tape of DSJ, because they couldn't defend the option to save their lives. It was as if they didn't know it was coming or what it was when it happened. They just weren't a good team against the run. Once again, I am not trying to discredit Ulm, so please, no one go and get your panties in a bunch
• flyerfan64

  oozwaj wrote:

  ChiBears34 wrote:

  flyerfan64 wrote: The history doesn't matter, this is a new year and different players. it doesn't matter who eachother played earlier this year, both teams deserve to be where they are. Good luck St. Paul, go out and get the win.

  Actually who you played does matter. When you have to compete at a high level week in and week out that helps prepare you.

  Yep it sure does help prepare you...... and BEAT you up. Which I'm hoping is the case here with DSJ's

  What I should have said is history does not determine the outcome of this game, unless all of the same actions and consequences take place, thus this game will be different and games that happened ten years ago are irrelevant to the outcome of this game. As for the teams that St. Paul played during the season not being as tough, I will give you that, but St. Paul isn't any less prepared, they practice the same for every team even if they are 0-10, that is one of the reasons why St. Paul is where they are, they never overlook anyone. Go Flyers!
• rip34

  Good Luck NSP! Hope you bring home the title.
• GNCC394

  does Delphos play on turf all year the flyers are already fast on grass and the turf only adds to the speed they have
• dsjfan

  DSJ has played on turf 4 times this year, once during the regular season.
• ChiBears34

  underdog32 wrote:

  ChiBears34 wrote: Arnold, did you see Ulm's performance in the championship game last year. That will give you his speed and change of direction. And he had 199 yards rushing and over 100 yards passing.

  Ulm is an impressive athlete no doubt. He would have had a solid game no matter who DSJ played. I almost wondered if HL watched any game tape of DSJ, because they couldn't defend the option to save their lives. It was as if they didn't know it was coming or what it was when it happened. They just weren't a good team against the run. Once again, I am not trying to discredit Ulm, so please, no one go and get your panties in a bunch

  Just responding to what you said about SP having problems with Wynfords QB with his change of direction and quick feet.
• BearDSJ82

  zaurus wrote: It's a good thing 3 of the teams mentioned weren't in region 21 they wouldn't have made the playoffs. arlington, rawson and grove don't get in, in region 21. So trying to compare shedules in the manner that you are really doesn't carry much weight does it. Or maybe the flyers were battle tested after all.

  The reason that region 21 averages are higher than region 22 is simple-nobody in region 21 plays each other. Of the top 8 in R21, only McDonald played Western Reserve. While in R22, Ada vs Columbus Grove, Carey vs St Joe's. And Leipsic, Cory-Rawson and Arlington played each other.McComb and Pandora-Gilboa also in the top 11 who was in the same league as Leipsic, C-R and Arlington.
  Also R21 stretches from Seneca County all the way to the PA border, while R22 is bunched in NW Ohio. I am sure if the geographical roles were reversed, the numbers would be reversed as well.
  
  So if you want to go that route with numbers DSJ and NSP went 10-0 with DSJ ending up with a 24.95 average and NSP 19.5. I think that carries some weight, doesn't it?
• 94hoops

  It does carry weight. It says that DSJ is a slight favorite, I believe the favorite goes down in this one though 20-17.