Senate Bill 5 Targets Collective Bargaining for Elimination!

• Con_Alma

  Gblock;691506 wrote:i get what your saying about the content of the subject area however to control a classroom of 36 and to manage over 200 students a day requires a skill set that some who may teach a hs calc class may not have...let alone the ability to show athletic ability and demonstrate and teach many different sports. but your point is not lost on me.

  
  Although a precalc teach may not have those differentiating skill sets they are not ones that would make the potential pool or supply of applicants lower as compared to someone who can and is willing to teach upper level sciences and maths. That the difference in my mind.
• LJ

  

  tsst_fballfan;691507 wrote:The bold should be kind of telltale where the union actually stands. They are willing to concede teachers benefits as long as they can keep bargaining rights. Let me rephrase that. They are willing to give away teachers benefits as long as they can keep getting dues and maintain control! :shrugs: Do educated teachers not see this?! Really?! Is this who you really want standing up for you instead of yourselves?! Someone that is willing to give away your benefits as long as they still get your dues and control over you and the district?!

  
  Because they know nothing different.
• bonelizzard

  off topic.
  Want to see true winners and losers? Go check out some High School district wrestling matches in your area today and tomorrow.
  If you like that sort of thing. I do.
• ernest_t_bass

  

  tsst_fballfan;691507 wrote:The bold should be kind of telltale where the union actually stands. They are willing to concede teachers benefits as long as they can keep bargaining rights. Let me rephrase that. They are willing to give away teachers benefits as long as they can keep getting dues and maintain control! :shrugs: Do educated teachers not see this?! Really?! Is this who you really want standing up for you instead of yourselves?! Someone that is willing to give away your benefits as long as they still get your dues and control over you and the district?!

  
  I'm already outraged at the high dollars we pay in dues. I'd rather have a local association where we pay minimal dues, instead of paying large amounts so our "Reps" can go lobby with it.
  
  If they get rid of our benefit packages, and no longer allow us to bargain on it, I will fight HARD to not pay union dues.
• ernest_t_bass

  

  LJ;691513 wrote:Because they know nothing different.

  
  
  Please don't generalize. Right there is a condescending remark, about which I was talking. I DO know different, and I DO see both sides.
  
  MANY people on this thread do not "see" both sides, just their own. I see both sides.
• Gblock

  LJ;691513 wrote:Because they know nothing different.

  
  they are willing to give them up because our membership is willing to give them up...as some on here have said maybe we should be more in line with the "Private Sector"....why is that hard to understand. the union is mostly former teachers in my district and will always act in line with how the majority of its members vote. these votes usually go in the direction of what is best for all. i get that this may not be whats best for every individual in the union.
• Con_Alma

  bonelizzard;691514 wrote:off topic.
  Want to see true winners and losers? Go check out some High School district wrestling matches in your area today and tomorrow.
  If you like that sort of thing. I do.

  
  Snowed out.
• LJ

  

  Gblock;691521 wrote:they are willing to give them up because our membership is willing to give them up...as some on here have said maybe we should be more in line with the "Private Sector"....why is that hard to understand. the union is mostly former teachers in my district and will always act in line with how the majority of its members vote. these votes usually go in the direction of what is best for all. i get that this may not be whats best for every individual in the union.

  
  Ah, what's best for the good of the people.... Sounds familiar
• LJ

  

  ernest_t_bass;691519 wrote:Please don't generalize. Right there is a condescending remark, about which I was talking. I DO know different, and I DO see both sides.
  
  MANY people on this thread do not "see" both sides, just their own. I see both sides.

  
  How can you see both sides when you don't even understand how the private sector works? And it isn't condescending. It's the truth. Most of these union employees have never experienced anything other than a union during their professional lives
• Gblock

  Con_Alma;691512 wrote:Although a precalc teach may not have those differentiating skill sets they are not ones that would make the potential pool or supply of applicants lower as compared to someone who can and is willing to teach upper level sciences and maths. That the difference in my mind.

  
  i get it and that is why there will always be a shortage of these teachers. those who enjoy those subjects often go into other fields and dont want to work for what a starting teacher makes. one benefit tho is that they can get hired anyhere and anytime in any district...try getting a job with a social studies degree...it wont happen... our district has been laying off for last 5-6 years but is hiring special ed at all times for those who may want to get into teaching.
• ernest_t_bass

  

  LJ;691529 wrote:How can you see both sides when you don't even understand how the private sector works? And it isn't condescending. It's the truth. Most of these union employees have never experienced anything other than a union during their professional lives

  
  How do you KNOW I don't know how the private sector works? I understand it fully.
• LJ

  

  ernest_t_bass;691532 wrote:How do you KNOW I don't know how the private sector works? I understand it fully.

  
  Then why can you not grasp things when I explain them? Such as how the payscale systems work.
• Gblock

  LJ;691529 wrote:How can you see both sides when you don't even understand how the private sector works? And it isn't condescending. It's the truth. Most of these union employees have never experienced anything other than a union during their professional lives

  
  do you think we have never had private sector jobs? or were not raised in households with privat sector jobs? what is it you think we dont understand about private sector? its not rocket science either. i truly want to know. just like their are misconceptions about what goes on in education maybe i am missing something about "private sector"...but i have had 8-10 private sector jobs before moving into education. I worked for key bank...columbia gas....the andersons.....all private sector companies.
• CenterBHSFan

  

  How many teachers in this forum, since graduating college have worked in the private sectore as a professional BEFORE they began teaching?
• mella

  LJ;691524 wrote:Ah, what's best for the good of the people.... Sounds familiar

  The Greater Good theory is not a new one and it is not just a mantra of Socialism. It is the reason we are required to get vaccinations, soldiers protect nations for this idea, the government has laws governing medicines and foods for this idea.
• mella

  CenterBHSFan;691535 wrote:How many teachers in this forum, since graduating college have worked in the private sectore as a professional BEFORE they began teaching?

  Me, I used to work with mentally and physically handicapped adults. I did not get into teaching until I was 30.
• LJ

  

  Gblock;691534 wrote:do you think we have never had private sector jobs? or were not raised in households with privat sector jobs? what is it you think we dont understand about private sector? its not rocket science either. i truly want to know. just like their are misconceptions about what goes on in education maybe i am missing something about "private sector"...but i have had 8-10 private sector jobs before moving into education. I worked for key bank...columbia gas....the andersons.....all private sector companies.

  
  I've worked in both Union Public Service (DoD) and the private sector. Both as a professional. You are possibly the exception.
• LJ

  

  mella;691539 wrote:Me, I used to work with mentally and physically handicapped adults. I did not get into teaching until I was 30.

  
  Isn't that usually Non-Profit?
• LJ

  

  mella;691536 wrote:The Greater Good theory is not a new one and it is not just a mantra of Socialism. It is the reason we are required to get vaccinations, soldiers protect nations for this idea, the government has laws governing medicines and foods for this idea.

  
  that is the greater good of all of society. This is a problem of it being good for some people and bad for the rest.
• mella

  LJ;691544 wrote:Isn't that usually Non-Profit?

  
  Yes, it usually is but not all of them are
• LJ

  

  mella;691551 wrote:Yes, it usually is but not all of them are

  
  because non-profit industry is a whole 3rd "story"
• tsst_fballfan

  

  ernest_t_bass;691515 wrote:I'm already outraged at the high dollars we pay in dues. I'd rather have a local association where we pay minimal dues, instead of paying large amounts so our "Reps" can go lobby with it.
  
  If they get rid of our benefit packages, and no longer allow us to bargain on it, I will fight HARD to not pay union dues.

  I have been in management in the past and have negotiated starting salaries of a dozen or so folks and raises for dozens more. In reading your posts here you seem like the type of person that would do well negotiating for yourself.
• redstreak one

  

  I graduated college in 92 without my teaching degree. I worked for a retailer as an associate first, and then promoted to office manager after 1 year. I was the office manager from 94-97, when I was topped out on there pay scale. My store hit its quota, but I personally missed mine for 1 month, I was terminated the next week! 2 weeks later I took a bartending job, went back to school living on my own and in 2000 received my bachelors in education and teaching 11 years! I also teach Special Education to 7th graders, Science and Social Studies in a contained room. Our school does inclusion, but we have not started it in jr high yet.
  
  Like I said, I have lived in your real world, I watched my mother crying one night after her store manager at Kroger yelled at her in front of everyone for asking for more time off. She took off a week when my father died in 97. It took half my family to keep my brother and me from going into the store and bouncing his head off of the wall!
• LJ

  

  redstreak one;691568 wrote:I graduated college in 92 without my teaching degree. I worked for a retailer as an associate first, and then promoted to office manager after 1 year. I was the office manager from 94-97, when I was topped out on there pay scale. My store hit its quota, but I personally missed mine for 1 month, I was terminated the next week! 2 weeks later I took a bartending job, went back to school living on my own and in 2000 received my bachelors in education and teaching 11 years! I also teach Special Education to 7th graders, Science and Social Studies in a contained room. Our school does inclusion, but we have not started it in jr high yet.
  
  Like I said, I have lived in your real world, I watched my mother crying one night after her store manager at Kroger yelled at her in front of everyone for asking for more time off. She took off a week when my father died in 97. It took half my family to keep my brother and me from going into the store and bouncing his head off of the wall!

  
  
  So you were terminated for performance and are talking about your mom's Union job with Kroger? Interesting
• tsst_fballfan

  

  Go ask your union to sign a contract as well. Say for 10 years or so including cutting their dues by 75% and no due increases unless they get a unanimous vote. Then wait ..... for the rolling laughter as their trying to say NOWAY!