Senate Bill 5 Targets Collective Bargaining for Elimination!

• mella

  Manhattan Buckeye;691429 wrote:Again, this is the problem, we don't value the skills necessary today, the teachers' unions are out of touch.

  I must work in a unique district. We already pay 20% of our family health insurance (individuals pay 10% and shoudl be 20%). Our teachers work very hard to ensure that our students get the best education possible. I am constantly pushing my students to be the best they can be and I try to impart college study skills to my seniors and juniors. Are there "bad" teachers in our district? Yes, and I don't want to be associated with them and would like them removed from the profession.
• bigkahuna

  ernest_t_bass;691444 wrote:I'm getting sick of these damn snow days, you? We called off yesterday b/c of a little ice, and I was PISSED! Most schools around us went. I would have rather gone.
  
  With all these snow days, we should just take our time off in the Winter, instead of Summer. Seeing this shit makes me want to lean towards a year round school system. I'd much rather like 2-3 weeks off b/t quarters.

  
  I think today was our 8th day missed.
• LJ

  

  ernest_t_bass;691426 wrote:Absolutely not, but I would assume that there is some type of base, no?

  
  no such thing as a base. The have determined that there is a range that they are willing to pay for talent that they believe can do a specific job. You can negotiate within that range. If you feel you are worth more than that range, you either take it, or you go on to the next job.
• Writerbuckeye

  

  ernest_t_bass;691448 wrote:It was stated somewhere in another thread that eliminating it, or enforcing that part of the bill, will be minuscule to reducing our debt. I don't have numbers, just stating what I read.

  
  Reducing debt is only one aspect of passing this legislation. This bill is more about giving more control to local entities like school boards over their budgets and personnel management. Those opposed to the bill like to keep bringing up that this bill doesn't save that much money NOW, but that's a bit of a straw man. The savings will come down the road and over time.
  
  It (the bill) is also only one small piece of what I am sure is a lot of steps being taken by the administration to close the budget deficit.
  
  Then again, if it "only" saves a few million dollars -- that's still a savings that is needed right now.
  
  Union folks aren't doing themselves any favors (with the public) using this argument.
• mella

  Gblock;691450 wrote:you are giving an example of schools where sped's are included in to regular classes....many districts/schools dont do this.

  
  
  The only interaction I have had with SPEDs who don't co-teach is with a few individuals who only have about 10 students all day and they are not teaching high level classes. So yes these teachers do need a varied education and do have specialized skills but they don't work any harder than a core subject regular ed teacher.
• Gblock

  mella;691462 wrote:The only interaction I have had with SPEDs who don't co-teach is with a few individuals who only have about 10 students all day and they are not teaching high level classes. So yes these teachers do need a varied education and do have specialized skills but they don't work any harder than a core subject regular ed teacher.

  
  you must work in the burbs....come to the inner city and sit with a SPED teacher for a day and you would change your tune. and im not saying harder im saying it is equal to what a person would do teaching other subjects. its just a different skill set. most of the teachers that teach foreign languages at my schools have been from that country and grew up speaking it...does that make them smarter?
  
  teaching high school in my experience was easier than teaching middle school and elementary which i have also done....
• Con_Alma

  Writerbuckeye;691461 wrote:Reducing debt is only one aspect of passing this legislation. This bill is more about giving more control to local entities like school boards over their budgets and personnel management. ...
  
  Then again, if it "only" saves a few million dollars -- that's still a savings that is needed right now.
  
  Union folks aren't doing themselves any favors (with the public) using this argument.

  Exactly.
• ernest_t_bass

  

  LJ;691460 wrote:no such thing as a base. The have determined that there is a range that they are willing to pay for talent that they believe can do a specific job. You can negotiate within that range. If you feel you are worth more than that range, you either take it, or you go on to the next job.

  
  Is the lowest number in the range not a base for starting?
• mella

  Writerbuckeye;691461 wrote:Reducing debt is only one aspect of passing this legislation. This bill is more about giving more control to local entities like school boards over their budgets and personnel management. Those opposed to the bill like to keep bringing up that this bill doesn't save that much money NOW, but that's a bit of a straw man. The savings will come down the road and over time.
  
  It (the bill) is also only one small piece of what I am sure is a lot of steps being taken by the administration to close the budget deficit.
  
  Then again, if it "only" saves a few million dollars -- that's still a savings that is needed right now.
  
  Union folks aren't doing themselves any favors (with the public) using this argument.

  Again, I must be in a unique district. Only about 5% of our district's budget comes from the state. The rest of the money is from taxes and we have one of the lowest per pupil expenditures in the state, some of the highest test scores in the state, and our tax rate is still lower than most of our comparison schools. Our teachers teach 6 periods a day, not 5 as a lot of teachers do. Yes any savings is needed and most union folk are not doing themselves any favors by acting like they belong to a labor union.
• LJ

  

  ernest_t_bass;691467 wrote:Is the lowest number in the range not a base for starting?

  
  No, the way you think of base is that "everyone will get at least this amount". The way it works in private industry is "we think this employee should be worth at least $xx and at most $xx". In other words, they aren't going to hire someone worth $25k for a $30k job. On the other hand, they aren't going to hire someone worth $100k for a $75k job.
• CenterBHSFan

  

  ConAlma,
  
  I should have rather said "after 1,000 posts, everybody still thinks what they think and at this point it is redundant".
• ernest_t_bass

  

  Semantics.
• mella

  Gblock;691463 wrote:you must work in the burbs....come to the inner city and sit with a SPED teacher for a day and you would change your tune. and im not saying harder im saying it is equal to what a person would do teaching other subjects. its just a different skill set. most of the teachers that teach foreign languages at my schools have been from that country and grew up speaking it...does that make them smarter?
  
  teaching high school in my experience was easier than teaching middle school and elementary which i have also done....

  I am sure that inner city SPEDs need a hardy drink after their day. Yes I work in the burbs and have taught some inner city middle school. It is a totally different world.
• Con_Alma

  CebterBHS
  
  We are certainly getting to that point it seems ...if we aren't there already.
• LJ

  

  ernest_t_bass;691475 wrote:Semantics.

  
  Not really. Is a gym teacher worth the same as a SPED teacher? No, but the district has a base salary that teachers will get. In private industry they will not earn the same, because there is no base. It's hard to explain to someone who has never experienced it (not dogging you, but if you have never experienced it, then all you can go off of is your experience)
• Manhattan Buckeye

  LJ;691485 wrote:Not really. Is a gym teacher worth the same as a SPED teacher? No, but the district has a base salary that teachers will get. In private industry they will not earn the same, because there is no base. It's hard to explain to someone who has never experienced it (not dogging you, but if you have never experienced it, then all you can go off of is your experience)

  
  This + 1,000,000,000,000
  
  What I find utterly confusing is the lack of understanding that practically every other industry (private and public) finds a way to value their workforce - yet this is pretty much the only one that incapable of doing so.
• ernest_t_bass

  

  Got this in an email. Yes, it is OEA based. I'm just providing it to you.
  

  Senate Bill 5 Update
  
  
  
  On Wednesday, February 23, Senate President Tom Niehaus (R-New Richmond) spoke to reporters after Senate session about some of the changes Senate Republicans plan to make to Senate Bill 5. The changes outlined by President Niehaus DO NOT change the OEA’s position of total opposition to Senate Bill 5.
  
  
  
  The Senate Insurance, Commerce & Labor will be taking amendment proposals through noon on Friday in preparation for a possible committee and Senate floor vote next week. Many changes are expected to the bill.
  
  
  
  At this time, the actual language of the changes President Niehaus discussed with reporters is not available. The following are changes expected to Senate Bill 5 based on President Niehaus’ general comments indicate the following changes:
  
  
  
  - Allow state employees and employees of state institutions of higher education to collectively bargain on wages only, not benefits or other matters. Currently, SB 5 provides no collective bargaining rights to these public employees.
  
  - Prohibit strikes for all public employees, including school employees. Currently, SB 5 allows school employees to strike, but authorizes school districts to hire permanent replacement workers.

• Gblock

  LJ;691485 wrote:Not really. Is a gym teacher worth the same as a SPED teacher? No, but the district has a base salary that teachers will get. In private industry they will not earn the same, because there is no base. It's hard to explain to someone who has never experienced it (not dogging you, but if you have never experienced it, then all you can go off of is your experience)

  
  again its all relative...a special ed teacher probably teaches 14-16 students in some situations unless all the sped team splits up the subjects and trades students throughout the day and then you may see 40....gym teachers probably see 200 students a day and its not just roll the ball out an play basketball anymore. gym teachers also have a lot of set up and prep work to do. now is it rocket science? certainly not. but the public thinks its important and wants it in the school and i think they deserve as much as any teacher. on a side note we have very few gym teachers now and often they are split between up to 3-4 schools. it is also one of the first programs cut.
• tsst_fballfan

  

  Actually in the private sector need comes into play for pay also. So in a private scenario if nobody wanted to be a SPED teacher they would pay that position more to attract someone to the position.
• LJ

  

  Gblock;691493 wrote:again its all relative...a special ed teacher probably teaches 14-16 students in some situations unless all the sped team splits up the subjects and trades students throughout the day and then you may see 40....gym teachers probably see 200 students a day and its not just roll the ball out an play basketball anymore. gym teachers also have a lot of set up and prep work to do. now is it rocket science? certainly not. but the public thinks its important and wants it in the school and i think they deserve as much as any teacher. on a side note we have very few gym teachers now and often they are split between up to 3-4 schools. it is also one of the first programs cut.

  
  Personally I think that thought is assinine. That gym teacher is not worth as much as the SPED teacher. No way in hell. Private industry would not pay them as much.
• LJ

  

  tsst_fballfan;691495 wrote:Actually in the private sector need comes into play for pay also. So in a private scenario if nobody wanted to be a SPED teacher they would pay that position more to attract someone to the position.

  
  Yep. To a point. There would definitely be a differential
• Gblock

  LJ;691496 wrote:Personally I think that thought is assinine. That gym teacher is not worth as much as the SPED teacher. No way in hell. Private industry would not pay them as much.

  
  they also teach health...there is no teacher in our district that just teaches gym...they were laid off 4 years ago....do you think health/sex/ed classes arent important? these guys at my currents school have 36 kids in a class. its not an easy job you can believe it or not
• Con_Alma

  It's not that it isn't "important". It is. It Simply does not in my mind require the degree of skill-set to teach Ap Physics or Ap Calc. There's bound to be a greater supply of people with the skill-set to teach health/gym than a higher level math/science thus making their marketable value and thus pay lower in an open market.
• Gblock

  Con_Alma;691502 wrote:It's not that it isn't "important". It is. It Simply does not in my mind require the skill-set to teach Ap Physics or Ap Calc. There's bound to be a greater supply of people with the skill-set to teach health/gym than a higher level math/science thus making their marketable value and thus pay lower in an open market.

  
  i get what your saying about the content of the subject area however to control a classroom of 36 and to manage over 200 students a day requires a skill set that some who may teach a hs calc class may not have...let alone the ability to show athletic ability and demonstrate and teach many different sports. but your point is not lost on me.
• tsst_fballfan

  

  Con_Alma;691326 wrote:... Democrats and unions see the measure as an attack on workers' rights and an attempt to cripple union support for Democrats. Union leaders say they would make pension and health care concessions if they can keep their bargaining rights, but Walker has refused to compromise. ...

  The bold should be kind of telltale where the union actually stands. They are willing to concede teachers benefits as long as they can keep bargaining rights. Let me rephrase that. They are willing to give away teachers benefits as long as they can keep getting dues and maintain control! :shrugs: Do educated teachers not see this?! Really?! Is this who you really want standing up for you instead of yourselves?! Someone that is willing to give away your benefits as long as they still get your dues and control over you and the district?!