Two Muslims know real reason behind mosque proposal near Ground Zero

• Footwedge

  jmog;492281 wrote:You did not prove anything, you showed a poll that said that Christians (in general) favored the Iraq war at a higher % than non-Christian Americans. That only proved that Christians are more conservative and tended to agree with Bush, right or wrong.
  
  That did not prove a thing about militaristic views.
  
  Your above retort also had NOTHING to do with my post that you quoted. You are deflecting, and still completely ignoring the 2 posts below it.

  
  LOLOL. Too funny. The Iraq War doesn't count? Why is it that other Christian denominations had a lower rate of support for the Iraq invasion? And if you think the Iraq War was just an anomlie on how fundies view war, then you are sadly mistaken. Why was it only the fundies? And for God sake....why do fundies have a higher tolerance for torturing people than the rest of the population? Maybe it's time for the majority of fundamentalists to reread their own Holy Book and practice what Jesus preached.
• jmog

  Footwedge;492260 wrote:No....I don't hate any Protestant Christians.

  
  Now, I'll reply to the only part of your post that had to do with mine. Then why bring up Baptists? Baptists are a protestant denomination.
  
  You have time and time again tried to assert as truth that fundamental Christian denominations are mostly radicals of some sort (which is not true), and most Baptist churches are by the definition I provided above, fundamentals.
  
  One more time, fundamental Christianity is not as you describe it, it is someone who believes in basically these things...
  
  The inerrancy of the Bible
  The literal nature of the Biblical accounts, especially regarding Christ's miracles, and the Creation account in Genesis.
  The Virgin Birth of Christ
  The bodily resurrection of Christ
  The substitutionary atonement of Christ on the cross
  
  That's it, nothing about militarism, radical extremism, terrorism, etc. Like any group are there extremists/idiots? Yes, but to say that fundamental Christians are a majority of radicals, is about as retarded as saying a majority of Muslims are terrorists.
• jmog

  Footwedge;492286 wrote:Provide a quote where I said Jesus promoted violence. Good luck with that, pal. Secondly...the Imam has denounced Islamic terrorism multiple times. Get your facts straight. As for citing America's foreign policy for causing terrrisom attacks in this country...that is a view shared by tens of millions of Americans, including the brilliant Ron Paul...and confirmed by our own CIA.

  
  I understand you have had a hard time reading, but look up 2 or 3 posts, I quoted where you said Jesus/NT promoted violence.
• Footwedge

  jmog;492208 wrote:So, since we are just assuming we know what everyone else personally believes...I'm going to assume you just plain hate all protestant Christians?

  Are all Protestants fundamentalists? Good Gawd, Jmog. And you call yourself a Biblical expert? For example, you won't find a majority of Methodists that share neoconservative ideologies, now will you? And for the record....I don't hate anyone....no one...and certainly not groups of people. That's the way that the Bible has taught me to live my life.
• jmog

  Footwedge;492300 wrote:LOLOL. Too funny. The Iraq War doesn't count? Why is it that other Christian denominations had a lower rate of support for the Iraq invasion? And if you think the Iraq War was just an anomlie on how fundies view war, then you are sadly mistaken. Why was it only the fundies? And for God sake....why do fundies have a higher tolerance for torturing people than the rest of the population? Maybe it's time for the majority of fundamentalists to reread their own Holy Book and practice what Jesus preached.

  
  lol, can you see what you are typing?
  
  You are as bad/hard bent against conservative Christianity as the idiots who say all Muslims are terrorists are against Islam.
• Footwedge

  jmog;492304 wrote:I understand you have had a hard time reading, but look up 2 or 3 posts, I quoted where you said Jesus/NT promoted violence.

  I read what you pasted.....where do I state that Jesus promotes violence? Where? Where? Where? Where? Jesus does not promote violence. What I said is exactly what I said. The Bible has several quotes that can be taken out of context. What's the matter with you?
• jmog

  Footwedge;492305 wrote:Are all Protestants fundamentalists? Good Gawd, Jmog. And you call yourself a Biblical expert? For examply, you won't find a majority of methodists that share neoconservative ideologies, now will you? And for the record....I don't hate anyone....no one...and certainly not groups of people. That's the way that the Bible has taught me to live my life.

  
  But you have assumed numerous times you know exactly what I believe...so why are you so upset when I made a joke post saying "well, you must hate all protestants then"?
• Footwedge

  jmog;492307 wrote:lol, can you see what you are typing?
  
  You are as bad/hard bent against conservative Christianity as the idiots who say all Muslims are terrorists are against Islam.

  I said that the majority....that's over 50%....since apparently math is not your strong suit.....hate Muslims en masse. And they do. Look it up.
• Footwedge

  jmog;492310 wrote:But you have assumed numerous times you know exactly what I believe...so why are you so upset when I made a joke post saying "well, you must hate all protestants then"?

  Yeah...your posts are dripping with sarcasm, now aren't they? What a joke.
• jmog

  Footwedge;492309 wrote:I read what you pasted.....where do I state that Jesus promotes violence? Where? Where? Where? Where? Jesus does not prmote violence. What I said is exactly what I said. The Bible has several quotes that can be taken out of context. What's the matter with you?

  
  Wow, do I have to spell it out that bad?
  
  You quoted 2 verses where Jesus was talking and then say, and I QUOTE
  
  "That's just 2 of the many quotes from the new testament...I can find many others...that promote utter violence against the "non believers"."
  
  I'm sorry, but that is saying, I have found 2 quotes from Jesus, and can find many others from the new testament, that PROMOTE UTTER VIOLENCE AGAINST NON BELIEVERS.
  
  I'm sorry, but no one with at least a 2nd grade reading level can read your post, that says "the new testament, that promote utter violence against non believers" and then come out and say "I never said that Jesus/the Bible promotes violence, I said it could be taken out of context".
  
  Please try to explain that away, you are just digging a hole.
• jmog

  jmog;492208 wrote:So, since we are just assuming we know what everyone else personally believes...I'm going to assume you just plain hate all protestant Christians?

  
  I guess you didn't read the bolded part?
• jmog

  Footwedge;492312 wrote:I said that the majority....that's over 50%....since apparently math is not your strong suit.....hate Muslims en masse. And they do. Look it up.

  
  No, you are equating supporting a war with hating Muslims, that is a stretch even for you.
• I Wear Pants

  jmog;492205 wrote:
  Also, you have 1 thing incorrect. This Imam has said that America is an accessory to 9/11, he did not denounce it.

  Saying that things we did or said could/did lead to a series of events culminating in 9/11 does not = not denouncing 9/11. He's denounced it. He just believes that there were certain things we did or policies we had that helped lead to it. It isn't like they just started hating America out of the blue.
  
  This is the part where someone accuses me of supporting/sympathizing with terrorists. Realizing that there are reasons (usually quite poor) for people to do such things beyond "they hate freedom" doesn't mean I or anyone supports it.
• jmog

  I Wear Pants;492343 wrote:Saying that things we did or said could/did lead to a series of events culminating in 9/11 does not = not denouncing 9/11. He's denounced it. He just believes that there were certain things we did or policies we had that helped lead to it. It isn't like they just started hating America out of the blue.
  
  This is the part where someone accuses me of supporting/sympathizing with terrorists. Realizing that there are reasons (usually quite poor) for people to do such things beyond "they hate freedom" doesn't mean I or anyone supports it.

  
  I understand what he said, but he actually said we were an accessory, as in we "helped". He wasn't just saying that things we did pissed off Muslims.
• I Wear Pants

  He said we were an accessory in the sense that I laid out. Not in the "we actively did something to help them".
• Footwedge

  jmog;492317 wrote:No, you are equating supporting a war with hating Muslims, that is a stretch even for you.

  
  Sigh....Make up your mind. They do both. Do you want me to provide even more links to prove you wrong yet again? And for the record....most people that continued their outrageous support of the Iraq debacle....after 2004...after all the rubbish came out....did so because they hate Mooslims. FACT!
• Glory Days

  

  i heard if this thread reaches 1,000 posts, the internets will explode!
• Footwedge

  I Wear Pants;492417 wrote:He said we were an accessory in the sense that I laid out. Not in the "we actively did something to help them".

  Give it up Pants...no matter how many posts you list....no matter how many links you post....it will make no difference to people like jmog. The Imam, like Boat Shoes referenced, will always be viewed as a Mooslim with nefarious intents....inspite of all his public declarations denouncing terrorism.
  
  Some people want to escalate the religious wars...it's what a lot of them live for.
• Footwedge

  jmog;492315 wrote:Wow, do I have to spell it out that bad?
  
  You quoted 2 verses where Jesus was talking and then say, and I QUOTE
  
  "That's just 2 of the many quotes from the new testament...I can find many others...that promote utter violence against the "non believers"."
  
  I'm sorry, but that is saying, I have found 2 quotes from Jesus, and can find many others from the new testament, that PROMOTE UTTER VIOLENCE AGAINST NON BELIEVERS.
  
  I'm sorry, but no one with at least a 2nd grade reading level can read your post, that says "the new testament, that promote utter violence against non believers" and then come out and say "I never said that Jesus/the Bible promotes violence, I said it could be taken out of context".
  
  Please try to explain that away, you are just digging a hole.

  So when are you going to show me where I said Jesus promotes violence? I got all week.
  
  Crickets......
• majorspark

  

  I Wear Pants;492417 wrote:He said we were an accessory in the sense that I laid out. Not in the "we actively did something to help them".

  
  Using the word accessory is a bad choice of words. Most Americans when they hear the word accessory, as this Imam chose to use that term in answering the question, as an accessory to a crime. Americans hear the word used often in the criminal justice system to describe ones criminal actions in aiding in the direct act of the commission of the crime. Like it or not the connotation of this word in this context is that of criminal activity.
  
  The same could be said about the attack on Pearl Harbor by the Japanese. Our foreign policy decisions pissed the Japanese off. Cutting off credit, interfering with their supply of oil, supporting states who they considered their enemies, projecting our naval power in their part of the world, etc.
  
  Imagine some American of Japanese decent being questioned by a reporter about the attack and responding as this Imam did. The the USA was an accessory to the attack on Pearl Harbor. Of course back then FDR didn't wait for them to open their mouths. He just shipped them of to prison camps.
  
  Either this Imam is ignorant of the word accessory's connotation in American english or he purposefully chose it because he holds some strong feelings about the motives of the attackers. I am not sure which one it is. But one thing is for sure his choice of words is not going to build an bridges.
• I Wear Pants

  I don't think it was really a poor choice of words because I understood what he meant. But I can see how it would be taken a different way and when taken that way would sound like a horrible thing to say.
  
  Footwedge, I don't think jmog is out to get Islam or anything. Just has different opinions than I do.
• isadore

  I Wear Pants;492343 wrote:Saying that things we did or said could/did lead to a series of events culminating in 9/11 does not = not denouncing 9/11. He's denounced it. He just believes that there were certain things we did or policies we had that helped lead to it. It isn't like they just started hating America out of the blue.
  
  This is the part where someone accuses me of supporting/sympathizing with terrorists. Realizing that there are reasons (usually quite poor) for people to do such things beyond "they hate freedom" doesn't mean I or anyone supports it.

  I wear pants wrote: And we are the closest thing left to imperialists.

  I wear pants wrote: So we have the right to just run roughshod over anyone and they are automatically the bad guys for using gorilla/brutal tactics that are their only real way to fight.

  I wear pants wrote: We are too large an enemy for almost any single country to fight.

  I wear pants wrote: Is everyone just supposed to bow to our will then?

  Evil, evil America, no wonder everyone wants to kill our service people, attack us “little eichmans” as Ward Churchill described us. So we get Ward, Norm Chomsky, IWP view of America and its enemies.
• jhay78

  

  Footwedge;492452 wrote:So when are you going to show me where I said Jesus promotes violence? I got all week.
  
  Crickets......

  
  Here's my post defending the NT against your claim that it has the "same verbiage on killing the religious enemy":
  

  jhay78;459100 wrote:There are certainly examples of religious wars recorded in the Old Testament carried out by the Israelites under Joshua (and later Samuel/Saul), but you can read the New Testament 1000 times forwards, backwards, in Greek, English, or whatever, and you won't find a single example of Jesus or one of his apostles instructing their followers to kill religious enemies or conduct religious wars on unbelievers. You will find mutiple verses stating just the opposite.

  Then in an effort to prove me wrong, you quoted two verses to attempt to prove that Jesus promotes violence:
  

  Footwedge;459177 wrote:6) In Mark 7:9, Jesus is critical of the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as prescribed by Old Testament law.
  
  7) In Luke 19:22-27, Jesus orders killed anyone who refuses to be ruled by him.
  
  http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/1086.htm
  
  That's just 2 of the many quotes from the new testament...I can find many others...that promote utter violence against the "non believers".
  
  

  While you didn't utter the words "Jesus promotes violence", you certainly implied it, and most definitely stated that 2 verses and many others in the NT do in fact promote violence.
  
  You cannot be more wrong in your denials that you never said such a thing. Post 266 has been quoted multiple times on this thread and you keep digging a hole and denying it. It's really difficult to lend you any credibility as a result.

• isadore

  I Wear Pants;492343 wrote:Saying that things we did or said could/did lead to a series of events culminating in 9/11 does not = not denouncing 9/11. He's denounced it. He just believes that there were certain things we did or policies we had that helped lead to it. It isn't like they just started hating America out of the blue.
  
  This is the part where someone accuses me of supporting/sympathizing with terrorists. Realizing that there are reasons (usually quite poor) for people to do such things beyond "they hate freedom" doesn't mean I or anyone supports it.

  “Is there not some chosen curse, Some hidden thunder in the stores of heaven, Red with uncommon wrath, to blast the man Who owes his greatness to his country's ruin? “ Joseph Addison

  I wear pants wrote:And we are the closest thing left to imperialists.

  “The most important thing in our war preparations is to teach all our people to hate U.S. imperialism. “
  Kim il Sung
  

  I wear pants wrote:So we have the right to just run roughshod over anyone and they are automatically the bad guys for using gorilla/brutal tactics that are their only real way to fight.

  “In today's wars, there are no morals. We believe the worst thieves in the world today and the worst terrorists are the Americans. We do not have to differentiate between military or civilian. As far as we are concerned, they are all targets” Osama Bin Laden
  

  I wear pants wrote:Is everyone just supposed to bow to our will then?

  “Americans will not allow any Islamic regime to reach the position of governance except if it is an accomplice to the Americans, just like what is happening right now in Iraq.”
  Ayn al Zawahiri
• I Wear Pants

  And out from under the bridge isadore emerges.