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Two Muslims know real reason behind mosque proposal near Ground Zero

  • I Wear Pants
    fish82;479780 wrote:And if he had a farking brain in his head, he would have seen himself getting painted into a corner when this idea first popped into his head. Not the smartest of Imams.
    Because we have any room to talk about the intellect of others. We spend time bickering about other places and people on the internet. Who's the ones without brains again? Probably us.
  • dwccrew
    I Wear Pants;480832 wrote:Because we have any room to talk about the intellect of others. We spend time bickering about other places and people on the internet. Who's the ones without brains again? Probably us.

    No probably about it, it is us!
  • isadore
    Why does Islamophobia rise
    Examples of some American Muslims
    Al Queada spokesman Adam Yahiye Gadahan
    Sergeant Asan Akbar killed one American soldier and injured 15 others when he threw three grenades into their tents.
    2008 David Headley , scout for the Mumbai massacre of 164 people including 6 Americans
    June 1, 2009 Little Rock, Arkansas Abdul Hakim Mujahid Muhammad kills one soldier, seriously wounds another at army recruiting post.
    November 5, 2009 Major Nidal Malik Hasan slaughters 13 of his fellow Americans, one of whom was pregnant and wounds 30
    May 4, 2010 Faisal Shahzad tries to kill hundreds of Americans by setting off a bomb in Time Square.
    And inside United States Mosques
    Omar Abdel-Rahman’s, the Blind Sheik, New York area Mosques used as centers for the first bombing of the Trade Center in Februray ,1993.
    Anwar al-Awklaki in Denver, San Diego and Washington D.C. mosques recruiting for Al Queada. Preaching to 9/11 bombers, working with associates of the Blind Sheikh and instigated Hasan’s massacre at Fort Hood.

    And of course Iman Rauf who sees us as an accomplice in the 9/11 attack
  • ptown_trojans_1
    isadore;481230 wrote: And of course Iman Rauf who sees us as an accomplice in the 9/11 attack
    ? I remember the quote and it was in reference to the U.S. helped create al Qaeda by funding the fighters in Afghanistan and then leaving. Which is true. Blowback at its finest.
  • isadore
    I am sure all those little murderers and traitors listed above provide excuses like
    " Are — are — are you in any way suggesting that we in the United States deserved what happened?


    MR. ABDUL RAUF: I wouldn’t say that the United States deserved what happened, but the United States policies were an accessory to the crime that happened.


    MR. BRADLEY: O.K. You say that we’re an accessory?


    MR. ABDUL RAUF: Yes.


    MR. BRADLEY: How?


    MR. ABDUL RAUF: Because we have been an accessory to a lot of — of innocent lives dying in the world. In fact, it — in the most direct sense, Osama bin Laden is made in the U.S.A. ...
  • ptown_trojans_1
    isadore;481504 wrote:I am sure all those little murderers and traitors listed above provide excuses like
    " Are — are — are you in any way suggesting that we in the United States deserved what happened?


    MR. ABDUL RAUF: I wouldn’t say that the United States deserved what happened, but the United States policies were an accessory to the crime that happened.


    MR. BRADLEY: O.K. You say that we’re an accessory?


    MR. ABDUL RAUF: Yes.


    MR. BRADLEY: How?


    MR. ABDUL RAUF: Because we have been an accessory to a lot of — of innocent lives dying in the world. In fact, it — in the most direct sense, Osama bin Laden is made in the U.S.A. ...

    And this is false how? Al Qaeda does use the death of innocents as a main reason for recruitment. While, yes our methods of war are much better, before COIN, our methods created many innocent casualties in bombing, from the Gulf War, to Kosovo to the 2nd Gulf War. Also, the U.S. pulled out of Afghanistan and left the region to the radicals.

    Shit happens in wars, but the blowback is killing the U.S. and the killing of innocents in war as well as a whole host of other factors played into 9/11. Ignoring it, or passing it as it did not matter, ignores one of the many reason for 9/11.

    The shift to COIN is trying to change that factor and eliminate the innocents, taking away a huge recruitment tool for al Qaeda.
  • dwccrew
    Ptown, stop before you enter the blackhole. :)
  • I Wear Pants
    Yeah wait before he starts with the whole "see here, I have a quote that says ptown thinks we deserved 9/11" .
  • isadore
    ptown-Trojans-1 wrote:And this is false how? Al Qaeda does use the death of innocents as a main reason for recruitment. While, yes our methods of war are much better, before COIN, our methods created many innocent casualties in bombing, from the Gulf War, to Kosovo to the 2nd Gulf War. Also, the U.S. pulled out of Afghanistan and left the region to the radicals.

    Shit happens in wars, but the blowback is killing the U.S. and the killing of innocents in war as well as a whole host of other factors played into 9/11. Ignoring it, or passing it as it did not matter, ignores one of the many reason for 9/11.

    The shift to COIN is trying to change that factor and eliminate the innocents, taking away a huge recruitment tool for al Qaeda.
    we won the first gulf war with very few casualties
    Kosovo campaign was a success with little cost in American life as we fought to protect Muslims from Christians,
    the 2nd Iraq war had a very specific set of circumstances dealing with a shiite majority, and large kurdish population, both groups threatened by al queda
    the pashtuns are the majority in afghanistan
    the coin strategy is costing American and allied lives in Afghanistan with all the restrictions on the use of firepower
  • BRF
    22 pages now. Anybody changed their minds yet? Ha Ha! Keep on posting, get it off your chests. First Amendment, baby. I will say AGAIN....don't build it.
  • jhay78
    ptown_trojans_1;481508 wrote:And this is false how? Al Qaeda does use the death of innocents as a main reason for recruitment. While, yes our methods of war are much better, before COIN, our methods created many innocent casualties in bombing, from the Gulf War, to Kosovo to the 2nd Gulf War. Also, the U.S. pulled out of Afghanistan and left the region to the radicals.

    Shit happens in wars, but the blowback is killing the U.S. and the killing of innocents in war as well as a whole host of other factors played into 9/11. Ignoring it, or passing it as it did not matter, ignores one of the many reason for 9/11.

    The shift to COIN is trying to change that factor and eliminate the innocents, taking away a huge recruitment tool for al Qaeda.

    So what did we do to cause the "Death to America" slogan in Iran in 1979? I suppose that was our fault too. I'm not ignoring the consequences of recent wars, but I'm sick of the built-in excuses for radical Islam. Imam Rauf himself is going from "America was an accessory to 9/11" to "If we don't built this community center, the radicals will increase." How about the ideology of radical Islam sucks- and instead of lecturing the most tolerant, religiously open country the planet has ever seen, go build bridges in places where religious freedom and tolerance are trampled upon every single day by . . . wait for it . . . radical Islamists.
  • Footwedge
    jhay78;479689 wrote:They can do whatever they want- just spare us the "building bridges" and "promoting interfaith healing" crap. I would almost understand more if they just came out and said, "We want to build a mosque, and a community center, and we want to spend $100 Mill doing it, and we could care less about how people feel about it." In effect, that's what they're saying anyway, but when they disguise it with "bridge-building", it makes me think they have other intentions.

    Which reminds me- the Imam is now back to calling it Cordoba House- wonder why it switched back?
    Some people believe in the "religious harmony" thingy. It's too bad that you and your ilk do not. Keep promoting the religious wars....but be careful come judgement day.
  • Footwedge
    jhay78;475594 wrote:Nowhere in that article do those religious leaders ever use the word Islamophobia- they condemn bigotry, derision, and violence, among other things. Islamophobia of course was used in the title of the article by its authors, and it makes a convenient term for you to make your point.
    What exactly is your definition of Islamaphobia? Every religious leader or group cited in this piece are sick and tired of Islamaphobia
    Someone needs to define Islamophobia, and quit tossing it around on everyone who opposes the GZ mosque, or everyone who questions the teachings of Islam. To someone else, "Islamophobia" could be used for people who don't want sharia law jammed down their throats.
    Look it up in the damn dictionary.
  • Footwedge
    jhay78;481710 wrote:So what did we do to cause the "Death to America" slogan in Iran in 1979? I suppose that was our fault too. I'm not ignoring the consequences of recent wars, but I'm sick of the built-in excuses for radical Islam. Imam Rauf himself is going from "America was an accessory to 9/11" to "If we don't built this community center, the radicals will increase." How about the ideology of radical Islam sucks- and instead of lecturing the most tolerant, religiously open country the planet has ever seen, go build bridges in places where religious freedom and tolerance are trampled upon every single day by . . . wait for it . . . radical Islamists.
    And maybe radical Islam is sick and tired of some of our foreign policies that have killed millions of innocent victims. When are you going to tell us how sick and tired you are of the Isreali terrorists...like Menachin Begin, who did the exact same thing as Hamas. Goodle Ergun Group and the Lehi group.


    1953: U.S. overthrows Prime Minister Mohammed Mosaddeq of Iran. U.S. installs Shah as dictator.
    1954: U.S. overthrows democratically-elected President Arbenz of Guatemala. 200,000 civilians killed.
    1963: U.S. backs assassination of South Vietnamese President Diem.
    1963-1975: American military kills 4 million people in Southeast Asia.
    September 11, 1973: U.S. stages coup in Chile. Democratically-elected President Salvador Allende assassinated. Dictator Augusto Pinochet installed. 5,000 Chileans murdered.
    1977: U.S. backs military rulers of El Salvador. 70,000 Salvadorans and four American nuns killed.
    1980s: U.S. trains Osama bin Laden and fellow terrorists to kill Soviets. CIA gives them $3 billion.
    1981: Reagan administration trains and funds the Contras. 30,000 Nicaraguans die.
    1982: U.S. provides billions of dollars in aid to Saddam Hussein for weapons to kill Iranians.
    1983: The White House secretly gives Iran weapons to kill Iraqis.
    1989: CIA agent Manuel Noriega (also serving as President of Panama) disobeys orders from Washington. U.S. invades Panama and removes Noriega. 3,000 Panamanian civilian casualties.
    1990: Iraq invades Kuwait with weapons from U.S.
    1991: U.S. enters Iraq. Bush reinstates dictator of Kuwait.
    1998: Clinton bombs possible weapons factory in Sudan. Factory turns out to be making aspirin.
    1991 to present: American planes bomb Iraq on a weekly basis. U.N. estimates 500,000 Iraqi children die from bombing and sanctions.
    2000-2001: U.S. gives Taliban-ruled Afghanistan $245 million in aid.
    Sept. 11, 2001: Osama bin Laden uses his expert CIA training to murder 3,000 people.a little history lesson....and shows motivation for killing our citizens.....It's called "blowback"....
  • Footwedge
    jmog;474493 wrote:Can you please explain what I have distorted since I have directly quoted all of the posts in question? I have not changed any of the text, you are the one that keeps changing your story after the fact.
    Because this is the internet, you can continue your cherade of twisting and manipulating posts of people that view the world differently than you do. I cited a quote in the Bible...which Jesus talks about "bringing them here, and have then killed". It matters not that the context was out of context....at least it doesn't to those that promote that the Qur'an is a book of violence.
  • jhay78
    Footwedge;481711 wrote:Some people believe in the "religious harmony" thingy. It's too bad that you and your ilk do not. Keep promting the religious wars....but be careful come judgement day.

    Sure they do- as long as Islam is in charge. Even Imam Rauf references Cordoba, Spain, where Christians, Jews, and Muslims "lived in peace and harmony"- he forgot to mention the militancy (some call it "religious wars") that spread Islam in the first place.

    Didn't know questioning Islam and the intentions of a $100 Mill facility next to Ground Zero is tantamount to "promoting religious wars". I guess I learn something new every day here . . . And btw I'm anxiously awaiting judgment day, when God will right the wrongs of history.
  • Footwedge
    I Wear Pants;481519 wrote:Yeah wait before he starts with the whole "see here, I have a quote that says ptown thinks we deserved 9/11" .
    Our 3000 citizens did not deserve to die...and neither did the hundreds of thousands of innocent Muslims needed to die either. People that spew the crap that radical Islamists "hate us for our freedoms" are the biggest knuckleheads ever to roam the planet.


    1953: U.S. overthrows Prime Minister Mohammed Mosaddeq of Iran. U.S. installs Shah as dictator.
    1954: U.S. overthrows democratically-elected President Arbenz of Guatemala. 200,000 civilians killed.
    1963: U.S. backs assassination of South Vietnamese President Diem.
    1963-1975: American military kills 4 million people in Southeast Asia.
    September 11, 1973: U.S. stages coup in Chile. Democratically-elected President Salvador Allende assassinated. Dictator Augusto Pinochet installed. 5,000 Chileans murdered.
    1977: U.S. backs military rulers of El Salvador. 70,000 Salvadorans and four American nuns killed.
    1980s: U.S. trains Osama bin Laden and fellow terrorists to kill Soviets. CIA gives them $3 billion.
    1981: Reagan administration trains and funds the Contras. 30,000 Nicaraguans die.
    1982: U.S. provides billions of dollars in aid to Saddam Hussein for weapons to kill Iranians.
    1983: The White House secretly gives Iran weapons to kill Iraqis.
    1989: CIA agent Manuel Noriega (also serving as President of Panama) disobeys orders from Washington. U.S. invades Panama and removes Noriega. 3,000 Panamanian civilian casualties.
    1990: Iraq invades Kuwait with weapons from U.S.
    1991: U.S. enters Iraq. Bush reinstates dictator of Kuwait.
    1998: Clinton bombs possible weapons factory in Sudan. Factory turns out to be making aspirin.
    1991 to present: American planes bomb Iraq on a weekly basis. U.N. estimates 500,000 Iraqi children die from bombing and sanctions.
    2000-2001: U.S. gives Taliban-ruled Afghanistan $245 million in aid.
    Sept. 11, 2001: Osama bin Laden uses his expert CIA training to murder 3,000 people.
  • Footwedge
    jhay78;481745 wrote:Sure they do- as long as Islam is in charge. Even Imam Rauf references Cordoba, Spain, where Christians, Jews, and Muslims "lived in peace and harmony"- he forgot to mention the militancy (some call it "religious wars") that spread Islam in the first place.

    Didn't know questioning Islam and the intentions of a $100 Mill facility next to Ground Zero is tantamount to "promoting religious wars". I guess I learn something new every day here . . . And btw I'm anxiously awaiting judgment day, when God will right the wrongs of history.
    The Bible that I read talks about "turning the other cheek". Take heed bro.
  • Footwedge
    believer;472983 wrote:True but you have to admit that hijacking airliners full of innocent people and flying those aircraft at several hundred miles per hour into skyscrapers full of innocent people is a uniquely radical Islam domain. After all, wouldn't you die willingly too if you believe Allah has promised you virgins in paradise for killing the infidel?
    That is not what is practiced by Muslims. Quit acting like this is a fundamental tenet that is placed into practice.
  • Footwedge
    jmog;474495 wrote:Not end of discussion, I already explained to you Luke 19, that was not Jesus saying "kill those who won't be under me", it was Jesus telling a long story/parable about a ruthless ruler who at the end said "bring them here and kill them".

    If I was telling a story about Footwedge killing a bunch of people and quoting him at one point saying "bring them here and let me kill them", that does NOT mean that me (jmog) is saying to please have them killed.

    Anyone with a 3rd grade reading comprehension level understands this.

    Are you sure you aren't missing a chromosome?
    Yeah...I only have 25 chromosomes, Mr.Christian....who claims that the Qur'an is a book of hate....with contextual links to violence...but when is shown a similar verse in the Bible...it's just a "misunderstanding" of a little story.
  • Footwedge
    jmog;474496 wrote:The problem is Footy, you originally said that Jesus PROMOTED violence with this quote, you did NOT say that this quote, while not promoting violence, could easily be taken out of context.

    Your statement was 100% false, and you aren't willing to admit it.
    You are lying once again. LIE. Whenever I cited the story of Jesus going apeshit in the temple...ripping into the moneychangers...I asked the rhetorical question.."Was Jesus promoting violence"? I never stated that esus was promoting violence. Don't put words in my mouth...I don't care if this is the internet...there's no call for it.
  • Footwedge
    jmog;475683 wrote:[/b],"

    Last I checked protestant, catholic, and orthodox are Christian churches, and protestants are typically where you find the "fundamentals".
    WRONG!!!! Fundamentalist Christians are not Catholic, Protestant nor Orthodaox. Far from it. Fundamentalist Christians believe in the absolutes only of Christianity. This is not practiced by the 3 Christian denominations that you have cited. Google it and learn something.

    And...fundamentalist Christians believe that America should be a theocracy, believe that the rapture is soon to come, and are extremely militaristic in their views. They don't come close to espousing the teachings of Christ...and are the primary reason that more and more Americans are becoming more and more negative towards the Christian faith.
  • Manhattan Buckeye
    I'm sitting here wondering what is worse, Jason Witten's lack of production for my fantasy football team, or all of these awful Christianists taking away my rights. I guess I'll have to see. Witten could still be productive tonight, or perhaps I'll wake up tomorrow in some sort of theocratic fantasy land.
  • jhay78
    Footwedge;481806 wrote:WRONG!!!! Fundamentalist Christians are not Catholic, Protestant nor Orthodaox. Far from it. Fundamentalist Christians believe in the absolutes only of Christianity. This is not practiced by the 3 Christian denominations that you have cited. Google it and learn something.

    Jesus was a fundamentalist: "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through me." (John 14:6)

    So was his disciple, Peter: "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

    Islam holds Jesus in high esteem as a prophet. One problem though- most prophets don't go around calling themselves the Son of God and predicting they would rise from the dead 3 days after being crucified on a Roman cross. So either Jesus was a lying prophet, a deranged madman (and thus in both cases Islam should ignore him altogether), or he is who he claimed to be- and thus Jesus is an exclusive fundamentalist and Islam is way off. In all three cases, Islam's view of Jesus is unsatisfactory.
    And...fundamentalist Christians believe that America should be a theocracy, believe that the rapture is soon to come, and are extremely militaristic in their views. They don't come close to espousing the teachings of Christ...and are the primary reason that more and more Americans are becoming more and more negative towards the Christian faith
    I would categorize the Founding Fathers, and the several generations that shaped early colonial society before them, as Bible-believing fundamentalists (not all of them, but at least a majority of them). And guess what- they not only rejected theocracy and state-endorsed religion, they created the most enduring religiously tolerant government document (and nation) of all time. You are mistakenly assuming all fundamentalist are wackos (and yes they do exist); and most would include fundamentalists under the Protestant label.
  • tk421
    Manhattan Buckeye;481885 wrote:I'm sitting here wondering what is worse, Jason Witten's lack of production for my fantasy football team, or all of these awful Christianists taking away my rights. I guess I'll have to see. Witten could still be productive tonight, or perhaps I'll wake up tomorrow in some sort of theocratic fantasy land.

    Fantasy football always. Who needs rights?