posted by ptown_trojans_1

That was theirs to begin with? Probably not...

As the U.S. is only one party to this deal, us not being a party should not totally screw it, if the deal has any merit whatsoever. Also, Iran is still held by the IAEA safeguards standards. Most of what Trump said about the technical details of the deal were straight false. Every single intel agency has said, and so has the IAEA, that Iran is in compliance of the deal and cheating is harder than hell to do. Isotopes do not go away, so the IAEA wil lcatch any cheating. Trump just didn't like the deal to begin with. 

Iran is a bad actor in the region, sure, and yes this deal did not address. It was not supposed it. That was beyond the scope of the agreement. It was just a narrow deal on the nuclear program. 

Now, if Trump wants to tackle Iran as a bad actor, great...but he failed to address how he would  do that. There is no other option. He just said we are leaving the deal and we will figure out the solution later. That seems kid of dumb. But, whatever, this is all Trump's mess now. 

The Donald always manages to throw the normies and libs like myself who can handle him off the Trump train right when we start to like him. IMHO the Iran Deal was the model for a North Korea deal but hey maybe #MAGA will be able to get more with Iran having had the taste of sanctions relief. 

Damn man - it just seems so easy to me - let the tax cuts keep working, let your fed chair keep working, let the imperfect but solid Iran Deal stay (As Boris Johnson said, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater), build the wall, let the Dems overplay their "resistance" hand and go for using the "Art of the Deal" to end all deals with North Korea and his popularity steadily rises but he just can't help himself!

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Trump Pulls US Out of Iran Deal

Head of Mossad says Iran is completely complying.  So do a lot of other Israeli military and intelligence leaders.  But Netanyahu doesn't like it and Trump loves him and is surrounded by his big fans.  So off we go.  

Hey Israel, whatever else we can do for you, you just let us know. Nothing is too much.  

JMHO but I think the Saudi Arabia charm offensive has played a role too. They're already in a full-out proxy war with Iran. 

posted by BoatShoes

The Donald always manages to throw the normies and libs like myself who can handle him off the Trump train right when we start to like him. IMHO the Iran Deal was the model for a North Korea deal but hey maybe #MAGA will be able to get more with Iran having had the taste of sanctions relief. 

Damn man - it just seems so easy to me - let the tax cuts keep working, let your fed chair keep working, let the imperfect but solid Iran Deal stay (As Boris Johnson said, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater), build the wall, let the Dems overplay their "resistance" hand and go for using the "Art of the Deal" to end all deals with North Korea and his popularity steadily rises but he just can't help himself!

 

Agreed. Every time he starts to get a tailwind going, he goes full Drunk Uncle. 

Dont get me wrong, this deal was complete shit from the outset...but in the grand scheme of things really didn’t matter that much. It’s certainly not a hill worth dying on. 

He is not a politician; he has little interest in kicking the can down the road .......like so many others.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Head of Mossad says Iran is completely complying.  So do a lot of other Israeli military and intelligence leaders. 

What?!?  That sures sounds like fake news, and none of it is mentioned in the article you linked.

posted by gut

What?!?  That sures sounds like fake news, and none of it is mentioned in the article you linked.

https://apnews.com/4620cc8f50ff4419a110d4548d46647e

the former head of Israel’s Mossad spy agency said Iran is “fully complying with the nuclear deal.” Tamir Pardo told a security conference in the coastal town of Herzliya there “still will be a need for some kind of deal at the end of the day.”

In a recent interview, Israeli military chief of staff Lt. Gen. Gadi Eisenkot told Haaretz that he knows of no violations of the nuclear deal by Iran, though he said Israel is closely watching.

You can also look up any of the IAEA reports. Iran is complying with the deal. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

https://apnews.com/4620cc8f50ff4419a110d4548d46647e

the former head of Israel’s Mossad spy agency said Iran is “fully complying with the nuclear deal.”

The former head of Mossad is not the HEAD of Mossad.  And I didn't question whether Iran was in compliance or not, I questioned that Israeli intelligence would be openly criticizing and undermining Netanyahu (and for the most part, it's not current officials).

Lets not forget that 61% of congress voted against this deal and President Obama couldn't get Dems fully on board and yet he put it in place ayway.  It's a unilateral, Executive Office deal that when he was a Candidate Donald Trump vowed to withdraw from.  If our allies have a question on trust they should consider Mr. Turmp's follow through on this scenario.

"At the heart of the Iran deal was a giant fiction that a murderous regime desired only a peaceful nuclear energy program."

...my position form the beginning.

Meanwhile....is there not any concern over John Kerry's collusion with Iran?

Has Israel already started attacking Iran, or is it fake news?

All these deals have been nothing more then some middle ground of appeasement and waiting out an Administration and opportunity to break the agreement.  In the grand scheme of things, most likely nothing more than a different path to the same outcomes over the past 50 years.

I think proliferation has always been, and continues to be, an unacceptable outcome.  And in that regard kicking the can down the road is not a tactical strategy but a political (electoral) one.

posted by Con_Alma

"At the heart of the Iran deal was a giant fiction that a murderous regime desired only a peaceful nuclear energy program."

...my position form the beginning.

Meanwhile....is there not any concern over John Kerry's collusion with Iran?

 

I gather you are not in favor of the Trump policy with North Korea...as it is largely the same thing? A U.S. President talking to a murderous regime before they give up anything in particular. 

Also, is there ever a time to talk to Iran in your view then? Because, that strategy, before the deal, worked like a charm lol. 

posted by gut

All these deals have been nothing more then some middle ground of appeasement and waiting out an Administration and opportunity to break the agreement.  In the grand scheme of things, most likely nothing more than a different path to the same outcomes over the past 50 years.

I think proliferation has always been, and continues to be, an unacceptable outcome.  And in that regard kicking the can down the road is not a tactical strategy but a political (electoral) one.

 

Iran is complying with the agreement. That's the crazy thing. If President wanted to change the deal or extend it out, fine, do that, but to say, fuck it, we are done, is the dumbest thing. He also failed to offer up any solution. He just spewed a bunch of bullshit and Israeli talking points that were well known for 15 years and made his ego fell good. 

If Iran does decide to kick out the IAEA and blow the deal up, we can point the finger at Trump. He decided to just yell and scream,. instead of doing the responsible thing and fixing what, everyone agrees is a flawed deal, but one that is working as of right now. He could have easily said, the deal is flawed, but let's revisit some aspects of it. He could have said he could make it better. He is the deal maker. Instead, he punts and does not offer any solution. 

I would argue it is not appeasement as Iran has the right to enrich uranium for power purposes. We cannot take that away from them. We have a legally binding nonproliferation treaty that grants them that right. Now, we can verify that with IAEA safeguards, which we are doing now. But, for how much longer...I do not know. 

But, whatever. This is all on Trump now. He broke it, he buys it and if Iran goes nuclear, we will point back and say we had a system in place and the U.S. walked away from a deal that was working. 

posted by BoatShoes

The Donald always manages to throw the normies and libs like myself who can handle him off the Trump train right when we start to like him. IMHO the Iran Deal was the model for a North Korea deal but hey maybe #MAGA will be able to get more with Iran having had the taste of sanctions relief. 

Damn man - it just seems so easy to me - let the tax cuts keep working, let your fed chair keep working, let the imperfect but solid Iran Deal stay (As Boris Johnson said, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater), build the wall, let the Dems overplay their "resistance" hand and go for using the "Art of the Deal" to end all deals with North Korea and his popularity steadily rises but he just can't help himself!

 

While I agree with all of this.....once the Iran deal melts because we left the table....it will look like a good decision.  

posted by ptown_trojans_1

I gather you are not in favor of the Trump policy with North Korea...as it is largely the same thing? A U.S. President talking to a murderous regime before they give up anything in particular. 

Also, is there ever a time to talk to Iran in your view then? Because, that strategy, before the deal, worked like a charm lol. 

posted by gut

All these deals have been nothing more then some middle ground of appeasement and waiting out an Administration and opportunity to break the agreement.  In the grand scheme of things, most likely nothing more than a different path to the same outcomes over the past 50 years.

I think proliferation has always been, and continues to be, an unacceptable outcome.  And in that regard kicking the can down the road is not a tactical strategy but a political (electoral) one.

 

Iran is complying with the agreement. That's the crazy thing. If President wanted to change the deal or extend it out, fine, do that, but to say, fuck it, we are done, is the dumbest thing. He also failed to offer up any solution. He just spewed a bunch of bullshit and Israeli talking points that were well known for 15 years and made his ego fell good. 

If Iran does decide to kick out the IAEA and blow the deal up, we can point the finger at Trump. He decided to just yell and scream,. instead of doing the responsible thing and fixing what, everyone agrees is a flawed deal, but one that is working as of right now. He could have easily said, the deal is flawed, but let's revisit some aspects of it. He could have said he could make it better. He is the deal maker. Instead, he punts and does not offer any solution. 

I would argue it is not appeasement as Iran has the right to enrich uranium for power purposes. We cannot take that away from them. We have a legally binding nonproliferation treaty that grants them that right. Now, we can verify that with IAEA safeguards, which we are doing now. But, for how much longer...I do not know. 

But, whatever. This is all on Trump now. He broke it, he buys it and if Iran goes nuclear, we will point back and say we had a system in place and the U.S. walked away from a deal that was working. 

 

If you live by the executive order, you die by the executive order. I have no problem with any administration talking to North Korea or Iran. The talks are simple....you will not develop nuclear weapons. If you do, you will pay a heavy price. 

Human rights violations, funding terrorist activities and threatening allies are all reasons neither of those two countries deserve to be negotiated with. Comply or pay the price. I think we are going to learn what that price is very soon.   

Is there any concern that John Kerry may have violated the Logan Act or nah?

posted by gut

The former head of Mossad is not the HEAD of Mossad.  And I didn't question whether Iran was in compliance or not, I questioned that Israeli intelligence would be openly criticizing and undermining Netanyahu (and for the most part, it's not current officials).

That was my mistake.  But you can read that Israeli opinion is not all in agreement.  Let’s be honest, we have killed at least 100,000 people in the Middle East in the last 17 years due to bullshit premises.  I see this same thing setting up all over again with Iran.  We’ve got their country completely surrounded and we’re ready to go.  All we need is the command to go and we can lay waste to another country in search of WMDs that our president is sure are being prepared.  Sound familiar?  “If you’re not with us, you’re with the terrorists.”  

As long as the Israelis feel safe...that’s all that matters.......

posted by Con_Alma

Is there any concern that John Kerry may have violated the Logan Act or nah?

Well, the Logan Act is almost more idea than a "real" thing.....but Drumph!

Isn’t it law? ...federal law? ...or is it kind of like the federal ban against marijuana...and illegal immigration? 

posted by Con_Alma

Isn’t it law? ...federal law? ...or is it kind of like the federal ban against marijuana...and illegal immigration? 

I thought I read that only like 2-3 people have ever been prosecuted and no one convicted.  I always said that was some serious bullshit to pull with Flynn because I'd bet almost everyone in his [future] position has done the same during transition.....but that's the sort of thing that makes it a witch hunt.

...so it’s OK going forward to negotiate/influence separate of US officials???  Just trying to understand what’s appropriate for my own understanding. 

posted by Con_Alma

...so it’s OK going forward to negotiate/influence separate of US officials???  Just trying to understand what’s appropriate for my own understanding. 

I'm saying either the law lacks real teeth, or it's intended for something far more egregious.  2 indictments and 0 convinctions in over TWO HUNDRED years speaks for itself, no?

More than likely, Kerry did mean to violate the Logan act...so no chance of prosecution

posted by Con_Alma

Lets not forget that 61% of congress voted against this deal and President Obama couldn't get Dems fully on board and yet he put it in place ayway.  It's a unilateral, Executive Office deal that when he was a Candidate Donald Trump vowed to withdraw from.  If our allies have a question on trust they should consider Mr. Turmp's follow through on this scenario.

Thank you.

posted by Con_Alma

"At the heart of the Iran deal was a giant fiction that a murderous regime desired only a peaceful nuclear energy program."

...my position form the beginning.

Meanwhile....is there not any concern over John Kerry's collusion with Iran?

Bingo.

CBO estimates wrong .............. wow, what a surprise. 

And to think, we've only just begun.