posted by Heretic

Congress and the Senate also both voted overwhelmingly to impose more sanctions on Russia (98-2 in Senate and nearly as lop-sided in Congress), but, speaking of "stonewalling and obstruction on the part of the very institutions that should be above all this corruption", the White House apparently decided there was no need for them.

But I see your daily mewling doesn't cover this topic, which is about as far from shocking as humanly possible.

posted by QuakerOats

https://atr.org/list

 

Wonderful list of the massive number of businesses passing along savings to The People related to the tax reform legislation. 

 

 

Change we [really] believe in ...

....lol.

meanwhile, in between rooting out corruption at the highest levels of our most trusted institutions, we have more good news: 

SHALE SENDS US OUTPUT PAST HISTORIC 10 MILLION-BARREL MARK
US oil production surged above 10 million barrels a day for the first time in four decades.
  http://media.bishopi.com/ec.aspx?l=22035459&e=216417
 

And, Chevron just announced their largest discovery ever, deep in the Gulf in the Mexico.  To think there were bureaucrats, environmentalists, and other peak oil nuts who told us decades ago we were about out of oil ..................with many sheeple believing the nonsense.   

Unleashing human spirit, innovation and ingenuity because of economic and political freedom is our salvation. 

posted by Heretic

Congress and the Senate also both voted overwhelmingly to impose more sanctions on Russia (98-2 in Senate and nearly as lop-sided in Congress), but, speaking of "stonewalling and obstruction on the part of the very institutions that should be above all this corruption", the White House apparently decided there was no need for them.

QO would probably say Russian interference was bullshit in order to create the bullshit collusion narrative.

posted by gut

QO would probably say Russian interference was bullshit in order to create the bullshit collusion narrative.

At least QO would be responding instead of just pretending anything negative doesn't happen. 

posted by friendfromlowry

At least QO would be responding instead of just pretending anything negative doesn't happen. 

It's so hard to say.  So much of this whole thing has been fake news that it's hard to trust ANYTHING being reported.  Two lower-level (but still senior) DOJ people said the memo contained no factual errors or omissions.  But then you have the highest level guys - ones who are presumably in the crosshairs - saying there are serious issues.

Then you have slander-level allegations going back-and-forth between the Repubs and Dems.  It's all very explosive.  And if you think there's nothing to the entire Russia collusion thing (and we've seen no factual evidence/proof to suggest there is), then the Dems and DOJ have some explaining to do.  IMO, we have to see how it all plays out but the Dems and DOJ are pointing fingers at Repubs for a cover-up and obstruction in order to deflect from their own illegality and cover-up.

One or both of these parties needs to be SERIOUSLY taken to task by voters in 2018.

You can take the temperature on this thing by how unhinged the media is.  They are going crazy about this.

Basically makes everything seem true.  Obama administration and DNC colluded to rig a election.  They got caught and are really scared of jail time

posted by Spock

Obama administration and DNC colluded to rig a election.  They got caught and are really scared of jail time

Lol, yeah totally man!

posted by SportsAndLady

Lol, yeah totally man!

Yeah, beyond the Bernie thing (which has long been known), I don't see any "rigging" here.

However, I wouldn't dismiss that Dems seeking to preseve legacy and obstruct the Repub agenda.....joined with career staffers who [legitimately] feared a Trump presidency.  This all started at least back in Jul'16 - but none of it leaked or was used until after the election.  Because #1 they didn't find anything, and #2 they didn't think Hillary would lose.

I think the Obama Admin did some really, really shady shit....and not a surprise or without precedent [for them].  In 2012, Obama welcomed and encouraged gridlock hoping to regain Congress in 2014.  I mean, I've never been a conspiracy nut.....but it wouldn't surprise me that Obama/Valerie Jarrett would have orchestrated this to obstruct Trump/Repubs for 2-4 years until Dems regained control.  It's how he has always operated - create failure, point the finger and take more votes.

It is becoming quite obvious what occurred, and it is confirmed by the hysterical media reaction as well as the democrat reaction.

Let the chips fall.  

" The party of Chelsea Manning and Bowe Bergdahl is screaming about memos damaging national security." -Sean Spicier

posted by Con_Alma

" The party of Chelsea Manning and Bowe Bergdahl is screaming about memos damaging national security." -Sean Spicier

Pretty humorous 

http://www.foxnews.com//politics/2018/02/02/house-memo-states-disputed-dossier-was-key-to-fbi-s-fisa-warrant-to-surveil-members-team-trump.html

"Obamagate"

http://thefederalist.com/2018/02/02/house-intel-memo-fisa-abuse-just-released-read/

I read it. 

It is one piece of information, and one version of it. I thought there would be more. 

My obvious question is, a judge still approved the application, so was there any evidence that was available after the fact to keep the application on Carter Page going? 

Obviously, the pro Trumpers on here will be all OH MY GOD, but this is just one datapoint in this mess of a story. I just need to see more that provides more context and the exact timeline with the FISA court, Page, and everything. 

This is added richness to the theater of Hillery actually losing to a guy like Trump. 

...soooo, the memo is basically the FBI knowingly misleading the FISA court by using a political document paid for by the Clinton campaign to gain permission to spy on Trump. Have I got that correct or is there something else in this?

posted by Con_Alma

...soooo, the memo is basically the FBI knowingly misleading the FISA court by using a political document paid for by the Clinton campaign to gain permission to spy on Trump. Have I got that correct or is there something else in this?

Did they? 

My question is, and we won't know without the actual FISC Applications, is what evidence was used to keep the application going? Did they find more dirt and that was the reason the applications kept going? 

Also, did they use the FISC to try and verify or double check the info from the Dossier? They eventually deemed the Dossier not credible, but at what point and how did they determine that? 

We just don't know and won't unless the actual FISC applications are fully declassified. 

Remember, this is just one data point, one version, from one party, of what was going on. It is not the whole story. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Did they? 

Don't know, but as one of the few true non-partisans on the board, there is certainly enough "there there" to have an independent investigation.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Did they? 

Isn't that the concern.....did they?

posted by queencitybuckeye

Don't know, but as one of the few true non-partisans on the board, there is certainly enough "there there" to have an independent investigation.

 

posted by Con_Alma

Isn't that the concern.....did they?

Sure. But, I guess this goes to the bigger question as well, the whole FISA and FISC process. A judge did look at all the evidence and still gave the green light. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

 

posted by Con_Alma

Isn't that the concern.....did they?

Sure. But, I guess this goes to the bigger question as well, the whole FISA and FISC process. A judge did look at all the evidence and still gave the green light. 

 

To be fair, the judge was not given the information that the Dossier was bought and paid for by the DNC and the Clinton campaign. With that information he/she may have been able to see a bias slant in the Dossier to begin with.

They purposefully withheld the most important piece of information from the fisa judge in order to obtain the warrant.  

THAT IS A FUCKING CRIMINAL ACT --- FRAUD, OBSTRUCTION ......you name it. 

GET IN THE GAME!

....so the FBI knowingly misled the judge by virtue of ommitting information of Clinton camp funding a dossier in order to get a warrant.

I thought that's what I posted the first time.  Am I offbase with that?

posted by jmog

To be fair, the judge was not given the information that the Dossier was bought and paid for by the DNC and the Clinton campaign. With that information he/she may have been able to see a bias slant in the Dossier to begin with.

posted by QuakerOats

They purposefully withheld the most important piece of information from the fisa judge in order to obtain the warrant.  

THAT IS A FUCKING CRIMINAL ACT --- FRAUD, OBSTRUCTION ......you name it. 

GET IN THE GAME!

 

posted by Con_Alma

....so the FBI knowingly misled the judge by virtue of ommitting information of Clinton camp funding a dossier in order to get a warrant.

 

I thought that's what I posted the first time.  Am I offbase with that?

Are we sure? Again, we again do not have access to all the court documents. 

Maybe there was another reason to keep the FISC going? 

This why I think, if you go this route, release it all. Release the FISC applications, even redacted versions. If it as bad as they say, it would be shown in the applications and court documents.