This restaurant owner is a fool, no argument there. However, taking the moral high ground that “the left” always lashes out lower than “the right” is ludicrous. Extremists on both ends are whack jobs and for every one story that is horrible one end, it’s easy to find one worse on the other. It’s a fool’s errand to try and establish one group’s higher moral fiber. 

I also don’t believe there is this group called “the left” that speaks with one voice. There are all kinds of liberals just like there are all kinds of conservatives. 

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

I also don’t believe there is this group called “the left” that speaks with one voice. There are all kinds of liberals just like there are all kinds of conservatives. 

Do you honestly think a classical liberal would do an action such as the restaurant things (there were two incidents now within days of each other)? I don't think a liberal would do that whatsoever. Hell, I'd bet that a liberal would serve those people and tuck the money into the register. Seven people is a good amount of change to add to your ledgers.

I think it's also a bad idea to try to compare a conservative to a progressive.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

This restaurant owner is a fool, no argument there. However, taking the moral high ground that “the left” always lashes out lower than “the right” is ludicrous. Extremists on both ends are whack jobs and for every one story that is horrible one end, it’s easy to find one worse on the other.

Is it?  Not since the abortion clinic bombings in the 80's have I seen any of this behavior from the "right".  And nazi's and hate groups are not the "right", but that's how the Left loves to label them.  What examples from the right can you give me of all these marches and protests, of Doxxing people, etc?

The "whack jobs" on the left are far more numerous and mainstream.  You have celebrities saying F the President, severed head, and all kinds of shit.  There are NYT editorials lamenting how Trump is destroying Democracy.  This is crazy, radical irrational stuff coming from notable, mainstream people.

No, when it comes to offending/bullying/intimidating people you disagree with, no one outdoes the left.  Except possibly Trump himself - so you're starting to understand why people might have voted for him.

On second thought, I wonder if the owner didn't just spot this an an opportunity for free publicity.  Seems you might alienate half your customer base....but just got a ton of free national & local press.

Not to mention, more publicity to come when other virtue signalers want to go their and tweet and take selfies to show how woke they are.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

This restaurant owner is a fool, no argument there. However, taking the moral high ground that “the left” always lashes out lower than “the right” is ludicrous. Extremists on both ends are whack jobs and for every one story that is horrible one end, it’s easy to find one worse on the other. It’s a fool’s errand to try and establish one group’s higher moral fiber. 

 

I also don’t believe there is this group called “the left” that speaks with one voice. There are all kinds of liberals just like there are all kinds of conservatives. 

Expected this post out of you. The left has been the complete group of cunts in the last 2 years. Doxxing people, yelling at them at restaurants, not serving them; this shit is all recent. There may not be a “left” per se, but the mainstream left is way farther left then they have ever been, and it’s scary as shit if they ever get in power. 

Laughing out loud imagining if some black person from the obama admin got kicked out of a restaurant. You’re fucking high if you think the outrage wouldn’t have lasted weeks.

posted by iclfan2

Expected this post out of you. The left has been the complete group of cunts in the last 2 years. Doxxing people, yelling at them at restaurants, not serving them; this shit is all recent. There may not be a “left” per se, but the mainstream left is way farther left then they have ever been, and it’s scary as shit if they ever get in power. 

Laughing out loud imagining if some black person from the obama admin got kicked out of a restaurant. You’re fucking high if you think the outrage wouldn’t have lasted weeks.

If a black person from the Obama admin got kicked out of a restaurant, you bet we’d be hearing lots about it.  I’m not sure what’s that got to do with this though. This woman was unfairly treated and we are hearing about it incessantly.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

If a black person from the Obama admin got kicked out of a restaurant, you bet we’d be hearing lots about it.  I’m not sure what’s that got to do with this though. This woman was unfairly treated and we are hearing about it incessantly.

 

 

Actually, the left tweeted about it as a win, UNTIL Sarah tweeted what happened, then all shit broke loose. They then blamed her for being petty and even talking about it. Dude, just accept sometimes the left is dumb as fuck, instead of trying to justify everything. I hope that dudes business goes bankrupt bc people who politicize the free market deserve it.

posted by gut

Is it?  Not since the abortion clinic bombings in the 80's have I seen any of this behavior from the "right".  And nazi's and hate groups are not the "right", but that's how the Left loves to label them.  What examples from the right can you give me of all these marches and protests, of Doxxing people, etc?

The "whack jobs" on the left are far more numerous and mainstream.  You have celebrities saying F the President, severed head, and all kinds of shit.  There are NYT editorials lamenting how Trump is destroying Democracy.  This is crazy, radical irrational stuff coming from notable, mainstream people.

No, when it comes to offending/bullying/intimidating people you disagree with, no one outdoes the left.  Except possibly Trump himself - so you're starting to understand why people might have voted for him.

If Nazis and hate groups aren’t part of the right, why couldn’t you also say these extreme left groups are not part of the left?  These are the extremes from both ends. We hear all about them because we’re saturated with media.  In all reality, the vast majority of the population has nothing in common with any of this.  This restaurant owner, Ted Nugent, that actor that made comments about taking Trump’s kid, Pat Robertson, etc. These guys are good for stories that piss people off. But I all honesty, they are not the type of people you or I encounter in our day. Fox, CNN, Breitbart, MSNBC feed this stuff out to create the false sense that these incidents are part of a greater movement that is threatening our country. That’s a bunch of BS. Sure, our coitry’s divided in a lot of ways. It was divided during the revolution, during the constitutional cenvention, during the civil war, during Teddy Roosevelt’s trust busting, etc. The media published stories thatHamilton was a British agent, that Lincoln was part negro, that the Cubans were raping American woman (to promote outrage and support for the war with Spain), and on and on. After almost 250years, we are not at some unique and unprecedented point. We are merely proceeding on the same journey we’ve always been on. We just happen to live in a time when information about how th sausage is made is much easier to get than in the past. 

I'm coming off a three-day bender at the local race track so my brain is struggling a bit to process, but it seems to me that a place refusing to serve someone because they're a Trumpian is the same as that cake place not making a cake for a gay couple because of their religious belief. If one sucks, the other sucks; if one is cool, the other is cool. Saying one is different from the other is where bias comes in.

posted by Heretic

I'm coming off a three-day bender at the local race track so my brain is struggling a bit to process, but it seems to me that a place refusing to serve someone because they're a Trumpian is the same as that cake place not making a cake for a gay couple because of their religious belief. If one sucks, the other sucks; if one is cool, the other is cool. Saying one is different from the other is where bias comes in.

No one here is going to agree with you. 

posted by Heretic

I'm coming off a three-day bender at the local race track so my brain is struggling a bit to process, but it seems to me that a place refusing to serve someone because they're a Trumpian is the same as that cake place not making a cake for a gay couple because of their religious belief. If one sucks, the other sucks; if one is cool, the other is cool. Saying one is different from the other is where bias comes in.

So you agree that the left is being ridiculous in cheering this on while condemning the cake shop owner? Agreed

My problem w the whole situation is that the left thinks Sanders shouldn’t have even mentioned that it happened. I’m all for private business owners doing what they want (which the left is against) but you can bet your ass the free market will have something to say about it.

posted by friendfromlowry

No one here is going to agree with you. 

I agree it is his right to go on a three day bender!

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

If Nazis and hate groups aren’t part of the right, why couldn’t you also say these extreme left groups are not part of the left?  

Maxine Waters just called for more harassment of Trump administration officials.  Now, would you like to re-think this silly little argument of yours?

There are no mainstream Nazi's or hate groups that I'm aware of that have much of a platform.  They only get any coverage at all when the left is using them to portray Republicans as racist, etc...Westboro Baptist Church is about the only recent example I can think of from the right, but this crap from the left is happening on almost a daily basis.  FAR more widespread and mainstream because, look above, the leaders of that party with a platform condone and encourage this behavior.

Another great thing about Trump is he's given these people the excuse to be who they've always been.  But clearly some people still aren't opening their eyes to just how much hate drives the left.

posted by Heretic

I'm coming off a three-day bender at the local race track so my brain is struggling a bit to process, but it seems to me that a place refusing to serve someone because they're a Trumpian is the same as that cake place not making a cake for a gay couple because of their religious belief. If one sucks, the other sucks; if one is cool, the other is cool. Saying one is different from the other is where bias comes in.

I think both business owners are workin their rights to deny service.  I also think the free market can decide which one stays open.

posted by Heretic

...but it seems to me that a place refusing to serve someone because they're a Trumpian is the same as that cake place not making a cake for a gay couple because of their religious belief.

Religion is a protected class.  In many states, sexual preference is not.  Employers and political beliefs are not a protected class, anywhere.

So, yes, with respect to the law the incidents are quite different.

posted by iclfan2

So you agree that the left is being ridiculous in cheering this on while condemning the cake shop owner? Agreed

Lol

posted by gut

Religion is a protected class.  In many states, sexual preference is not.  Employers and political beliefs are not a protected class, anywhere.

So, yes, with respect to the law the incidents are quite different.

Lol

posted by gut

Maxine Waters just called for more harassment of Trump administration officials.  Now, would you like to re-think this silly little argument of yours?

Link to the extreme elected official (also half retarded)

https://twitter.com/realsaavedra/status/1010981944056664064?s=12

From the HuffPo, women are evil!

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/opinion-lenz-evil-women_us_5b2a7597e4b0f0b9e9a7b6d8

posted by gut

Maxine Waters just called for more harassment of Trump administration officials.  Now, would you like to re-think this silly little argument of yours?

There are no mainstream Nazi's or hate groups that I'm aware of that have much of a platform.  They only get any coverage at all when the left is using them to portray Republicans as racist, etc...Westboro Baptist Church is about the only recent example I can think of from the right, but this crap from the left is happening on almost a daily basis.  FAR more widespread and mainstream because, look above, the leaders of that party with a platform condone and encourage this behavior.

Another great thing about Trump is he's given these people the excuse to be who they've always been.  But clearly some people still aren't opening their eyes to just how much hate drives the left.

When Obama was in office, nutty ass people were the subject of frequent stories having to do with how much they hated Obama.  I bet this was described as Obama giving these people the excuse to be who they always were.  If I Right Wing Watch, I will see the world through a lens whereby right wing nut jobs are everywhere and destroying the country.  If I get my stories from Breitbart, I’ll be perpetually angry about the left wing great to our freedom.  Neither of those are real views of the world most all of us live in.  

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

When Obama was in office, nutty ass people were the subject of frequent stories having to do with how much they hated Obama.  I bet this was described as Obama giving these people the excuse to be who they always were.  If I Right Wing Watch, I will see the world through a lens whereby right wing nut jobs are everywhere and destroying the country.  If I get my stories from Breitbart, I’ll be perpetually angry about the left wing great to our freedom.  Neither of those are real views of the world most all of us live in.  

LMFAO.  Such denial and spin.  No one needs to go to Breitbart for this crap, it's all over the mainstream news.  The false equivalency you keep going to is just sad.

Again, where are all the numerous examples of the "right wing nutjobs" harassing liberals at restaurants and their homes, shutting down traffic and interfering with business and commerce?  No, the Nazi's and other hate groups you keep trying to attach to conservatives rarely do that crap.   Where the million swatiska march?

The left is throwing out some really dangerous and inflammatory shit.  We have seeing nothing like this from the right since probably the 80's pro life movement (and you know where that went before we put a stop to it).  Have the honesty to acknowledge it.

posted by gut

LMFAO.  Such denial and spin.  No one needs to go to Breitbart for this crap, it's all over the mainstream news.  The false equivalency you keep going to is just sad.

Again, where are all the numerous examples of the "right wing nutjobs" harassing liberals at restaurants and their homes, shutting down traffic and interfering with business and commerce?  No, the Nazi's and other hate groups you keep trying to attach to conservatives rarely do that crap.   Where the million swatiska march?

The left is throwing out some really dangerous and inflammatory shit.  We have seeing nothing like this from the right since probably the 80's pro life movement (and you know where that went before we put a stop to it).  Have the honesty to acknowledge it.

Let's see - just off the top of my head, protesters outside former Cbus area Congresswoman Mary Jo Kilroy's office throwing money at a counter-protester with Parkinson's and,berating him; John Lewis being called a Nigger during the Obama care Tea Party protests: Barney Frank being called a Faggot, etc. by tea party protesters; Michele Bachmann telling Tea Party Protesters to be Armed and Dangerous and referencing the need for,armed revolution over cap and trade proposals in 2009; Conservative Talk Radio Hosts like Mark Levin and Michael Savage calling for armed revolution against Obama; Sara Palin referencing the need for 2nd Amendment Solutions due to Death Panels; Rep steve King today suggesting that "Fort Sumter is next"

It is quite entertaining. Your endless whining about the hateful rhetoric by left wing nutjobs and minimal whining about Trump's self-imposed blunders almost perfectly matches your penchant to ignore right-wing nut job hysteria and whine about everything Obama ever did.

And with that said let us all remember the right wing frenzy that ensued when Obama got Dijon mustard on a cheeseburger. 

posted by BoatShoes

Let's see - just off the top of my head, protesters outside former Cbus area Congresswoman Mary Jo Kilroy's office throwing money at a counter-protester with Parkinson's and,berating him; John Lewis being called a Nigger during the Obama care Tea Party protests: Barney Frank being called a Faggot, etc. by tea party protesters; Michele Bachmann telling Tea Party Protesters to be Armed and Dangerous and referencing the need for,armed revolution over cap and trade proposals in 2009; Conservative Talk Radio Hosts like Mark Levin and Michael Savage calling for armed revolution against Obama; Sara Palin referencing the need for 2nd Amendment Solutions due to Death Panels; Rep steve King today suggesting that "Fort Sumter is next"

It is quite entertaining. Your endless whining about the hateful rhetoric by left wing nutjobs and minimal whining about Trump's self-imposed blunders almost perfectly matches your penchant to ignore right-wing nut job hysteria and whine about everything Obama ever did.

And with that said let us all remember the right wing frenzy that ensued when Obama got Dijon mustard on a cheeseburger. 

 

I think everybody can safely say that we can go back and forth on stupidass things said by both sides. I do agree that rhetoric can be highly inflammatory and push the nuts into action. 

But I'll play along, BS! Add 12 more incidents to your list above, I'll start with a handicap. It wouldn't add up to the actual physical violence perpetrated by the crazies on the left in the past two years. From bashing people over the head with bike locks, to wolfpacking a man because "he looked conservative", to black bloc attacks (antifa, BAMN, etc.) punching Nazis, to shooting people at baseball practice, I mean the violence done at Berkeley alone in the past two years outnumbers your list plus the 12.

So, yeah, it's really not productive or will lead to anything by going back and forth. It's really a useless endeavor. I will admit, however, that the practice was sometimes amusing to me when Isadore was around and engaged in it lol!

So then we come to the actual question of inflammatory rhetoric vs actual violence and which is worse. I say that physicality is worse, but there can be a case made for the reverse, I guess. Either way, all these things on both sides do is further separate us.

posted by gut

LMFAO.  Such denial and spin.  No one needs to go to Breitbart for this crap, it's all over the mainstream news.  The false equivalency you keep going to is just sad.

Again, where are all the numerous examples of the "right wing nutjobs" harassing liberals at restaurants and their homes, shutting down traffic and interfering with business and commerce?  No, the Nazi's and other hate groups you keep trying to attach to conservatives rarely do that crap.   Where the million swatiska march?

The left is throwing out some really dangerous and inflammatory shit.  We have seeing nothing like this from the right since probably the 80's pro life movement (and you know where that went before we put a stop to it).  Have the honesty to acknowledge it.

I'm not denying anything.  There are plenty of nut jobs on the left with this restaurant owner being the latest example.  There's no "spin" or anything else.  All I'm saying is that labeling one side as nuttier or more dangerous than the other is impossible because there will always be examples on the other that are worse or more obnoxious.  Whoever is in the WH is always going to provoke stories of extreme political fanatics doing stupid things.  What I really challenge though is the idea that these stories are representative of some greater societal movement.  Outside of Washington, most people go about their lives without engaging in anything like this.  When talk radio, 24 cable news and those types of things focus on these stories, they begin to seem like something much greater than they are.  One source picks up or promotes a story, another passes the same thing along.  Next thing you know, it is coming from many different directions and seems like it is much bigger than it is.  

Nut jobs are nut jobs.  There are more more lefties willing to use molotov cocktails, so they're more dangerous.  No, there are more righties who are willing to shoot people, so they're more dangerous.  No, there are more lefties who confront government representatives in public, so they are more dangerous.  No, there are more righties who use religion to politically indoctrinate, so they are more dangerous.  

On and on you can go like you're peeling an onion.  Sure every side wants to believe it is morally above its opponents.  But in reality, this is a fight between very few and the rest of us are getting drawn into watching it and cheering about it when in reality it is insignificant.  

posted by CenterBHSFan

I think everybody can safely say that we can go back and forth on stupidass things said by both sides. I do agree that rhetoric can be highly inflammatory and push the nuts into action. 

But I'll play along, BS! Add 12 more incidents to your list above, I'll start with a handicap. It wouldn't add up to the actual physical violence perpetrated by the crazies on the left in the past two years. From bashing people over the head with bike locks, to wolfpacking a man because "he looked conservative", to black bloc attacks (antifa, BAMN, etc.) punching Nazis, to shooting people at baseball practice, I mean the violence done at Berkeley alone in the past two years outnumbers your list plus the 12.

So, yeah, it's really not productive or will lead to anything by going back and forth. It's really a useless endeavor. I will admit, however, that the practice was sometimes amusing to me when Isadore was around and engaged in it lol!

So then we come to the actual question of inflammatory rhetoric vs actual violence and which is worse. I say that physicality is worse, but there can be a case made for the reverse, I guess. Either way, all these things on both sides do is further separate us.

The main difference to me is one side has the national media to pretty much control the national discussion.   When the right does the shit BS just listed, the media is there to shame them immediately or in some cases tie in an entire group of people with vile behavior (see Charlottesville).   These aren't just random left leaning blogs I am talking about.  This is CNN, NBC, CBS, NYT, etc.

On the flip side, when this shit happens on the left, the same media is nowhere to be found shaming these people.  In fact it is more likely they celebrate it than not.  At the very least they brush it aside.  Has a left leaning source condemned Maxine yet?  The red hen owner?  The DOJ employee harrasing the DHS secretary?  I am legitimately asking, because I don't know and haven't seen it.  Some of you all get rattled by Fox News (disclaimer: i dont watch fox news... just wanted to get that out of the way, before it I am accused of being a Fox News stan), but they aren't even close to ever dominating the national discussion.  I can't think of a time in the last 10 years, where Fox News (or the smaller conservative media outlets) dominated any discussion nationally. Can anyone?  

Just look at how the media covered the POS driver in Charlottesville vs a crazy socialist trying to (and coming very close) commit mass murder on a bunch of GOP congressmen. 

Btw, these two things are not mutually exclusive

-A business should be able to serve anyone they please.

-A business refusing service to somebody is disgraceful behavior (in most cases).

The people who were hysterical over the gay couple not getting their cake, but are celebrating the red hen are hypocrites.  Just like people celebrating the gay baker, but crying the Red Hen should be sued are hypocrites.