posted by kizer permanente

So refute me.  Oh that’s right. All you do is say everyone is dumb and you’re right. 

Ok Quaker. 

posted by kizer permanente
Nope... the electoral college effects the presidency and gerrymandering affects the House. 

The popular vote isn’t a thing, it never has been. It never will be. No one should even talk about it bc it doesn’t matter. Sorry you fell for it. The house obviously is the only thing gerrymandering does , and no one has ever cared or talked about it 

posted by jmog

Ok Quaker. 

Exactly great rebuttal.

Here’s one for you and Icl 

https://news.gallup.com/poll/246278/abortion-trends-party.aspx

8% of democrats believe abortion should be illegal 

27% of republicans do.  That’s a large chunk of a voting base. I wouldn’t call that a non issue. 

posted by iclfan2

The popular vote isn’t a thing, it never has been. It never will be. No one should even talk about it bc it doesn’t matter. Sorry you fell for it. The house obviously is the only thing gerrymandering does , and no one has ever cared or talked about it 

It is when determining how a majority of Americans think and feel which is what I was referring to. You’re right though, it doesn’t for elections.  But I didn’t make that point.  

posted by kizer permanente

So refute me.  Oh that’s right. All you do is say everyone is dumb and you’re right. 

Took 5 seconds on google to debunk your bullshit Quaker.

Polling still shows the US center-right...

Stay off MSNBC and Occupy Democrats and you may see reality rather than the bullshit they feed you.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/275792/remained-center-right-ideologically-2019.aspx

posted by kizer permanente

Exactly great rebuttal.

Here’s one for you and Icl 

https://news.gallup.com/poll/246278/abortion-trends-party.aspx

8% of democrats believe abortion should be illegal 

27% of republicans do.  That’s a large chunk of a voting base. I wouldn’t call that a non issue. 

Only 1 in 4 people in the US consider abortion a key voting issue.

Another dumb thing you said debunked...

I could keep going Quaker but you get the idea now..

https://news.gallup.com/poll/313316/one-four-americans-consider-abortion-key-voting-issue.aspx

posted by jmog

Took 5 seconds on google to debunk your bullshit Quaker.

Polling still shows the US center-right...

Stay off MSNBC and Occupy Democrats and you may see reality rather than the bullshit they feed you.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/275792/remained-center-right-ideologically-2019.aspx

You just linked a poll on how people would refer to themselves Lol. That has absolute nothing to do on how they feel on policy. How people feel on social issues.  Just if they see themselves “conservative” or not. That’s literally the most worthless poll you could have found. 

posted by jmog

Only 1 in 4 people in the US consider abortion a key voting issue.

Another dumb thing you said debunked...

I could keep going Quaker but you get the idea now..

https://news.gallup.com/poll/313316/one-four-americans-consider-abortion-key-voting-issue.aspx

So that’s your rebuttal? 1 and 4 people is a non issue? 25% of our population is a non issue? 

posted by jmog

Took 5 seconds on google to debunk your bullshit Quaker.

Polling still shows the US center-right...

Stay off MSNBC and Occupy Democrats and you may see reality rather than the bullshit they feed you.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/275792/remained-center-right-ideologically-2019.aspx

https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2020/09/23/mitt-romney-says-america/

This specifically addresses what’s wrong with the poll you linked. How people identify and how they actually feel on policy are 2 different things  

What else is specifically wrong with your poll is when you ask people if they’re conservative or liberal... that’s not asking if you’re right of center or left of center.  The right loves to claim everyone who is a democrat is a liberal. Which couldn’t be further from the truth.  We’ve been thru this but if it was true Bernie and Warren would win.  Not Biden and Hillary and Obama.  There’s a majority of Dems who wouldn’t call themselves liberals bc they’re not. Which is why having a poll asking if you’re conservative or liberal is inherently flawed from the get go. 

posted by kizer permanente

So that’s your rebuttal? 1 and 4 people is a non issue? 25% of our population is a non issue? 

To expand on this.. our elections are literally determined by changes of 1 and 2%. To say 1/4 Americans is a moot point is a pretty bad take. 

The Liberal Quaker going off the rails tonight. 

At least with SnL we know he is trolling, it appears you believe this crap.

posted by jmog

The Liberal Quaker going off the rails tonight. 

At least with SnL we know he is trolling, it appears you believe this crap.

Ok dude.  We get it. you’re smart. Everyone else is dumb. When they provide rebuttals to you, that’s what you resort to.  Bc you couldn’t possibly be wrong. So we’ll gaslight and call them dumb. That’s a great personality trait to have. Must be fun to live with you. 

posted by kizer permanente

Ok dude.  We get it. you’re smart. Everyone else is dumb. When they provide rebuttals to you, that’s what you resort to.  Bc you couldn’t possibly be wrong. So we’ll gaslight and call them dumb. That’s a great personality trait to have. Must be fun to live with you. 

Now you do sound like SnL...so congratulations on that I guess...

posted by jmog

Now you do sound like SnL...so congratulations on that I guess...

Well I guess you’re the common denominator? Don’t worry most people aren’t self aware.  

Have a good one. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Cite me the passage in the Constitution where it sets the number of justices? It is simply set by Congress. Congress can thus pass a new law and expand it if they want and the courts would have zero reason to strike it down. 

Congress could also get creative and start to reform or set new standards on how justices are appointed and confirmed if they wanted to. Mayor Pete had a few interesting ideas, but I've also seen where they can say each President can nominate 1 or 2 every four years.

I think all options are on the table and we could use this time to actually reform our broken nominating process. 

“Moderate right” ptown LOL.

So Keith Olbermann is the latest lefty to call for the rounding up of not only ACB, but right wingers in general, and removing them from society. The first time I personally noticed this was those Bernie staffers that were talking about reeducation camps and guillotines. Since then there have been professors from ivy leagues, other celebrities (I'm putting Olbermann into this category), antifa and other whackos making the same claims or very akin to it. 

Is this the escalation of "muh orange man bad!" because the election is just around the corner or are we just getting deeper and deeper into ideological conflict?

posted by jmog

The Liberal Quaker going off the rails tonight. 

At least with SnL we know he is trolling, it appears you believe this crap.

Off the rails lol? It appears he's trying to have a civil discussion and you're calling him a dumb, idiotic troll. 

posted by CenterBHSFan

So Keith Olbermann is the latest lefty to call for the rounding up of not only ACB, but right wingers in general, and removing them from society. The first time I personally noticed this was those Bernie staffers that were talking about reeducation camps and guillotines. Since then there have been professors from ivy leagues, other celebrities (I'm putting Olbermann into this category), antifa and other whackos making the same claims or very akin to it. 

Is this the escalation of "muh orange man bad!" because the election is just around the corner or are we just getting deeper and deeper into ideological conflict?

Keith Olberman is a very unhappy person. He used to have a segment called "Worst Person in the World".  You've got to be a extraordinarily unhappy person to think like that. 

posted by Fab4Runner

Off the rails lol? It appears he's trying to have a civil discussion and you're calling him a dumb, idiotic troll. 

Yeah ... there’s no room for conversation with people like him. 

posted by kizer permanente

Yeah ... there’s no room for conversation with people like him. 

Sir, I disagree with your takes. Can we discuss? 

posted by like_that

Sir, I disagree with your takes. Can we discuss? 

Sure... I’m interested to see why people feel the US is center-right. It doesn’t appear to be if you believe polling on policy. If you don’t, I guess I get that. 

posted by kizer permanente

Sure... I’m interested to see why people feel the US is center-right. It doesn’t appear to be if you believe polling on policy. If you don’t, I guess I get that. 

To me, it seems that if you go by pure population (aka: the national popular vote), it's center-left. If you go by the locations of said population, it's center-right because a lot of the left is centered in particular cities/states and, therefore, not able to take advantage of how they, as you mentioned, have won the popular vote a lot recently.

I think a decent-sized part of why, for example, Ohio has gone a bit more red in recent years comes from a lot of kids in more rural areas who are left-wingers in a conservative area decide they don't want to be "the one liberal" in their age group in their community and move somewhere where most people are more in line with their views. Which, when enough people do that, just means that a typically Blue state gets even more Blue, while Ohio winds up going from 50-50 to 53-47 Red or so.

The other decent-size part is, obviously, the more moderate/centrist/undecided people who might go one way more often than not, but will go the other way if the candidate is better on that side. With the large number of generally uninspiring candidates both parties have used in recent times, that does create the potential for a sizable number of flip-floppers. If you take the last five elections, Ohio was about 50-47ish R during Bush's terms, 51-47 D during Obama's and 52-44 R in the past election and a lot of that really has to come down how much the general public either liked the winner or disliked the loser (in particular Hillary, due to how she got the lowest in-state number of either major party candidate in those past five elections in Ohio).

posted by Heretic

To me, it seems that if you go by pure population (aka: the national popular vote), it's center-left. If you go by the locations of said population, it's center-right because a lot of the left is centered in particular cities/states and, therefore, not able to take advantage of how they, as you mentioned, have won the popular vote a lot recently.

I think a decent-sized part of why, for example, Ohio has gone a bit more red in recent years comes from a lot of kids in more rural areas who are left-wingers in a conservative area decide they don't want to be "the one liberal" in their age group in their community and move somewhere where most people are more in line with their views. Which, when enough people do that, just means that a typically Blue state gets even more Blue, while Ohio winds up going from 50-50 to 53-47 Red or so.

The other decent-size part is, obviously, the more moderate/centrist/undecided people who might go one way more often than not, but will go the other way if the candidate is better on that side. With the large number of generally uninspiring candidates both parties have used in recent times, that does create the potential for a sizable number of flip-floppers. If you take the last five elections, Ohio was about 50-47ish R during Bush's terms, 51-47 D during Obama's and 52-44 R in the past election and a lot of that really has to come down how much the general public either liked the winner or disliked the loser (in particular Hillary, due to how she got the lowest in-state number of either major party candidate in those past five elections in Ohio).

If you go by pure population there’s no question the country is center-left. But I’m more talking about how people feel on policies, not by how people identify a name. Most people will say they’re democrat or republican or independent because their family, friends, surroundings are etc etc.  but when you poll people on progressive policies, a majority are generally in favor of them. Like the article I linked to jmog which he inherently dismissed bc he’s too smart for it, most people agree with paid maternity and paternity leave, most believe in government funded child care. And these were like 85% not 55%. And albeit much closer, a majority still agreed with free college and healthcare.  Those aren’t right ideologies. Those a progressive left ideologies.  The thing you’ll find tho is Most people don’t vote on policy.  Most people vote who’s popular and who they think can win. So people vote against their interests more often than not IMO.

Like I said, this is off polling so it’s not exact science, but if you believe polling on policy, it shows the US is center-left not center-right. 

posted by kizer permanente

Sure... I’m interested to see why people feel the US is center-right. It doesn’t appear to be if you believe polling on policy. If you don’t, I guess I get that. 

I don't care what people say (polls), and firmly believe that people often vote against their best interests in favor of shit like "my family's always voted for the ____________ ".