Waynedale Football?

• eyes r burning

  wcalfan;1291523 wrote:Dude....I am really not twisting anything. Can't you see that I am agreeing with you to a point? Don't be so defensive. I get it!!!!!!!!!!!!

  REALLY? Do not DUDE me, why past that. What point aren't you agreeing too? Only thing I said was numbers low, lets work on that. Are you not agreeing as to why?
• wcalfan

  eyes r burning;1291528 wrote:REALLY? Do not DUDE me, why past that. What point aren't you agreeing too? Only thing I said was numbers low, lets work on that. Are you not agreeing as to why?

  Eyes...don't get cocky here...the "numbers" is a SMALL part of the problem. You act like you should receive the Nobel Prize with your revelation. Our numbers aren't really that low compared to other schools. Check it out. Could we use more kids? Sure...but again this whole turnaround needs to start in the home. If it doesn't, then you might as well not even try to start to right this ship.
  
  My gosh, I give a tiny compliment and you think I should kneel before you. Give me a break man!
• jb9999

  After reading everyone’s posts I’m pretty sure none of you ever played for coach Z. I did. So here’s my POV. If you’re on the outside looking in coach Z seems like a great guy. He says all the right things to the parents. He talks about team work and that hard work will get you play time. I was lucky and got a lot of playing time, but there were a lot kids who worked their butts off only to find themselves playing behind younger kids who didn’t work as hard and earn the play time but Z figured they would be big time players when they became upper classmen. My point is that the hard work didn’t pay off and a lot of kids, even the ones that got play time lost respect for Z. How would you feel at your job if your boss told you that if you worked hard and did certain things that you would get promoted or make more money and then he gives someone else the promotion that you worked so hard for. Someone that didn’t yet earn the shot or put in the time? Ya, that may be life but it doesn't change how you would feel about your boss. Another thing is that Z would never yell at the QB for throwing an interception or the RB for fumbling but would rip a lineman for missing a block. On defense some kids would get run over and he would just tell them to get in a better stance to make the tackle but yell at other kids for making a tackle with the wrong body position. He has his favorites like it or not. The majority of the kids on all these small school teams are average athletes, me included. Z is not interested in the average athlete. He has very little patience and doesn’t like coaching the average kid. But if you’re going to win games you need all the kids to play their best. If he got on his star athletes for making mistakes like he does the average kids I think you would see a difference in attitude and play on the field. When a lot of kids get a chance to play, the first thing they think about is that if they make a mistake they will be back on the bench. The star athletes don’t have to worry about that no matter how many mistakes they make. You can call it anything you like but that’s what happens on Z’s teams. Also, Z likes to be stroked by the kids and the parents. If you don’t stroke him as a player you’re not going to be one of his favorites. If your parents don’t stroke him then you got a double whammy. Just because you don’t stroke him doesn’t mean you don’t deserve an equal chance to play. It shouldn’t be about that. Z just doesn’t relate to most of the kids and that causes a lot of turmoil. He thinks everybody should be the same and think like he does. He likes kids that scream and yell and draw attention to themselves on the field. Since when does that make a good football player? What’s wrong with making a good tackle for a loss, getting up, and running back to the huddle instead of beating your chest and saying look at how great I am? In any case it doesn’t really matter to me since I’ve graduated, but if any of you think it’s going to get a lot better when the freshmen are juniors and seniors don’t be too surprised if they only have mediocre seasons. Z has already picked his favorites and the rest of the team that he needs will resent him. If any of you are parents of players you’ll see what happens at the awards banquets. Z makes up awards so that certain kids can get them. I know some of you are putting this bad season on the players and parents and not the coaching so keep believing that way, but don’t get upset if the bears don’t get a lot better. You’ll get the same results if you keep doing things the same way. Z might have been a good high school football player but he sucks as a coach. Go ahead and rip me Wcalfan, you're obviously one of the strokers.
• eyes r burning

  wcalfan;1291530 wrote:Eyes...listen DUDE...don't get cocky here...the "numbers" is a SMALL part of the problem. You act like you should receive the Nobel Prize with your revelation. Our numbers aren't really that low compared to other schools. Check it out. Could we use more kids? Sure...but again this whole turnaround needs to start in the home. If it doesn't, then you might as well not even try to start to right this ship.

  Dude! numbers are very low when you are counting 30 Freshmen on this years roster, do you think these boys will stock it out when the 6 classes ahead of them didn't. Just a question please don't get defensive. You think I daon't know it's a small school, very few count the freshmen so if we don't what do we have 18, WOW, are you gettting the problem?
• wcalfan

  jb9999;1291536 wrote:After reading everyone’s posts I’m pretty sure none of you ever played for coach Z. I did. So here’s my POV. If you’re on the outside looking in coach Z seems like a great guy. He says all the right things to the parents. He talks about team work and that hard work will get you play time. I was lucky and got a lot of playing time, but there were a lot kids who worked their butts off only to find themselves playing behind younger kids who didn’t work as hard and earn the play time but Z figured they would be big time players when they became upper classmen. My point is that the hard work didn’t pay off and a lot of kids, even the ones that got play time lost respect for Z. How would you feel at your job if your boss told you that if you worked hard and did certain things that you would get promoted or make more money and then he gives someone else the promotion that you worked so hard for. Someone that didn’t yet earn the shot or put in the time? Ya, that may be life but it doesn't change how you would feel about your boss. Another thing is that Z would never yell at the QB for throwing an interception or the RB for fumbling but would rip a lineman for missing a block. On defense some kids would get run over and he would just tell them to get in a better stance to make the tackle but yell at other kids for making a tackle with the wrong body position. He has his favorites like it or not. The majority of the kids on all these small school teams are average athletes, me included. Z is not interested in the average athlete. He has very little patience and doesn’t like coaching the average kid. But if you’re going to win games you need all the kids to play their best. If he got on his star athletes for making mistakes like he does the average kids I think you would see a difference in attitude and play on the field. When a lot of kids get a chance to play, the first thing they think about is that if they make a mistake they will be back on the bench. The star athletes don’t have to worry about that no matter how many mistakes they make. You can call it anything you like but that’s what happens on Z’s teams. Also, Z likes to be stroked by the kids and the parents. If you don’t stroke him as a player you’re not going to be one of his favorites. If your parents don’t stroke him then you got a double whammy. Just because you don’t stroke him doesn’t mean you don’t deserve an equal chance to play. It shouldn’t be about that. Z just doesn’t relate to most of the kids and that causes a lot of turmoil. He thinks everybody should be the same and think like he does. He likes kids that scream and yell and draw attention to themselves on the field. Since when does that make a good football player? What’s wrong with making a good tackle for a loss, getting up, and running back to the huddle instead of beating your chest and saying look at how great I am? In any case it doesn’t really matter to me since I’ve graduated, but if any of you think it’s going to get a lot better when the freshmen are juniors and seniors don’t be too surprised if they only have mediocre seasons. Z has already picked his favorites and the rest of the team that he needs will resent him. If any of you are parents of players you’ll see what happens at the awards banquets. Z makes up awards so that certain kids can get them. I know some of you are putting this bad season on the players and parents and not the coaching so keep believing that way, but don’t get upset if the bears don’t get a lot better. You’ll get the same results if you keep doing things the same way. Z might have been a good high school football player but he sucks as a coach. Go ahead and rip me Wcalfan, you're obviously one of the strokers.

  Not a stroker at all. Here we go with the "favorites" talk. My god...cry me a river. Coach Z sucks and you played a lot for him? .
  
  Coach Z sucks but he was won 2 WCAL titles and been to the playoffs 3 times in his 7-8 years. Man, there are some schools out there that would take that! Oh wait...I forgot...all he had to do is turn and hand the ball to Nofsinger. No, those kids WANTED to work hard and understood their role. Kids/parents don't want "roles" any more. They want to be the "man".
  
  BUT, the best is when you say this..."He likes kids that scream and yell and draw attention to themselves on the field." You really can't be serious here. That is the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of the type of player he was. That makes absolutely no sense whatsover. You are grasping son.....
  
  Save it jb because I ain't buying it
• jb9999

  WCALfan I'm guessing you're going to vote for Obama - you just can't give up on a bad idea.
• jb9999

  WCALfan I'm guessing you're going to vote for Obama - cause you just can't give up on a bad idea.
• wcalfan

  jb9999;1291553 wrote:WCALfan I'm guessing you're going to vote for Obama - you just can't give up on a bad idea.

  Come on son...you aren't old enough to understand politics. Go back to playing your PS3 or Tweet one of your buddies and tell them how much Coach Z had his favorites.
  
  Again, please save it...
• jb9999

  Good luck, you're going to need it. Keep on stroke'n........
• eyes r burning

  wcalfan;1291545 wrote:Not a stroker at all. Here we go with the "favorites" talk. My god...cry me a river. Coach Z sucks and you played a lot for him? .
  
  Coach Z sucks but he was won 2 WCAL titles and been to the playoffs 3 times in his 7-8 years. Man, there are some schools out there that would take that! Oh wait...I forgot...all he had to do is turn and hand the ball to Nofsinger. No, those kids WANTED to work hard and understood their role. Kids/parents don't want "roles" any more. They want to be the "man".
  
  Save it jb because I ain't buying it

  Pretty sure it's "rules", you sure you want me to check you tomorrow. Tomorrow are we going to talk about how much work these boys DIDN'T put in this summer. Really hoping that is the topic on conversation tomorrow.
  
  But giving you the heads up, you better musturd up cause we will talk about that last post, cause it seems allot about what I was talking about was there.. And when you want to talk about the Nofsinger thing, please just let me know, have a little input on that too.
• wcalfan

  eyes r burning;1291566 wrote:Pretty sure it's "rules", you sure you want me to check you tomorrow. Tomorrow are we going to talk about how much work these boys DIDN'T put in this summer. Really hoping that is the topic on conversation tomorrow.
  
  But giving you the heads up, you better musturd up cause we will talk about that last post, cause it seems allot about what I was talking about was there.. And when you want to talk about the Nofsinger thing, please just let me know, have a little input on that too.

  No, I meant "roles"...oh wise one. You have completely lost me here dude...again...you get a little praise and now you know EVERYTHING.
• eyes r burning

  wcalfan;1291545 wrote:Not a stroker at all. Here we go with the "favorites" talk. My god...cry me a river. Coach Z sucks and you played a lot for him? .
  
  Coach Z sucks but he was won 2 WCAL titles and been to the playoffs 3 times in his 7-8 years. Man, there are some schools out there that would take that! Oh wait...I forgot...all he had to do is turn and hand the ball to Nofsinger. No, those kids WANTED to work hard and understood their role. Kids/parents don't want "roles" any more. They want to be the "man".
  
  BUT, the best is when you say this..."He likes kids that scream and yell and draw attention to themselves on the field." You really can't be serious here. That is the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of the type of player he was. That makes absolutely no sense whatsover. You are grasping son.....
  
  Save it jb because I ain't buying it

  So your saying no one is working hard, please WHY? You are saying no one is lifting and practieing like thier coach has ask? why is this and can't really bleive that,begin with a coach that is so in tune with his players.
  
  Just a suggestion here WCALFANNY its time to bale out, your drawing them out BALE and fix it!!
• 1_beast

  

  Interesting dialect
  
  a fly on the wall
• Paul

  

  jb9999;1291555 wrote:WCALfan I'm guessing you're going to vote for Obama - cause you just can't give up on a bad idea.

  Forgive me WCALFAN: This is the best post on here ever. If it's against Obama I'm for it.
• Buckz#1

  eyes r burning;1291538 wrote:Dude! numbers are very low when you are counting 30 Freshmen on this years roster, do you think these boys will stock it out when the 6 classes ahead of them didn't. Just a question please don't get defensive. You think I daon't know it's a small school, very few count the freshmen so if we don't what do we have 18, WOW, are you gettting the problem?

  
  Take a look at Smithville's numbers. They are almost the same as ours.
• wcalfan

  Looks like we have 54 kids on the roster and 26 are 9th graders. So according to my math that would be 28 upperclassmen, almost 10 per class. Is that really that bad? The current 10th graders have 8 guys out and in junior high they had MAYBE 12 healthy kids. Barely enough to have a team. Is that drop off that bad? We have 11 juniors and 9 seniors. I know what you are going to say next Mr. Numbers...The 9th grade numbers will decrease over the next 3 years because Coach Z is such a bully. But that happens in ALL sports. Someone said there are 19 freshman going out for basketball, which will need to be cut down to 15. You think those same 15 will come out as sophomores? NEVER happens.
  
  Looking across the board at other teams rosters. They have pretty much the same amount of kids playing but the most 9th graders I have seen is 19-20. Therefore, that means that those schools would have some classes that have more out than others.
  
  Not to be confusing here but....your NUMBERS argument...doesn't ADD UP!
• iced earth

  jb9999;1291536 wrote:After reading everyone’s posts I’m pretty sure none of you ever played for coach Z. I did. So here’s my POV. If you’re on the outside looking in coach Z seems like a great guy. He says all the right things to the parents. He talks about team work and that hard work will get you play time. I was lucky and got a lot of playing time, but there were a lot kids who worked their butts off only to find themselves playing behind younger kids who didn’t work as hard and earn the play time but Z figured they would be big time players when they became upper classmen. My point is that the hard work didn’t pay off and a lot of kids, even the ones that got play time lost respect for Z. How would you feel at your job if your boss told you that if you worked hard and did certain things that you would get promoted or make more money and then he gives someone else the promotion that you worked so hard for. Someone that didn’t yet earn the shot or put in the time? Ya, that may be life but it doesn't change how you would feel about your boss. Another thing is that Z would never yell at the QB for throwing an interception or the RB for fumbling but would rip a lineman for missing a block. On defense some kids would get run over and he would just tell them to get in a better stance to make the tackle but yell at other kids for making a tackle with the wrong body position. He has his favorites like it or not. The majority of the kids on all these small school teams are average athletes, me included. Z is not interested in the average athlete. He has very little patience and doesn’t like coaching the average kid. But if you’re going to win games you need all the kids to play their best. If he got on his star athletes for making mistakes like he does the average kids I think you would see a difference in attitude and play on the field. When a lot of kids get a chance to play, the first thing they think about is that if they make a mistake they will be back on the bench. The star athletes don’t have to worry about that no matter how many mistakes they make. You can call it anything you like but that’s what happens on Z’s teams. Also, Z likes to be stroked by the kids and the parents. If you don’t stroke him as a player you’re not going to be one of his favorites. If your parents don’t stroke him then you got a double whammy. Just because you don’t stroke him doesn’t mean you don’t deserve an equal chance to play. It shouldn’t be about that. Z just doesn’t relate to most of the kids and that causes a lot of turmoil. He thinks everybody should be the same and think like he does. He likes kids that scream and yell and draw attention to themselves on the field. Since when does that make a good football player? What’s wrong with making a good tackle for a loss, getting up, and running back to the huddle instead of beating your chest and saying look at how great I am? In any case it doesn’t really matter to me since I’ve graduated, but if any of you think it’s going to get a lot better when the freshmen are juniors and seniors don’t be too surprised if they only have mediocre seasons. Z has already picked his favorites and the rest of the team that he needs will resent him. If any of you are parents of players you’ll see what happens at the awards banquets. Z makes up awards so that certain kids can get them. I know some of you are putting this bad season on the players and parents and not the coaching so keep believing that way, but don’t get upset if the bears don’t get a lot better. You’ll get the same results if you keep doing things the same way. Z might have been a good high school football player but he sucks as a coach. Go ahead and rip me Wcalfan, you're obviously one of the strokers.

  
  Very well thought out post from a former player....doesn't even matter if this is true or not....if the kids PERCEIVE this to be true, it is a real problem.
  
  The coach I played for at Waynedale would do everything he could to make the marginal players feel welcome and part of the team. And if they honestly put in the work he would find a role for them by the time they were seniors. More importantly he treated everyone the same way in the hallway. If a kid was the third string punter...he still felt special because he was a Waynedale football player.
• jaco

  Coaches playing favorites? Nooo....
  
  I think that goes on in every program that ever existed. And if you think Jeff Souers didn't have "golden boys", think again. That was probably his specialty. I was there by accident when he went into the Wayne co. Sports Hall of Fame and I literally think he had one former player show up. That's kind of a sad statement.
  
  That still doesn't mean, though, the rest of a team shouldn't play its butt off. If you play football at Waynedale you need to love winning, not your coach.
• JM42

  The kid that open enrolled from another school to play freshman ball was a starter there. Who is he bumping? He is an average player. Just wondering which of the born and raised Waynedale starters he's replacing. That 9th grade team has some depth already. This should be an interesting season. Last 2 years have been interesting as it is....
• Jmar25

  jb9999;1291536 wrote:After reading everyone’s posts I’m pretty sure none of you ever played for coach Z. I did. So here’s my POV. If you’re on the outside looking in coach Z seems like a great guy. He says all the right things to the parents. He talks about team work and that hard work will get you play time. I was lucky and got a lot of playing time, but there were a lot kids who worked their butts off only to find themselves playing behind younger kids who didn’t work as hard and earn the play time but Z figured they would be big time players when they became upper classmen. My point is that the hard work didn’t pay off and a lot of kids, even the ones that got play time lost respect for Z. How would you feel at your job if your boss told you that if you worked hard and did certain things that you would get promoted or make more money and then he gives someone else the promotion that you worked so hard for. Someone that didn’t yet earn the shot or put in the time? Ya, that may be life but it doesn't change how you would feel about your boss. Another thing is that Z would never yell at the QB for throwing an interception or the RB for fumbling but would rip a lineman for missing a block. On defense some kids would get run over and he would just tell them to get in a better stance to make the tackle but yell at other kids for making a tackle with the wrong body position. He has his favorites like it or not. The majority of the kids on all these small school teams are average athletes, me included. Z is not interested in the average athlete. He has very little patience and doesn’t like coaching the average kid. But if you’re going to win games you need all the kids to play their best. If he got on his star athletes for making mistakes like he does the average kids I think you would see a difference in attitude and play on the field. When a lot of kids get a chance to play, the first thing they think about is that if they make a mistake they will be back on the bench. The star athletes don’t have to worry about that no matter how many mistakes they make. You can call it anything you like but that’s what happens on Z’s teams. Also, Z likes to be stroked by the kids and the parents. If you don’t stroke him as a player you’re not going to be one of his favorites. If your parents don’t stroke him then you got a double whammy. Just because you don’t stroke him doesn’t mean you don’t deserve an equal chance to play. It shouldn’t be about that. Z just doesn’t relate to most of the kids and that causes a lot of turmoil. He thinks everybody should be the same and think like he does. He likes kids that scream and yell and draw attention to themselves on the field. Since when does that make a good football player? What’s wrong with making a good tackle for a loss, getting up, and running back to the huddle instead of beating your chest and saying look at how great I am? In any case it doesn’t really matter to me since I’ve graduated, but if any of you think it’s going to get a lot better when the freshmen are juniors and seniors don’t be too surprised if they only have mediocre seasons. Z has already picked his favorites and the rest of the team that he needs will resent him. If any of you are parents of players you’ll see what happens at the awards banquets. Z makes up awards so that certain kids can get them. I know some of you are putting this bad season on the players and parents and not the coaching so keep believing that way, but don’t get upset if the bears don’t get a lot better. You’ll get the same results if you keep doing things the same way. Z might have been a good high school football player but he sucks as a coach. Go ahead and rip me Wcalfan, you're obviously one of the strokers.

  I won't argue with this post. You'll find disgruntled "employees" everywhere. If that is how you feel then I am sorry you feel that way.
  
  You are right there are some life lessons in your story. Hopefully you have become a better person because of it.
  
  I've seen some of Z's workouts and I know they are barn burners. So if the kids show up... and consistently... they do put in the work. I know getting a majority of the kids to show up consistently has been an issue in the spring and summer. So if you were one of those guys then no doubt in my mind you worked hard.
  
  There is one thing I would like to highlight of your story. Is there favoritism... Yes. Always is. One poster stated stated that hall of fame coach Souers showed it. (If you're a Waynedale guy, I hope you at least have an idea who he was. I believe that those things are important to a traditionally strong program and he was before my time) Seder showed it. Z shows it. It happens. Coaches always gravitate towards the players who show the characteristics they desire. Just the way it is. Sometimes it hurts a specific team. Sometimes it helps. My college coaches all did the same and when I was an "assistant" during a year long injury, I learned why it was that way as I stated above. IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME IN BUSINESSES! Even school districts... ect...
  
  The QB's getting coddled... Happens everywhere. Lineman getting chewed out for missing a block... Happens everywhere. It is the nature of the beast. I would hope that he does both to both groups kids.
  
  Lastly as someone else has already brought up and I've already stated. I didn't always see eye to eye with a coach.... I wasn't concerned with it because all I cared about was doing things right so we won on Friday night. I think it would surprise you to know which coaches those were. In the end, I learned from that experience and have tried to better myself from it and put that knowledge to use when I can apply it. Hopefully you do the same young man.
• iced earth

  jaco;1291660 wrote:Coaches playing favorites? Nooo....
  
  I think that goes on in every program that ever existed. And if you think Jeff Souers didn't have "golden boys", think again. That was probably his specialty. I was there by accident when he went into the Wayne co. Sports Hall of Fame and I literally think he had one former player show up. That's kind of a sad statement.
  
  That still doesn't mean, though, the rest of a team shouldn't play its butt off. If you play football at Waynedale you need to love winning, not your coach.

  
  No doubt about it...Jeff had his favorites, every coach does. And we had our share of in fighting and stuff back then. Hell, I didn't like the guy when I was playing for him and I played pretty much every snap for 3 years. But now looking back on it I realize how much he did to make it seem really special to be part of those teams. And I can remember several instances where he went out of his way to help kids who had no chance of ever being impact players.
  
  Kids thinking the coach doesn't like them is nothing new...We had a bad cop, good cop situation back then...Jeff would tear your ass down and let you stew awhile and then Les would take you off to the side and build you back up. I wanted to just quit so many times but for some reason I didn't.
  
  But it didn't take long after high school to realize how valuable those moments were.
  
  Bottom line is the kids have to decide they want to do it for themselves...sometimes winners win in spite of the coach, then later on in life they realize it was because of the coach.
• wcalfan

  iced earth;1291694 wrote:No doubt about it...Jeff had his favorites, every coach does. And we had our share of in fighting and stuff back then. Hell, I didn't like the guy when I was playing for him and I played pretty much every snap for 3 years. But now looking back on it I realize how much he did to make it seem really special to be part of those teams. And I can remember several instances where he went out of his way to help kids who had no chance of ever being impact players.
  
  Kids thinking the coach doesn't like them is nothing new...We had a bad cop, good cop situation back then...Jeff would tear your ass down and let you stew awhile and then Les would take you off to the side and build you back up. I wanted to just quit so many times but for some reason I didn't.
  
  But it didn't take long after high school to realize how valuable those moments were.
  
  Bottom line is the kids have to decide they want to do it for themselves...sometimes winners win in spite of the coach, then later on in life they realize it was because of the coach.

  
  Good post...I have said the same thing on the other forum. Kids used to come together as a group and use any "negative" thoughts they had for their coach as fuel to play even harder. However, that doesn't happen any more. Especially in today's society. As soon as their "feelings" are hurt, mom and dad are on the phone with the coach and/or administration saying how their son is getting picked on or better yet, getting "bullied".
• Jmar25

  wcalfan;1291711 wrote:Good post...I have said the same thing on the other forum. Kids used to come together as a group and use any "negative" thoughts they had for their coach as fuel to play even harder. However, that doesn't happen any more. Especially in today's society. As soon as their "feelings" are hurt, mom and dad are on the phone with the coach and/or administration saying how their son is getting picked on or better yet, getting "bullied".

  I hate this bully thing. Anything done no matter the severity is bullying. Bullying gets blamed for things that aren't really bullying. It's sad.
  
  How about we spend time with kids and teach them something they really need to learn... coping skills. That is something that isn't taught or preached like it was when I was kid. Teach/make kids learn that being mentally tough is one of the most important skills you can learn in your lifetime.
• wcalfan

  Jmar25;1291717 wrote:I hate this bully thing. Anything done no matter the severity is bullying. Bullying gets blamed for things that aren't really bullying. It's sad.
  
  How about we spend time with kids and teach them something they really need to learn... coping skills. That is something that isn't taught or preached like it was when I was kid. Teach/make kids learn that being mentally tough is one of the most important skills you can learn in your lifetime.

  REPS Jmar! I guess I was holding out hope that we would never get to this point in our district but it is here...
• Dr. KnOiTaLL

  

  Jmar25;1291717 wrote:I hate this bully thing. Anything done no matter the severity is bullying. Bullying gets blamed for things that aren't really bullying. It's sad.
  
  How about we spend time with kids and teach them something they really need to learn... coping skills. That is something that isn't taught or preached like it was when I was kid. Teach/make kids learn that being mentally tough is one of the most important skills you can learn in your lifetime.

  Couldn't agree more.