Cleveland Cavaliers 2017-2018 Offseason

• sleeper

  

  friendfromlowry;1858814 wrote:No no. I'm not suggesting they trade him. Just wanted more info because I thought his contract would make it difficult even if they wanted to. Just wanted you to explain more the CBA part.

  He's overpaid for the value he brings to the court. No one disputes that. That makes it harder to trade him but doesn't make him untradeable. He's a good PF, probably the best O-rebounder in the game, but his lack of impact if he's boxed out appropriately makes him a massive liability on the court at times.
  
  The CBA just completely flipped value and metrics on its head because some mediocre talents got max $30+M deals like Conley. It's a weird market and I blame the CBA and the Player's union entirely for not embracing contract smoothing.
• Laley23

  

  I'm a big Love fan, but Cavs are in a year to year basis trying to win right now. Love just doesn't have a truly effective role when playing the Warriors. And thats the only team the Cavs need to be concerned with when building their roster. If you can get PG, you do it. Immediately. Even if it's for 1 year. It's another option on offense who can create. Love couldn't do that.
  
  Kyrie
  JR
  George
  LeBron
  Tristan
  
  I'd have to believe, pending how benches shake out for each team, this starting 5 would be able to get it done.
• sleeper

  

  Automatik;1858823 wrote:No, he sucks. He's not even average. That's on LeBron for clamoring to get his boy paid.

  Disagree. He's above average but he did get paid more than he is worth on the court.
  
  TT helped us win the East because of his rebounding and energy but it's quite telling that he's ineffective against the Warriors. I now consider him expendable and I didn't feel that way until we lost Game 5. Everyone on the team is expendable except for KI and LBJ at this point.
• Laley23

  

  Crimson streak;1858824 wrote:If it's
  LA: love and shump
  
  Cavs: butler
  
  Chicago: #2 pick.
  
  To me that makes a lot of sense for everyone involved. The lakers speed up there rebuild and still have the space to go get Paul George next season that could make them a contender.
  
  
  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  I doubt they do that. If they don't like Ball, why not take Tatum? Jackson? Etc...That's a better neclues than a 29 year old Love.
• sleeper

  

  Laley23;1858831 wrote:I'm a big Love fan, but Cavs are in a year to year basis trying to win right now. Love just doesn't have a truly effective role when playing the Warriors. And thats the only team the Cavs need to be concerned with when building their roster. If you can get PG, you do it. Immediately. Even if it's for 1 year. It's another option on offense who can create. Love couldn't do that.
  
  Kyrie
  JR
  George
  LeBron
  Tristan
  
  I'd have to believe, pending how benches shake out for each team, this starting 5 would be able to get it done.

  You and I are on the same page here. Paul George is the weapon we need against GSW. Get it done.
• like_that

  

  sleeper;1858781 wrote:Sign David Griffin is #1 priority.
  
  #2, Call Indiana and see what it would take to get Paul George.
  
  #3, put anyone not named KI/LBJ on the market particularly Shumpert.
  
  #4, get rid of James Jones. Why? Because dude is pure shit, sign him as a coach if you want him there just for mentorship.

  It's definitely time for Jones to go. I think these guys have aged enough the past 3 seasons to survive without Jones' mentorship as a player. I'd be more than happy to have Jones on as a coach. Cavs need to stop with having dead weight on the team.
  

  Commander of Awesome;1858805 wrote:If Melo is bought out, I'd bet he winds up in Cleveland.

  Agreed, same with Wade. Big if though. It's more likely that Wade gets bought out than Melo imo.
  

  friendfromlowry;1858814 wrote:No no. I'm not suggesting they trade him. Just wanted more info because I thought his contract would make it difficult even if they wanted to. Just wanted you to explain more the CBA part.

  Basically TT's contract looked ridiculous at the time until the cap went up. Now his contract is a great value compared to the contracts that a lot of trash players received last offseason and will receive this off season. Same concept with Kyrie's current deal, it's a great value.

  Automatik;1858823 wrote:No, he sucks. He's not even average. That's on LeBron for clamoring to get his boy paid.

  He had a bad series, but I wouldn't go far enough to say he is not even average. That is a hot take. He played pretty well up until the finals, and people forget that he was playing with an injured thumb. He does the little things that apparently the rest of the role players aren't willing to do and he is dependable. He started 447 games prior to his thumb injury.
• Laley23

  

  sleeper;1858834 wrote:You and I are on the same page here. Paul George is the weapon we need against GSW. Get it done.

  Yep. Brings better defense (and better switch options on defense). And like I said, you now have 3 guys who can really go 1-1 and create for themselves and others. You lose a bit rebounding, but that's not a huge concern vs warriors. You add a much better passer and a slightly better shooter. Plus, overall, just a better playmaker at both ends.
• like_that

  

  All the talk about PG or Butler is a pipe dream btw. There has been no indication that this will even come close to happening. Lebron and co will have to pull some behind the scenes illegal recruiting to pull that shit off.
  
  Also, if Melo got bought out and wanted to come to Cleveland you all are out of your mind if you wouldn't take Melo for a cheap deal. That's a no brainer.
• Laley23

  

  like_that;1858838 wrote:All the talk about PG or Butler is a pipe dream btw. There has been no indication that this will even come close to happening. Lebron and co will have to pull some behind the scenes illegal recruiting to pull that shit off.
  
  Also, if Melo got bought out and wanted to come to Cleveland you all are out of your mind if you wouldn't take Melo for a cheap deal. That's a no brainer.

  I think it's a slight pipe dream. Indy will listen to offers. They either take a deal for Love/whoever/whatever, or hope PG makes all NBA and wants the money to stay with them.
• like_that

  

  Laley23;1858840 wrote:I think it's a slight pipe dream. Indy will listen to offers. They either take a deal for Love/whoever/whatever, or hope PG makes all NBA and wants the money to stay with them.

  If Boston wants him, they can have him imo. We will see if Boston is willing to drain their assets after seeing the Warriors handle the Cavs the way they did. I think Boston would be wise to wait it out.
  
  I just don't see how the Cavs could get PG, unless PG goes to the front office and says "I am leaving after this upcoming season, so trade me to Cleveland or get nothing out of me."
• BR1986FB

  Commander of Awesome;1858805 wrote:If Melo is bought out, I'd bet he winds up in Cleveland.

  Agreed and I'd have no issue with him, as long as he was the 4th piece.
• BR1986FB

  Automatik;1858823 wrote:No, he sucks. He's not even average. That's on LeBron for clamoring to get his boy paid.

  Same with JR. Same agent, both overpaid.
• BR1986FB

  like_that;1858838 wrote:All the talk about PG or Butler is a pipe dream btw. There has been no indication that this will even come close to happening. Lebron and co will have to pull some behind the scenes illegal recruiting to pull that shit off.
  
  Also, if Melo got bought out and wanted to come to Cleveland you all are out of your mind if you wouldn't take Melo for a cheap deal. That's a no brainer.

  Agree on both points. The PG talk is a pipe dream.
• friendfromlowry

  like_that;1858835 wrote:It's definitely time for Jones to go. I think these guys have aged enough the past 3 seasons to survive without Jones' mentorship as a player. I'd be more than happy to have Jones on as a coach. Cavs need to stop with having dead weight on the team.

  Who does he even mentor? The young guys don't see the court enough to need mentoring. JR is an asshat half the time so he's not mentoring him.
• wildcats20

  

  LOL the Lakers aren't taking Kevin Love and Iman Shumpert and giving away the 2nd pick. Just lol.
  
  The Lakers aren't in a win-now mindset. If they were, they would have traded the farm for PG at the deadline.
• Laley23

  

  like_that;1858841 wrote:If Boston wants him, they can have him imo. We will see if Boston is willing to drain their assets after seeing the Warriors handle the Cavs the way they did. I think Boston would be wise to wait it out.
  
  I just don't see how the Cavs could get PG, unless PG goes to the front office and says "I am leaving after this upcoming season, so trade me to Cleveland or get nothing out of me."

  But he has basically said that. Bird stepped down with many people speculating cause he doesn't want to do another rebuild. Pacers reportedly shopped him at deadline. I mean, I don't see how PG isn't available. It's just a matter of what direction Pacers are trying to go. If they don't think he will resign, Pacers would be dumb to not get something out of him.
• like_that

  

  friendfromlowry;1858851 wrote:Who does he even mentor? The young guys don't see the court enough to need mentoring. JR is an asshat half the time so he's not mentoring him.

  I recall last year Kevin Love making a long post on instagram a few weeks after the title saying how much Jones meant to him as a mentor.
• Commander of Awesome

  

  wildcats20;1858853 wrote:LOL the Lakers aren't taking Kevin Love and Iman Shumpert and giving away the 2nd pick. Just lol.
  
  The Lakers aren't in a win-now mindset. If they were, they would have traded the farm for PG at the deadline.

  Agreed, legit lol'd at that trade scenario.
• sleeper

  

  Crimson streak;1858824 wrote:If it's
  LA: love and shump
  
  Cavs: butler
  
  Chicago: #2 pick.
  
  To me that makes a lot of sense for everyone involved. The lakers speed up there rebuild and still have the space to go get Paul George next season that could make them a contender.
  
  
  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  This trade makes no sense for LA. There is no way they would do this deal.
• BR1986FB

  Good read on Lebron's legacy. What jumped out at me, which I didn't know, was the quote below the link....
  
  http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19625907/2017-nba-finals-lebron-james-legacy-intact-much-michael-jordans
  
  We constantly hear about Jordan being a spotless 6-0 in the Finals, but we don't hear that Jordan was 6-7 in getting to the Finals in his 13 postseasons, while James is now 8-4 in his 12 postseasons.
• SportsAndLady

  

  TT is not average? Come the fuck on. He's not an average SCORER. But he's one of the best rebounders in the NBA especially at the offensive end. He's incredibly valuable. His contract was a little much, but imo he's played well enough to warrant the contract he got.
  
  I could see PG coming to Cleveland in a trade. Like Laley said, I don't think it's that much of a pipedream that PG wants to be on a contender and asks Indiana to trade him to Cleveland.
  
  I also don't think the cavs have to do anything with their big 3. I think lebron/Kyrie/love is good enough to beat GS, as long as griffin improves the bench.
• friendfromlowry

  BR1986FB;1858881 wrote:Good read on Lebron's legacy. What jumped out at me, which I didn't know, was the quote below the link....
  
  http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19625907/2017-nba-finals-lebron-james-legacy-intact-much-michael-jordans
  
  We constantly hear about Jordan being a spotless 6-0 in the Finals, but we don't hear that Jordan was 6-7 in getting to the Finals in his 13 postseasons, while James is now 8-4 in his 12 postseasons.

  I know you're the messenger here but god damn I'm so sick of the Lebron vs Jordan comparisons. They're both going to be top five players. Who cares who did what.
  

  SportsAndLady;1858904 wrote:I also don't think the cavs have to do anything with their big 3. I think lebron/Kyrie/love is good enough to beat GS, as long as griffin improves the bench.

  I too felt confident after watching them get blown out in games one and two. Or watching Lebron/Kyie play out of their minds to give them a chance. Or Love not show up to game five. Yes, let's leave things as they are.
• sportswizuhrd

  Crimson streak;1858804 wrote:I could see a 3 way trade type deal involving either the lakers or celtics. With love and shump going to Boston or LA. The cavs getting George or butler and the 1 or 2 pick going to Indy or Chicago. Honestly it makes a lot of sense for all 3 teams
  
  
  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  Boston would never do a 3 way deal with Cleveland where the Cavs land a star player and why would they? Why would they want to help out the team they are gunning for?
  
  The Lakers would attach Deng or Mozgov with that #2 pick. I could see Indy/Chicago saying hell no for that reason. I would think the Lakers would want Butler or George in a trade and not help anyone get one of those two. What would the selling point for the FA's in the '18 class to come to LAL? Kevin Love, Clarkson, Russell and Randle?
• SportsAndLady

  

  friendfromlowry;1858910m wrote:
  
  
  I too felt confident after watching them get blown out in games one and two. Or watching Lebron/Kyie play out of their minds to give them a chance. Or Love not show up to game five. Yes, let's leave things as they are.

  Cavs don't blow a 6 pt lead at home in the final 2 min and we're getting ready to play a game 6 at home. Then a winner take all game 7.
  
  Let's not pretend like GS is completely unbeatable. They're obviously great, but the cavs are pretty damn good too. With an improved bench, they could definitely beat GS.
• BR1986FB

  I'm starting to agree that a (drastically, not tweaked) bench will give the Cavs a decent chance against GSW next year.
  
  Kerr's system is pretty much "plug & play" where they don't really miss a beat when their reserves come in. It helps that they usually have 2 of their 4 guys on the floor at all times. The Cavs don't have this and they really don't have a system.
  
  A major area of need, to me, is someone who can give quality minutes when Lebron takes a breather....Hell, just a bench that can weather the storm until the starters return....keep a lead or deficit intact instead of turning a 3 point lead into a 14 point deficit.