2012 Cleveland Browns thread: AKA Pat Shurmur Memorial thread
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royal_k
Keeping Skrine over Patterson is very questionable. I wonder if Heckert was behind this. -
Rotinaj
As long as they don't release our 79 year old great grandpa of a QB ill be fine. Everyone else is on the chopping block!!! -
shook_17
wow did not see the release of patterson coming at all. interesting. -
shook_17
[INDENT][INDENT][INDENT]************ Jones ‏ @ CONCEDEAs you know Patterson got cut. Whispers that 11 might be next. Nothing confirmed. # Browns
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Commander of Awesome
LOL MoMass needed to be cut 2 seasons ago. -
IggyPride00
Over on the OBR it is being speculated that Weeden is the one who called the Benjamin play that scored a TD.
When Benjamin comes on you can see Weeden give him the play, and then he looks over like he's confused at the sideline.
After the TD catch when they're going off the field it looks like Whipple is yelling at Weeden, as that doesn't look like a happy response (no high five or slap on the back) as in you did a good job.
We know he is not allowed to audible (which is totally ridiculous and puts us way behind the curve) but if the staff was laying into him for either ignoring their play or ad-libbing his own it just shows how they are more interested in control than winning games.
Get these bums out of here as they have done nothing but hamstring their players and put them in poor positions the entire time they have been here.
Here is a video someone put up of the play in question.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2gxp966075ulvbn/brokenplay.mp4
Someone made a good point. The Skins were playing press coverage on a guy running a 4.3 40 because the entire stadium knew another 5 yard pass was coming on 3rd down. Weeden correctly figured he would be open in that case, and threw long even though that clearly was not the call.
Maybe in Denver he can lose his helmet like that a little more often and miss the Shurmur playcall. Amazing what can happen when you do something the other side isn't expecting. -
Mulva
Unless there's another 4.3 guy I'm not aware of, someone made a terrible point because the corner on Benjamin was 8-9 yards off of the line. That isn't press coverage at all.IggyPride00;1345987 wrote:Someone made a good point. The Skins were playing press coverage on a guy running a 4.3 40 because the entire stadium knew another 5 yard pass was coming on 3rd down. -
IggyPride00
I honestly didn't even check for accuracy, I just fast forwarded to see if a coach was really yelling at Weeden for a TD pass.Mulva;1346018 wrote:Unless there's another 4.3 guy I'm not aware of, someone made a terrible point because the corner on Benjamin was 8-9 yards off of the line. That isn't press coverage at all.
DB was right on the first down line, so about 5 yards off the LOS. Definitely not press coverage, but for as quick as Benjamin got bye him clearly wasn't planning on him just running deep. -
SportsAndLady
If I told you there was bricks of gold underneath your feet, you'd probably start digging.IggyPride00;1346023 wrote:I honestly didn't even check for accuracy
You're making yourself look pretty embarrassing by continuing to cover for Weeden...all you have to do is admit he probably isn't as good as you thought, and be unbiasedly want the franchise to go a different route at QB.
Sorry iggy, but Weeden is a bust. -
Commander of Awesome
While I don't agree with you on Weeden, I do agree that many people are grasping for straws here on why we suck on offense. Oh Whipple yelled at Weeden, Must be PISSED at him!!! (not yelling like most coaches do) when they tell a QB good job. Glad to know Iggy and rest of OBR (LOL bout as good as Cleveland Radio, they're legit having Bring McCoy in threads....like we don't know what that fucking guy can do after 25 starts)SMHSportsAndLady;1346035 wrote:If I told you there was bricks of gold underneath your feet, you'd probably start digging.
You're making yourself look pretty embarrassing by continuing to cover for Weeden...all you have to do is admit he probably isn't as good as you thought, and be unbiasedly want the franchise to go a different route at QB.
Sorry iggy, but Weeden is a bust. -
IggyPride00
I want to see him with a competent head coach for a year before cutting bait.SportsAndLady;1346035 wrote:If I told you there was bricks of gold underneath your feet, you'd probably start digging.
You're making yourself look pretty embarrassing by continuing to cover for Weeden...all you have to do is admit he probably isn't as good as you thought, and be unbiasedly want the franchise to go a different route at QB.
Sorry iggy, but Weeden is a bust.
Tony Grossi put up this chart about how with Pat Shurmur led offenses the names change, but the results never do.
Before I go out and waste another first round pick on a QB who isn't anywhere near the Luck/RGIII level, I want to see if the offense looks better without Shurmur. If Weeden looks like crap still, then he is a total bust and it is time to move on.
Richardson has looked like crap most of the season, should we get rid of him as well? By your logic it is embarrassing to think he would look better with a real offense as well.
I took the liberty of adding in the 2009 stats so it encompasses the 4 years of Shurmur led offenses. The similarities are frightening, and should be a caution to anyone who thinks the problem is all Weeden. The system is bad, and it is doing nothing to make anyone look better.
Too much consistency of the numbers no matter who is under center to not lead a rational person to wonder if maybe it isn't all the players fault.
Name Year Games Comp. Att. Pct. Yards Y/attempt TD INT Rating Total Offense Rank (out of 32)
Combine 2009 16 312 543 57.5 2,970 5.5 12 21 64.0 29
Bradford 2010 16 354 590 60.0 3,512 5.95 18 15 76.5 26
McCoy 2011 13 265 463 57.2 2,733 5.90 14 11 74.6 29
Weeden 2012 14 285 498 57.2 3,281 6.60 14 17 72.4 25 -
IggyPride00
I recommend everyone read Grossi's most recent column regarding the Browns future management.
He basically lays out that the way Banner has drawn up the new org charts that Lombardi is the only person that fits realistically, and it is almost as if it was done with him in mind. Having been out of the league for 5 years (and really wanting to get back in), he will be fine with carrying Banner's water.
Sounds like a hard push is going to be made for Josh McDaniels, as basically they are looking for a coach that will genuflect before Banner/Lombardi and not want any real power or say over personnel.
I don't know how Haslam got hooked up with Banner, but the more I hear and read it seems like he has a major Napolean complex and really wants to have a hand in football decisions in which he has no business. He is a numbers guy, but is looking to expand his portfolio.
I am concerned about this GM issue big time. Since Banner has emasculated it and turned it into a glorified player personnel job under his new org chart it will severely limit the field of good candidates that would come here. Every GM wants final say over personnel, but from what we keep seeing that won't happen under Banner. Thus we are left with lower level guys that would be looking at a job a rung below a GM, and that is tough to attract top talent too.
http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=9761
The Lombardi Factor: Banner has diagramed an organization chart that calls for football operations to report to him. That means Heckert’s position will be replaced by a glorified player personnel director who will work closely with Banner. He may win some battles but ultimately he will have no real authority to establish a vision, pick players or make trades. Banner will set the agenda.
So who would accept these restrictions? Someone who has been out of the league for five years – Mike Lombardi. -
SportsAndLady
IggyPride00;1346150 wrote:I want to see him with a competent head coach for a year before cutting bait.
Tony Grossi put up this chart about how with Pat Shurmur led offenses the names change, but the results never do.
Before I go out and waste another first round pick on a QB who isn't anywhere near the Luck/RGIII level, I want to see if the offense looks better without Shurmur. If Weeden looks like crap still, then he is a total bust and it is time to move on.
Richardson has looked like crap most of the season, should we get rid of him as well? By your logic it is embarrassing to think he would look better with a real offense as well.
I took the liberty of adding in the 2009 stats so it encompasses the 4 years of Shurmur led offenses. The similarities are frightening, and should be a caution to anyone who thinks the problem is all Weeden. The system is bad, and it is doing nothing to make anyone look better.
Too much consistency of the numbers no matter who is under center to not lead a rational person to wonder if maybe it isn't all the players fault.
Name Year Games Comp. Att. Pct. Yards Y/attempt TD INT Rating Total Offense Rank (out of 32)
Combine 2009 16 312 543 57.5 2,970 5.5 12 21 64.0 29
Bradford 2010 16 354 590 60.0 3,512 5.95 18 15 76.5 26
McCoy 2011 13 265 463 57.2 2,733 5.90 14 11 74.6 29
Weeden 2012 14 285 498 57.2 3,281 6.60 14 17 72.4 25
Jesus Christ..I know you were once a press guy...but for once in your life will you please just open your fucking eyes and watch Weeden for yourself, throwing out all bias, and tell me that he has any sort of potential to be a good QB.IggyPride00;1346166 wrote:I recommend everyone read Grossi's most recent column regarding the Browns future management.
He basically lays out that the way Banner has drawn up the new org charts that Lombardi is the only person that fits realistically, and it is almost as if it was done with him in mind. Having been out of the league for 5 years (and really wanting to get back in), he will be fine with carrying Banner's water.
Sounds like a hard push is going to be made for Josh McDaniels, as basically they are looking for a coach that will genuflect before Banner/Lombardi and not want any real power or say over personnel.
I don't know how Haslam got hooked up with Banner, but the more I hear and read it seems like he has a major Napolean complex and really wants to have a hand in football decisions in which he has no business. He is a numbers guy, but is looking to expand his portfolio.
I am concerned about this GM issue big time. Since Banner has emasculated it and turned it into a glorified player personnel job under his new org chart it will severely limit the field of good candidates that would come here. Every GM wants final say over personnel, but from what we keep seeing that won't happen under Banner. Thus we are left with lower level guys that would be looking at a job a rung below a GM, and that is tough to attract top talent too.
http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=9761
I swear to god every time we ask you of your opinion it's "Well Tony Grossi said this" or "well NFL analyst Tony Dungy said that."
I know Shurmur sucks, I know he doesn't put Weeden in a good position...but Weeden game after game CONSTANTLY overthrows his receivers, CONSTANTLY gets his throws batted back to him, and CONSTANTLY makes poor decisions with the football leading to numerous turnovers in costly situations.
Just because Peyton Manning didn't have a good rookie year, doesn't mean that Weeden may still be like Peyton Manning (not talent; talking about having a poor rookie season then turning it on).
Richardson, on the other hand, is the true example of a rookie in the NFL. You can see the potential in Richardson. You can also see how the coaches aren't utilizing him properly. The guy is crazy good outside the tackles, yet we dive him up the middle. And we only give it to him 10-15 times a game.
Just stop pointing to what others are saying, and actually give your own damn opinion of him as a QB. -
SportsAndLady
Mike Greenberg on air just now "I wanted the Jets to lose to Arizona; I wanted the Jets to lose to Tennessee. This is what I wanted. I don't want this organization thinking they're 'close.'"
Please someone find the coward BR, so he can get his opinion on this. I said I want the Browns to lose (when I knew they wouldn't be better than 8-8, of course) so they can better themselves in the draft, and he called out my fanhood.
Hopefully he's just on vacation, and not just hiding his face on here because he knows how wrong he has been. -
like_that
I saw him post on the serious business forum the other day, not too sure why he hasn't posted on the Browns thread lately.SportsAndLady;1346228 wrote:Mike Greenberg on air just now "I wanted the Jets to lose to Arizona; I wanted the Jets to lose to Tennessee. This is what I wanted. I don't want this organization thinking they're 'close.'"
Please someone find the coward BR, so he can get his opinion on this. I said I want the Browns to lose (when I knew they wouldn't be better than 8-8, of course) so they can better themselves in the draft, and he called out my fanhood.
Hopefully he's just on vacation, and not just hiding his face on here because he knows how wrong he has been. -
Mulva
Haha did anyone actually take a look at the grossi article? One source says they're prepared to offer saban a 10 year, 100 million contract.
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SportsAndLady
SMH at iggyMulva;1346255 wrote:Haha did anyone actually take a look at the grossi article? One source says they're prepared to offer saban a 10 year, 100 million contract. -
Commander of Awesome
lol fuck no, I have better ways to waste time than read the sci fi that idiot produces. It'd be an interesting to see who spews more bullshit on their keyboard, Grossi or Trolldo.Mulva;1346255 wrote:Haha did anyone actually take a look at the grossi article? -
Speedofsand
The factory of sadness is closed for the season isn't it? -
like_that
Were your parents by any chance a pile of shit? Because you sure do nothing but act like one.Speedofsand;1346367 wrote:The factory of sadness is closed for the season isn't it? -
wes_mantooth
Speedofsand;1346367 wrote:The factory of sadness is closed for the season isn't it?
LOL -
Speedofsand
like_that;1346409 wrote:Were your parents by any chance a pile of ****? Because you sure do nothing but act like one.
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wes_mantooth
Agreed...Grossi is the worst.Commander of Awesome;1346332 wrote:lol fuck no, I have better ways to waste time than read the sci fi that idiot produces. It'd be an interesting to see who spews more bullshit on their keyboard, Grossi or Trolldo.
I am not a Bruce Hooley fan, but I did find his argument interesting....if everyone thinks that Pat is the main problem and holding back development...how can we fairly judge Brandon Weeden? I actually get this point...but to me, he just doesn't pass the eye test.