Cleveland Browns 2011 Super Awesome In-Season Thread

• like_that

  

  OQB;1004256 wrote:We would be the team to trade out of that pick to get more picks.....

  If the price is right, then why not? Chances are if a team needs a QB, they are probably shitty to begin with, so the Browns wouldn't fall far down the draft if they give that pick up. I would be down with this if they get another first rounder again. This team has many needs, I'd take all the picks I can get.
• BR1986FB

  like_that;1004309 wrote:If the price is right, then why not? Chances are if a team needs a QB, they are probably shitty to begin with, so the Browns wouldn't fall far down the draft if they give that pick up. I would be down with this if they get another first rounder again. This team has many needs, I'd take all the picks I can get.

  I could see Heckert doing this ala Belichick on a yearly basis where the Browns have two 1st rounders (and maybe two 2nd's) on a yearly basis. Helluva way to build up your talent level quickly. Just keep one of the firsts to gain another 2nd (and possibly more) every year by trading down (but not TOO far down).
• like_that

  

  BR1986FB;1004327 wrote:I could see Heckert doing this ala Belichick on a yearly basis where the Browns have two 1st rounders (and maybe two 2nd's) on a yearly basis. Helluva way to build up your talent level quickly. Just keep one of the firsts to gain another 2nd (and possibly more) every year by trading down (but not TOO far down).

  I'd be perfectly fine with it for now with the level of talent this team has. Once the Browns start winning and their first rd pick is in the middle or toward the end, then I will not be for it. In the meantime though, trade rape any team that is willing to be raped.
• OQB

  

  found this piece of an article about the Packer's GM....
  

  Undrafted players: The Packers have 16 on their roster -- Jarrett Bush, Tom Crabtree, Evan Dietrich-Smith, Ray Dominguez, Rob Francois, Brett Goode, Ryan Grant, John Kuhn, Jamari Lattimore, Tim Masthay, Brandon Saine, Sam Shields, Shaky Smithson, Vic So'oto, Tramon Williams and Frank Zombo. Football is a team sport, and for team sports, little-known role players are as important as great players. Unlike highly drafted crybabies who think the rules don't apply to them -- Exhibit A, the Detroit Lions -- undrafted players listen to the coaches and give you what they've got.
  • Home-grown: Since Ted Thompson took over as general manager in 2005, he has rarely traded away draft choices. All NFL general managers say they want to build through the draft, then many blink and give up picks. Thompson never blinks, holding his picks and trading for others. In Thompson's seven drafts, he has selected an average of nine players per draft, versus seven that the league hands each club. He has had 17 first- or second-round choices in that period, versus the 14 the league hands out. And the Packers scout the sixth and seventh rounds as intently as the first. Many Green Bay players were late choices, selected by a point in the draft where many teams were just winging it.

• OQB

  

  I agree, I think Heckert is the best of the 3 (Holmgren, Shurmur) and knows how to draft.....we have seen that the past 2 drafts. McCoy was HOLMGREN's pick, so I always wondered who Heckert would've drafted instead. That's something we will never know though.
  
  I am all for getting more high picks in the draft, as long as you are addressing as many needs as you can with those picks.
• BR1986FB

  like_that;1004330 wrote:In the meantime though, trade rape any team that is willing to be raped.

  Don't sugarcoat it. You CAN say "Falcons." :laugh:
• dazedconfused

  

  BR1986FB;1004343 wrote:Don't sugarcoat it. You CAN say "Falcons." :laugh:

  we got a great haul from the falcons but i don't know if id trade down that low again
• Y-Town Steelhound

  

  Don't agree with Cribbs comments at all for these reasons:
  
  
  
  -Should've been a safety from day 1 in the league. Has speed and lateral quickness, can tackle, is great going after balls in the air. I think he could've had a lot of success on defense. Too late now.
  
  -If you're going to put him on offense, don't make him an effing route running receiver. Wild-cat, screens, and runs is all he should have ever been doing. With that said he's still one of the best receivers on this piss poor offensive roster.
  
  -Guy makes an impact on special teams. Other than being one of the greatest returners in the history of the game he is always in on plays during punts and kickoffs. We saw what happened against Oakland when he's not on the field. Hasn't done anything in 2 years? Show me where you've seen him ever have a seam on a kick return the last 2 years. Browns got rid of guys like costanzo and ventrone who were special teams beasts. The one time he had a seam, he almost took it to the house before Greg Little made the tackle. Call me old-fashioned and maybe its because I've grown up closely watching Tressel era YSU/OSU, but I believe there are THREE phases to the game and they are EQUALLY IMPORTANT. Just because you can't quantify Cribbs' effect on special teams with stats doesn't mean you can't clearly see it on film.
  
  -Sorry if I'm reluctant to part ways with a guy that loves playing for the Browns, plays his ass off on every play despite multiple coaching staffs putting him in horrible positions, and actually seems like he gives a damn when the team loses. You can go ahead and get rid of a guy like that, and many of you (BR) would be hypocrites.
• BR1986FB

  dazedconfused;1004348 wrote:we got a great haul from the falcons but i don't know if id trade down that low again

  I agree but Cleveland DEFINITELY got the better of that deal. Julio Jones is "ok" but he's not an AJ Green AND he's already showing one of the knocks (injury prone) he had coming out.
• BR1986FB

  Y-Town Steelhound;1004365 wrote:Don't agree with Cribbs comments at all for these reasons:
  
  
  
  -Should've been a safety from day 1 in the league. Has speed and lateral quickness, can tackle, is great going after balls in the air. I think he could've had a lot of success on defense. Too late now.
  
  -If you're going to put him on offense, don't make him an effing route running receiver. Wild-cat, screens, and runs is all he should have ever been doing. With that said he's still one of the best receivers on this piss poor offensive roster.
  
  -Guy makes an impact on special teams. Other than being one of the greatest returners in the history of the game he is always in on plays during punts and kickoffs. We saw what happened against Oakland when he's not on the field. Hasn't done anything in 2 years? Show me where you've seen him ever have a seam on a kick return the last 2 years. Browns got rid of guys like costanzo and ventrone who were special teams beasts. The one time he had a seam, he almost took it to the house before Greg Little made the tackle. Call me old-fashioned and maybe its because I've grown up closely watching Tressel era YSU/OSU, but I believe there are THREE phases to the game and they are EQUALLY IMPORTANT. Just because you can't quantify Cribbs' effect on special teams with stats doesn't mean you can't clearly see it on film.
  
  -Sorry if I'm reluctant to part ways with a guy that loves playing for the Browns, plays his ass off on every play despite multiple coaching staffs putting him in horrible positions, and actually seems like he gives a damn when the team loses. You can go ahead and get rid of a guy like that, and many of you (BR) would be hypocrites.

  His comments smack of "the rest of you guys suck." He may have "heart" but he's also been one of THE most if not THE most self serving players on this team since the "Pay Da Man" bullshit. Money WELL spent...:rolleyes:
• OQB

  

  He also runs right towards the piles when returning kicks, you rarely see him try to make a move or break a tackle. He just isn't the same player imo...
• BR1986FB

  Not to mention that he has no "burst" anymore and looks like he's packed on about 30 lbs. That weight may help with his durability but it's definitely hindered his return performance.
• Y-Town Steelhound

  

  The "Pay da Man" thing was started more by the fans than Cribbs. Did Cribbs promote it? Sure he did, who wouldn't considering it helped him get some more money but the fans of Cleveland were the ones sending pizza boxes to the Browns offices.
  
  He was never a guy that had a huge "burst" imo. He is a great returner because he sees the seams and breaks through arm tackles with fury. He still looks like he has most of his lateral quickness but lets not forget he ain't as young as he used to be and his ankles/legs have taken some beatings over the years. Again, the point you continue to ignore is that the Browns have placed less and less emphasis on special teams in the last few years. The special teams this season has been a joke and the new kickoff rule hasn't helped. But defenders shouldn't be meeting Cribbs at the 15 if your blocking is good.
  
  Also why I agree his comments about there being a talent gap should've stayed in house, the guy has a freaking point. Look at the linebackers on the Ravens and Steelers compared at the Browns. Look at the QB and WR positions compared with the Browns. Not so much with the starters but when you look at the DEPTH there is a HUGE talent gap there.
  
  That comment seemed out of frustration and I for one can't blame him. Guy has been here for years and has busted his ass for this organization and multiple coaches with nothing to show for it. God forbid a player actually cares about the team winning and not just collecting his paycheck. He has single handedly won (Chiefs game in 09) and kept the Browns in (Insane return from 1-yard line against Steelers in 07) many games over his career. He is the LAST guy I blame for this mess.
  
  I'll defend guys like Josh Cribbs all day, he's one of the true football players the Browns have had since they've returned.
• BR1986FB

  He used every media outlet available to bitch & moan about "getting paid."
  
  I agree that he may have a point but he shouldn't air it public.
• Y-Town Steelhound

  

  BR1986FB;1004427 wrote:He used every media outlet available to bitch & moan about "getting paid."
  
  I agree that he may have a point but he shouldn't air it public.

  
  How many games did he sit out? How much of training camp did he hold out? How did it affect his play on the field? He'd be getting paid more right now if the organization hadn't been idiots and made him a safety/returner/specialist from the get go. Had Cribbs started as a safety he'd be FAR better than either Adams (who I also think plays his hardest) or Young (who I think showboats too much for nothing).
  
  
  I also had/have no issues with Cribbs wanting to be paid more. He was the only Browns player at the time that outperformed his current contract. Guy has worked his ass of his entire career from being an undrafted college quarterback at a MAC school to one of the (if not the) greatest NFL kick returner of all time and one of the (if not the) best overall special teams players in the league. You act like he was a spoiled 1st round pick that had proved nothing and wouldn't play unless he was paid (cough Brady Quinn). Cribbs proved himself before he asked for a new contract and was promised a new deal by Savage. When regimes changed he wanted to make sure this was still true and the fans backed him for a reason.
  
  Seriously your argument is like bitching at Rudy for being self-serving about wanting more playing time.
• DeyDurkie5

  

  cribbs is the man.
• Footwedge

  BR1986FB;1003815 wrote:Still need a QB. Checkdown Charlie isn't going to cut it.

  You don't know that. You put this pile of dung we call wide receivers, and you have check down Drew and check down Ben, and check down Brady for that matter too.
  
  Did you watch the Jags/Chargers game last night? Check down Philip was dropping bombs all over the place. Why? Because his 2 wideouts were playing for the first time in over a month....that's why.
  
  How many Vincent Jacksons...or Antonio Gateses have laced up the shoes here in Cleveland since 99? Nobody...that's how many. A big fat zilcho.
  
  BR....you're a great Browns fan...and an asset to this site. But for God's sake, quit bitchin about every frocking q'back this team has ever had. Hell, Peyton couldn't put 20 points on the board with this cast...and you know it.
• BR1986FB

  Footwedge;1004698 wrote:You don't know that. You put this pile of dung we call wide receivers, and you have check down Drew and check down Ben, and check down Brady for that matter too.
  
  Did you watch the Jags/Chargers game last night? Check down Philip was dropping bombs all over the place. Why? Because his 2 wideouts were playing for the first time in over a month....that's why.
  
  How many Vincent Jacksons...or Antonio Gateses have laced up the shoes here in Cleveland since 99? Nobody...that's how many. A big fat zilcho.
  
  BR....you're a great Browns fan...and an asset to this site. But for God's sake, quit bitchin about every frocking q'back this team has ever had. Hell, Peyton couldn't put 20 points on the board with this cast...and you know it.

  You're REALLY going to compare McCoy to Philip Rivers? You're not going to see McCoy "dropping bombs" on anyone because he CAN'T throw them.
  
  When I'm "bitching" about McCoy, I'm taking into consideration his receivers drops, etc. Am I the ONLY one seeing that he's late with a lot of his throws, stares down receivers, CAN'T make a lot of throws and has DB's jumping routes because of his indecision/lack of confidence? THOSE are the reasons I don't see him as the QB that gets them over the hump.
  
  And "bitching" about QB's? Tell me which QB, since they've returned, that we SHOULDN'T be bitching about? They STILL haven't gotten it right.
  
  Completely disagree on "Peyton not being able to put up 20 points with this cast." That's a bullshit cop out. Manning would make the receivers around him better or he'd tell them GTFO.
• Y-Town Steelhound

  

  BR1986FB;1004709 wrote:You're REALLY going to compare McCoy to Philip Rivers? You're not going to see McCoy "dropping bombs" on anyone because he CAN'T throw them.
  
  When I'm "bitching" about McCoy, I'm taking into consideration his receivers drops, etc. Am I the ONLY one seeing that he's late with a lot of his throws, stares down receivers, CAN'T make a lot of throws and has DB's jumping routes because of his indecision/lack of confidence? THOSE are the reasons I don't see him as the QB that gets them over the hump.
  
  And "bitching" about QB's? Tell me which QB, since they've returned, that we SHOULDN'T be bitching about? They STILL haven't gotten it right.
  
  Completely disagree on "Peyton not being able to put up 20 points with this cast." That's a bullshit cop out. Manning would make the receivers around him better or he'd tell them GTFO.

  
  The Browns are going to have a high enough pick to have some type of chance to come out of the draft with one of these four quarterbacks: Matt Barkley, RGIII, Landry Jones, and I'll even throw in Ryan Tannehill. All of these quarterbacks have tools that are better than ANY quarterback the Browns have had since '99. If they don't come out with one of these guys and make some jackass QB pick like Kirk Cousins in the 4th round then there may be no hope. I'd be happy with literally ANY of those four.
• DeyDurkie5

  

  I can see both sides of this argument. When colt has been given time to throw and a decent scheme, he has been able to make the throws and has looked good(bengals first half this year). Honestly, I dont doubt mccoy as our qb. He's been throw into two seasons of awful situations, like more of the browns quarterbacks. It's really hard to judge anyone in this offense. If you put mccoy on say the texans, then you are looking at a playoff team for sure. Mccoy just needs time to make things happen and that doesn't happen often. Now on the opposite side, he has looked for the most part awful. I believe in mccoy, and I don't buy that he cant make all the throws neccesary. You dont need to make all the throws to win, just need to do enough.
• Writerbuckeye

  

  Y-Town Steelhound;1004718 wrote:The Browns are going to have a high enough pick to have some type of chance to come out of the draft with one of these four quarterbacks: Matt Barkley, RGIII, Landry Jones, and I'll even throw in Ryan Tannehill. All of these quarterbacks have tools that are better than ANY quarterback the Browns have had since '99. If they don't come out with one of these guys and make some jackass QB pick like Kirk Cousins in the 4th round then there may be no hope. I'd be happy with literally ANY of those four.

  Aside from Tannehill, I'd have no problem drafting any of those guys if they're available. HOWEVER, if there's a team a few places lower than the Browns that really, really want someone and are willing to give up at least another first (aside from swapping) and second round pick, and perhaps a 3rd or 4th, I'd want them to trade down.
  
  There are simply too many holes that need filling and I can't believe I'm the only person who has seen McCoy regress badly this year from last as the line and receivers got worse (especially the line). I believe he lacks the confidence to stand in the pocket and make his reads, and that's why he's locking onto receivers so quickly -- he literally has no time behind that group, especially the right side.
  
  Give McCoy a line as strong as last year's was, and at least one top line receiver to go with what is already here, and I believe you'd see an entirely different QB. One very capable of leading this offense enough to wins. I am also assuming here the Browns correct the linebacking holes that have killed this defense in the running game since 1999, as well.
• BR1986FB

  [h=1]Time is running out for Colt McCoy to pass his Cleveland Browns audition: Bill Livingston[/h] [h=5]Published: Tuesday, December 06, 2011, 4:40 PM Updated: Tuesday, December 06, 2011, 4:41 PM[/h] By Bill Livingston, The Plain Dealer The Plain Dealer
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  View full sizeJohn Kuntz, The Plain DealerIt's clear that the Browns haven't been generous in giving Colt McCoy much to work with in his two seasons with the team. But Bill Livingston also contends that McCoy hasn't shown that he can improve the players he has -- a talent the great quarterbacks possess.
  
  
  
  CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Pittsburgh used to be called "Hell with the Lid Off," but then the steel industry declined and, apparently, the infernal torments relocated to the hearts and minds of Browns players and fans.
  
  
  A year ago, Pittsburgh was the game in which Colt McCoy got his first start, right there by the rivers' confluence. He fared at least as well as Daniel (his real first name) in the lions' den and became another hope/hype for the future.
  
  Thursday night, McCoy returns to Pittsburgh. The lions are big favorites.
  
  
  McCoy has not looked like he's the answer to the ongoing quarterback crisis. Sports Illustrated's Peter King gave him a "D" grade recently. Reader email is divided, but more and more wonder when McCoy will show something.
  
  
  It is true what McCoy lacks: a stable of play-making wide receivers, separating from defenders like celebrities from spouses; an All-Pro offensive line, allowing patterns to be timed by sun dial; a running back able to hit 'em where they ain't or in the mouth, as the occasion demands.
  
  
  The fact is, however, that nobody has it all, although Troy Aikman came pretty close when he was winning three Super Bowls with the Dallas Cowboys in the 1990s.
  
  
  But when you look around the league, the Steelers' Ben Roethlisberger is playing behind a patchwork line.
  
  
  Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees and Tom Brady are playing at near-historic levels because they have to. Their defenses resemble O.J. Simpson after, as Detective Nordberg in "The Naked Gun," he fell from the upper deck of Dodger Stadium, was flattened by a steamroller, and marched upon by the University of Southern California band. You know, sort of the Chris Gocong position, after Ricky Williams ran over him last Sunday.
  
  
  Brady had a wide receiver in Deion Branch who was only special in Bill Belichick's system. He was a dud in Seattle. The Browns picked up Brady's starting guard, Joe Andruzzi, as a free agent in the Romeo Crennel era, then decided he couldn't play after two seasons.
  
  
  But Browns fans keep thinking a football utopia is required for judgment to made about a quarterback.
  
  
  Certainly, McCoy has been the victim of almost criminal neglect in the laughable assertion in the off-season that either Pat Shurmur could coach up the returning wideouts or that the West Coast offense would allow McCoy to run the "Open sesame" play, and defenses would be powerless to stop it.
  
  
  At least some blame for the failure goes on Peyton Hillis and his ego, injuries and alarming free fall from Madden video trendiness.
  
  
  And yet ... one remembers that Bernie Kosar's receivers -- Webster Slaughter, Reggie Langhorne and Brian Brennan -- made exactly one Pro Bowl among them with the Browns (Slaughter in 1989, although he also was honored with Houston in 1993). Kosar had better protection than McCoy, but he was also far less mobile. After the trade of Earnest Byner and Kevin Mack's trouble with the law, he did not have a powerful running game at his disposal.
  
  
  In each of the three seasons in which the Browns reached the AFC title game, tight end Ozzie Newsome never had 500 yards in receptions. Still, Kosar showed enough in short order to become the franchise's building block. Kosar could throw deep, but he was also adept at the intermediate pass, the 15-yard comebacker or the so-called skinny post.
  
  
  Forget stretching the defenses with the bomb. No one respects even the mid-range pass with the Browns, both because receivers can't get open on such routes and because McCoy seldom throws such balls.
  
  
  Kosar had a gambler's mentality, always looking for the big play. McCoy has been in a short-pass offense since high school. He was programmed in the Big 12 at Texas to dink and dunk. Even his short throws are too often behind the receiver or he has to wait for the ball.
  
  
  In the NFL, a passing league despite the aberration that is Tim Tebow, the game is won and lost in the pocket. Running the shotgun, although McCoy has familiarity with it, is counterproductive over the long haul. It makes running the ball difficult. The inside handoff to the running back can fool them only so many times.
  
  
  Running the hurry-up offense for 60 minutes is worse. Does anyone really want to send this Browns defense out on the field, time after time, after quick three-and-outs?
  
  
  The Browns need to look for a quarterback in the 2012 draft when they have the picks to get a good one. Stanford's Andrew Luck would cost too much to move up to the first pick, but Baylor's Robert Griffin III or USC's Matt Barkley might be there for a probable 4-and-12 Browns team.
  
  
  It's too soon to say McCoy can't play, period. He isn't as inaccurate as Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn. He doesn't make as many bad decisions as Charlie Frye.
  
  This, however, is known as being damned by faint praise.
  
  http://www.cleveland.com/livingston/index.ssf/2011/12/time_is_running_out_for_colt_m.html
• like_that

  

  There is that jaded Cleveland media trying to push somebody out.
• BR1986FB

  like_that;1004753 wrote:There is that jaded Cleveland media trying to push somebody out.

  Disagree completely. He brings up some good points and valid examples.
• Writerbuckeye

  

  Livingston is the pinnacle of a hack's hack. He's almost universally wrong on any issue he writes. I'd be very nervous if you agree with him.