Cavs Continue to Roll in Preseason
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Commander of Awesome
Who is Harrison Barnes, he playing College bball? Outside of OSU I dont pay much attention to the college basketball scene. I think the Cavs have the talent to make a playoff push, but not much else, I do not see us winning 17-25 games like a lot of sports writers are predicting.hoops23;528257 wrote:Harrison Barnes is gonna be nice, but the odds of the Cavs getting the #1 pick again are remote.
Also, I still laugh at people who claim the Cavs have no talent. I'm also starting to believe that the Dynasty and Jordo are the same people. Either that, or they are lovers.
@ Dynasty, thank you oh clairvoyant one! Thank the GODS that you came to drop the knowledge that CP3 was a pipe dream! LMAO get over yourself dumbass, I was posting around then and outside of Gibby, most everyone agreed it was a long shot. Nice FAIL.
About Varejao and stats, of course a players stats will go down when they're not playing with a top 25 player of all time and 2 time MVP. Also Varejao does sooo many things that dont show up in the stat sheet, but are still very valuable. See players like Ben Wallace, Shane Battier, Kendrick Perkins, etc... You going to spout off that they're wastes too because they dont score 20 a night? Good god, I can't believe some of you try to claim NBA knowledge, its like arguing with a goddamn 7 yr old. no matter how dumb they are, they think they're right.
@KR, that is indeed a shame, I'm pulling for him, he's been great over the years. Really pissed me off how he told the story of LBJ dissiin' him over the 7 yrs LeBron was in Cleveland. -
Commander of Awesome
Long as we dont waste them with players like Luke Jackson!KR1245;528367 wrote:It would be nice to have multiple 1st round picks -
thedynasty1998
That's true, because I don't see many moves that they have made as an organization over the past few years that you can really point at and say, "Yea, that was a good move." I mean, not one single move, other than the hiring of Scott. I really don't need to address them all, but if it seems like I've been really negative, well that's because I have. It's just really unfortunate that Ferry couldn't take advantage of the opportunity that he had, and now a year after being the best regular season team in the NBA we are talking about next year's draft.KR1245;528127 wrote:I was using the CP3 and Melo trade as a hypothetical situation. The point that I was trying to make is that no matter what the Cavs do you always find a way to put a negative spin on things. Its get pretty damn annoying. I'm not going to take it to the level of COA but I can certainly see where hes coming from. Its tough to have a discussion with you about the Cavs because regardless of what they do its a mistake......
Hb31187;528137 wrote:Quite a few of you were insisting that pre season means something....so it must. Varejao's numbers are gonna nose dive withotu LBJ to set him up with all those pick and roll dunks
I agree that his numbers will go down. There isn't anyone to get him those easy layups by demanding a double and triple team, and there isn't anyone as great of a passer as Lebron. His rebounding numbers should stay the same or improve, but it's one thing to be that energy guy off the bench for the best team in the NBA, and it's another thing to do it for a team that is fighting for the last playoff spot. -
thedynasty1998
hoops23;528257 wrote:Also, I still laugh at people who claim the Cavs have no talent. I'm also starting to believe that the Dynasty and Jordo are the same people. Either that, or they are lovers.
Okay let's look at this. It's pretty much the consensus that Sessions, Williams, Jamison and Varejao are the Cavs best players. Let's look at them in relation to others at that position:
I don't know enough about Sessions to comment, but I like the pickup. So, I'll say you have some nice talent here.
Mo Williams (is he a PG or SG?) - if he's a PG, he's not even a top 15 PG in the NBA. If he's a SG, he might not be top 20.
Jamison and Hickson - Neither are top 15 players at the PF
Varejao - Not a top 15 Center in the NBA.
As for the bench, they have Boobie, Moon, Parker, Joey Graham, Hickson, and Hollins
If your best player is not a top 15 player at his position in the NBA, I would say that you do not have the overall talent. -
Commander of Awesome
Curious to know your top 15 centers in the game.
JJ Hickson is a bit of an unknown, but I think he will suprise people this yr. Has to keep his head in the game on the defensive side to even be considered top 15 player at his position.
For me its,
Howard, Perkins, Bogut, Bynum I suppose, Camby, NJ Lopez then I have a real tough time going from there. -
thedynasty1998
Top Centers in the NBA:
Dwight Howard – 18.3/13.2/2.8
Kendrick Perkins – 10.1/7.6/1.7
Nene – 13.8/7.6/1
Marc Gasol – 14.6/9.3/1.6
Bynum – 15/8.3/1.4
Horford – 14.2/9.9/1.1
David Lee – 20.2/11.7/.5
Bogut – 15.9/10.2/2.5
Duncan – 17.9/10.1/1.5
Lopez – 18.8/8.6/1.7
Al Jefferson – 17.1/9.3/1.3
Okur – 13.5/7.1/1.1
Kaman – 18.5/9.3/1.2
Dalembert – 8.1/9.6/1.8
Haywood – 9.1/9.3/2.1
Jason Thompson – 12.5/8.5/1
Okafor – 10.4/9/1.5
Camby – 7.5/11.8/2
See what happens when someone provides actual data and looks at the big picture. Varejao is put into perspective and you realize he's not nearly as good of a player as some think. -
Hb31187
Nene, Kaman, Okur, Okafor, Dalembert and im sure a handful more that i cant name off the top of my head.
Edit...dammit dynasty beat me to it lol -
Commander of Awesome
You're "actual data" (lolz) are stats. congrats dumbass you went to nba.com. Varejao is right on par stats wise with many of them. System they play in, how many minutes they get, etc... can skew stats like crazy. Ben Wallace didn't put up stats but was one of the best centers in the league and a game changer for many seasons. You forgot the gimmie layup I left out, Jokim Noah. Also many of those listed aren't centers, they're PF. David Lee, Horford are centers? lol ok. Way to prove you know nothing about the NBA. This is why trying to have an intelligent conversation with you is futile.
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Commander of Awesome
So? LeBron was our SF, but was really the PG. Wade was the SG for the Heat, but was really their PG. If you actually watch and know the game of basketball, which clearly you two don't, you would understand this.
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KR1245
thedynasty1998;528505 wrote:Top Centers in the NBA:
Dwight Howard – 18.3/13.2/2.8
Kendrick Perkins – 10.1/7.6/1.7
Nene – 13.8/7.6/1
Marc Gasol – 14.6/9.3/1.6
Bynum – 15/8.3/1.4
Horford – 14.2/9.9/1.1
David Lee – 20.2/11.7/.5
Bogut – 15.9/10.2/2.5
Duncan – 17.9/10.1/1.5
Lopez – 18.8/8.6/1.7
Al Jefferson – 17.1/9.3/1.3
Okur – 13.5/7.1/1.1
Kaman – 18.5/9.3/1.2
Dalembert – 8.1/9.6/1.8
Haywood – 9.1/9.3/2.1
Jason Thompson – 12.5/8.5/1
Okafor – 10.4/9/1.5
Camby – 7.5/11.8/2
See what happens when someone provides actual data and looks at the big picture. Varejao is put into perspective and you realize he's not nearly as good of a player as some think.
Those numbers are nice. You have to realize that some of those guys are 1st, 2nd or 3rd options for their team. Andy was probaly the 5th or 6th option for the Cavs. He also didnt get the same amount of minutes as alot of those players. Those numbers dont prove anything imo -
thedynasty1998
Commander of Awesome;528541 wrote:You're "actual data" (lolz) are stats. congrats dumbass you went to nba.com. Varejao is right on par stats wise wise many of them. System they play in etc... can skew stats like crazy. Ben Wallace didn't put up stats but was one of the best centers in the league and a game changer for many seasons. Also many of those listed aren't centers, they're PF. David Lee, Horford are centers? lol ok. This is why trying to have an intelligent conversation with you is futile.
I don't mind responding to you if you want to actually debate something, and I really can't tell if you do or not.
Ben Wallace was never a top center.
Yes, data=stats. What the hell else did you think I was talking about? I didn't just throw names out there without supporting it. I mean what is so funny about data meaning statistics? Really don't see what the humor is here?
Varejao averages 8.6/7.6/1 on a team that was the 9th highest scoring team in the NBA last year, so they obviously played at a fast pace.
As for his stats:
8.6 ppg puts him above Dalembert and Camby
7.6 rpg puts him above Okur and ties him with 2 others
1 block puts him on par with about 4 others
No matter what statistic you look at, he's not a top 15 at his position, and don't even try to say his intangibles make up that margin.
He's really not even close to be a top 15 center in the NBA.
As for Horford, he's their starting center. That is a fact. What other position would I list him at?
David Lee? Played mostly center in NY last year, is listed at a C, and will play that position some this year in GS.
I think I just pwned you, although I'm not sure what that means? Sorry if usually actual data is something that you can't comprehend.
And if you really want to have this discussion, since I already listed centers in the NBA, how about you tell us which centers Varejao is better than. -
thedynasty1998
KR1245;528564 wrote:Those numbers are nice. You have to realize that some of those guys are 1st, 2nd or 3rd options for their team. Andy was probaly the 5th or 6th option for the Cavs. He also didnt get the same amount of minutes as alot of those players. Those numbers dont prove anything imo
This is mind boggling how simple minded people can be. So, stats don't mean anything now? What else is there to go off of? The eye test? Well Varejao doesn't pass that either. And options on the team only applies to scoring, I already explained how Varejao isn't even one of the top rebounders or shot blockers.
I'm obviously having a difficult time understanding how Varejao is so valuable, so please show me. Don't just say, "he hustles", because so did Mark Madsen. I'm up for debating this, but when you make claims like stats don't matter it's hard to even respond. -
thedynasty1998
Commander of Awesome;528557 wrote:So? LeBron was our SF, but was really the PG. Wade was the SG for the Heat, but was really their PG. If you actually watch and know the game of basketball, which clearly you two don't, you would understand this.
So should we just compare all guys over 6'10"? You are so hard to even discuss things with because you set your own standards. All I could do is go off of what guys are listed at, and that's not good enough. -
Commander of Awesome
thedynasty1998;528565 wrote: Ben Wallace was never a top center.
don't even try to say his intangibles make up that margin.
David Lee? Played mostly center in NY last year, is listed at a C, and will play that position some this year in GS.
Nope David Lee is playing PF for GS, nice FAIL. Tim Duncan plays....wait for it......PF with the Spurs.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/gsw/depthchart
I never said Anderson is a top 15 center, and didn't read anyone spouting that either, just better than you think he is, and worth his money. Nice idiotic fail arguement on your part, you're arguing with yourself.
Ben Wallace was certainly a top center at one point in his career, very much like Perkins whom you tout as a top 15 center. Sorry but 4 time defensive player of the year is a top 15 player at their position, IMO and anyone else who watches/knows the game of basketball. Sure he didn't light a team for 30 pts, but thats not everything in basketball. You're a typical nba idiot that only sees the offensive stat sheet, go back to your fantasy team, we want to discuss real NBA. -
Commander of Awesome
thedynasty1998;528569 wrote:This is mind boggling how simple minded people can be.
LOL i think you get the award for being "mind boggled" the most on this forum. I swear I read you say this just about every day. -
Hb31187
So the announcers and ex nba players last night during the Heat Hawks game talking about how Horford is an undersized CENTER but uses his lower center of gravity to effectively guard taller CENTERS must be wrong, right? Nba.com and yahoo sports must also have their depth charts wrong, right? The fact that anybody that mildly understands basketball would realize that Horford is the C and Josh Smith is the PF of the Hawks must also be wrong too right? Because we all know you cant be mistaken....
And someone telling me Idk the game of basketball and doesnt even know who Harrison Barnes is...LOL -
KR1245
thedynasty1998;528569 wrote:This is mind boggling how simple minded people can be. So, stats don't mean anything now? What else is there to go off of? The eye test? Well Varejao doesn't pass that either. And options on the team only applies to scoring, I already explained how Varejao isn't even one of the top rebounders or shot blockers.
I'm obviously having a difficult time understanding how Varejao is so valuable, so please show me. Don't just say, "he hustles", because so did Mark Madsen. I'm up for debating this, but when you make claims like stats don't matter it's hard to even respond.
Simple minded........get off your high horse you arrogant prick.
"Numerous team have inquired about Varejao"..... Its crazy how these NBA GM's want a guy with no talent isnt it?
According to Ken Berger of CBS Sports, "sources say numerous teams have inquired about [Anderson] Varejao, but the Cavs won't even entertain such talks unless they're getting a superstar in return."
In particular, Berger reports he's on Denver's list of veteran players it'd like in a trade for Carmelo Anthony, but that Melo has no interest in signing an extension in Cleveland.
Denver's frontcourt has been slowed by injuries heading into the season, and Varejao could provide a reliable and capable starter if need be, or some high energy off the bench.
But if the team won't get a star in return, it looks like they'll be holding onto him for now.
Yet, don't entirely rule it out in the future. It's been speculated that if Cleveland is struggling at the trade deadline this season, Mo Williams and Antawn Jamison could be on the block.
If the team is able to package one of them with Varejao for a star, it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibly they could indeed include him in such a deal if it makes sense. -
Commander of Awesome
What does knowing who a freshman at NC (I googled him yes I admit it) have to do with knowing the game of basketball? Sorry I dont follow high school basketball, I like the NBA and OSU basketball. Pretty hard to watch a highschool basketball game in Iowa, lolfail. Might as well try to tell me you saw finding forrester so that makes you an expert on FTs....smh the idiots on here.
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Commander of Awesome
KR1245;528579 wrote:Simple minded........get off your high horse you arrogant prick.
"Numerous team have inquired about Varejao"..... Its crazy how these NBA GM's want a guy with no talent isnt it?
According to Ken Berger of CBS Sports, "sources say numerous teams have inquired about [Anderson] Varejao, but the Cavs won't even entertain such talks unless they're getting a superstar in return."
In particular, Berger reports he's on Denver's list of veteran players it'd like in a trade for Carmelo Anthony, but that Melo has no interest in signing an extension in Cleveland.
Denver's frontcourt has been slowed by injuries heading into the season, and Varejao could provide a reliable and capable starter if need be, or some high energy off the bench.
But if the team won't get a star in return, it looks like they'll be holding onto him for now.
Yet, don't entirely rule it out in the future. It's been speculated that if Cleveland is struggling at the trade deadline this season, Mo Williams and Antawn Jamison could be on the block.
If the team is able to package one of them with Varejao for a star, it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibly they could indeed include him in such a deal if it makes sense.
But KR, don't these teams' GMs read the Stat sheets?!!!!!!??!!!! MIND BOGGLING!!!!
@ Dynasty, if the game was all about filling out the stat sheet, why didn't you get drafted/play in europe/go to a real school? Surely this must be a mistake, because you killed the state sheet in what every comm college bracket you played in, or was it the Jewish Rec league? Just saying, obviously an oversight there. -
Hb31187
I take it since you didnt respond to the first part you admit you were, and are still wrong about Horford. Thanks.Commander of Awesome;528581 wrote:What does knowing who a freshman at NC (I googled him yes I admit it) have to do with knowing the game of basketball? Sorry I dont follow high school basketball, I like the NBA and OSU basketball. Pretty hard to watch a highschool basketball game in Iowa, lolfail. Might as well try to tell me you saw finding forrester so that makes you an expert on FTs....smh the idiots on here.
And lol its not hard to watch when they played like 5 or 6 of his games on ESPN in a showcase during the year but nice try again. -
thedynasty1998
KR1245;528579 wrote:Simple minded........get off your high horse you arrogant prick.
"Numerous team have inquired about Varejao"..... Its crazy how these NBA GM's want a guy with no talent isnt it?
According to Ken Berger of CBS Sports, "sources say numerous teams have inquired about [Anderson] Varejao, but the Cavs won't even entertain such talks unless they're getting a superstar in return."
In particular, Berger reports he's on Denver's list of veteran players it'd like in a trade for Carmelo Anthony, but that Melo has no interest in signing an extension in Cleveland.
Denver's frontcourt has been slowed by injuries heading into the season, and Varejao could provide a reliable and capable starter if need be, or some high energy off the bench.
But if the team won't get a star in return, it looks like they'll be holding onto him for now.
Yet, don't entirely rule it out in the future. It's been speculated that if Cleveland is struggling at the trade deadline this season, Mo Williams and Antawn Jamison could be on the block.
If the team is able to package one of them with Varejao for a star, it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibly they could indeed include him in such a deal if it makes sense.
WTF are you even talking about?
Teams expressing interest in a player doesn't prove anything. He's not a bad player, I'm not saying that. But he's not as good as Cavs fans think he is.
What the hell does teams expressing interest prove? Nothing.
And the Cavs won't trade him unless they get a star in return? What the fuck are they thinking? No team is going to trade a "star" for a serviceable backup. Yes, I am an arrogant prick when I have to talk to dumbasses. -
thedynasty1998
Commander of Awesome;528573 wrote:Tim Duncan plays....wait for it......PF with the Spurs.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/gsw/depthchart
Ummm... wait for it.....wait for it..... FAIL
And don't try to say McDyess is the Spurs center. -
thedynasty1998
What's comical is that I listed 18 guys, who are without question, better than Varejao and we want to argue about the true position of two of them.
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Commander of Awesome
Hb31187;528584 wrote:I take it since you didnt respond to the first part you admit you were, and are still wrong about Horford. Thanks.
And lol its not hard to watch when they played like 5 or 6 of his games on ESPN in a showcase during the year but nice try again.
Yes HB he starts the game at the Center position, congrats on missing the whole point of my post. Not surpised though. Hordford is not even a top 25 center then.