Ohio Chatter DEV

jmog

Now you know it's all smoke and mirror BS, ole Jesse Jackson has got involved in the circus.

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2013/12/26/phil-robertson-jesse-jackson-says-more-offensive-than-rosa-parks-driver/?intcmp=features

isadore

OSH;1557807 wrote:Those were his experiences. He had first-hand experience of working with black people in the farms. he even said he grew up white trash and had nothing. He worked right alongside individuals that had the same, only a different color. How can you deny what he experienced first-hand? Why would he say otherwise about who he worked with?

During his time of segregation, is not the same time as what we know now. Many weren't integrated and many didn't "sing the blues" as he put it. How is that so hard to believe? How can you say anything else about his experiences? Did you live with him? Were you there with him? What documentation do you have that proves his story otherwise? I can't wait to see another "source" that is completely illegible due to your sucky copy and paste attempts.

He did more than hoe and pick 24/7 for 20 years. When he went into town he did not notice the separate and inferior facilities for blacks. He attended segregated churches. Gosh he attended a segregated school system to graduation. He did not notice the inferior schools for blacks. . He played sports on segregated teams. He went to a segregated university. Gosh Phil got a bachelors in Physical Education and a Masters in education. Which makes him at least a semi educated man. Still he denies what was occurring.
Of course we have the examples of the racial hatred, violence and the examples of black resistance from books and newspaper accounts. Examples are cited on this thread in easy to read form by anyone who wishes to. You and Phil have something in common, you both refuse to see the obvious signs of racism and resistance right in front of you. Given his extended view over decades he is an apologist for Jim Crow, the American Apartheid. Given yours over the last few days, it is probably just poor vision. You might need new glasses.

Apple

isadore;1557830 wrote:He did more than hoe and pick 24/7 for 20 years. When he went into town he did not notice the separate and inferior facilities for blacks. He attended segregated churches. Gosh he attended a segregated school system to graduation. He did not notice the inferior schools for blacks. . He played sports on segregated teams. He went to a segregated university. Gosh Phil got a bachelors in Physical Education and a Masters in education. Which makes him at least a semi educated man. Still he denies what was occurring. Of course we have the examples of the racial hatred, violence and the examples of black resistance from books and newspaper accounts. Examples are cited on this thread in easy to read form by anyone who wishes to. You and Phil have something in common, you both refuse to see the obvious signs of racism and resistance right in front of you. Given his extended view over decades he is an apologist for Jim Crow, the American Apartheid. Given yours over the last few days, it is probably just poor vision. You might need new glasses.

To equate Robinson today with what he was when he was a kid/adolescent/college student growing up and to condemn him now for any actions or inactions he did or didn't do back then as a "youth" would be like claiming a 65-year old drug counselor today is really a drug cartel member because he smoked and maybe sold some Mexican pot back in the 1960s.

Just as the former drug user/dealer "found his way" and reformed himself to now help people as a counselor today, it seems to me that Robinson also has "found his way" and reformed his life through the teachings of the Bible.

This whole DD/Robinson situation seems to me to be more about a hatred against Christianity and a need to stymie anyone, especially those who are famous/rich who proclaim they are Christian. This time the Christian haters are just using claims of racism and homophobia to shut Robinson up.

isadore

Apple;1557835 wrote:To equate Robinson today with what he was when he was a kid/adolescent/college student growing up and to condemn him now for any actions or inactions he did or didn't do back then as a "youth" would be like claiming a 65-year old drug counselor today is really a drug cartel member because he smoked and maybe sold some Mexican pot back in the 1960s.

Just as the former drug user/dealer "found his way" and reformed himself to now help people as a counselor today, it seems to me that Robinson also has "found his way" and reformed his life through the teachings of the Bible.

This whole DD/Robinson situation seems to me to be more about a hatred against Christianity and a need to stymie anyone, especially those who are famous/rich who proclaim they are Christian. This time the Christian haters are just using claims of racism and homophobia to shut Robinson up.

But old Phil is saying things were great for blacks during the old days of segregation. They were happy and not singing the blues. There were examples all around him to the contrary and he still today makes that claim. If you want an analogy with drugs it would be someone being part of the drug (Jim Crow System) then and today saying it was great and that its victims were happy to be part of it. That is not someone being reformed but someone who supports the crime. A drug cartel in your analogy, Jim Crow segregation in Phil’s actions and comments. The world would be better if a racist homophobe would shut up.

Apple

To get Robinson to change his opinion of homosexual behavior you will need to either 1. convince him to reject Christianity and become a Christian hater, or 2. take your gripe directly to those in charge of rewriting Christian doctrine and convince them to change it. Good luck with both!

Robinson cannot be blamed for the Jim Crow laws (that distinction will forever be attributed to the Democrat party), nor can he be blamed for being born into a part of the country where they were slow to eradicate the laws. He personally broke through the barriers set up by the segregationist society and worked along side of blacks. Today he says the blacks he worked with (to paraphrase) weren't unhappy etc. If someone finds the need to call him a racist because of that, they really need to open their minds and take their blinders off.

sherm03

Apple;1557840 wrote:To get Robinson to change his opinion of homosexual behavior you will need to either 1. convince him to reject Christianity and become a Christian hater, or 2. take your gripe directly to those in charge of rewriting Christian doctrine and convince them to change it. Good luck with both!

Robinson cannot be blamed for the Jim Crow laws (that distinction will forever be attributed to the Democrat party), nor can he be blamed for being born into a part of the country where they were slow to eradicate the laws. He personally broke through the barriers set up by the segregationist society and worked along side of blacks. Today he says the blacks he worked with (to paraphrase) weren't unhappy etc. If someone finds the need to call him a racist because of that, they really need to open their minds and take their blinders off.

The same can be said for most religious people. Maybe I just had really good teachers growing up. But every religion teacher I had said that you shouldn't just blindly accept everything that is said in the Bible. You need to look for the underlying message since the Bible was written for people of that time. Every teacher's big joke was that nothing was written in stone, except the 10 Commandments (cue the Price is Right horn). But the point makes sense. Just because people back in that day thought things like homosexuality were wrong, doesn't mean we can't open our minds and take our Bible blinders off and say that doesn't really apply to today's world.

queencitybuckeye

sherm03;1557851 wrote:Just because people back in that day thought things like homosexuality were wrong, doesn't mean we can't open our minds and take our Bible blinders off and say that doesn't really apply to today's world.

I find this interesting as I was following a discussion somewhere else where someone was taking particular (or peculiar) pride in the idea that the word of God is unchanging. I don't remember this being a part of the teaching in the church I grew up in, not sure if it's part of the teachings of some denominations?

Apple

sherm03;1557851 wrote:The same can be said for most religious people. Maybe I just had really good teachers growing up. But every religion teacher I had said that you shouldn't just blindly accept everything that is said in the Bible. You need to look for the underlying message since the Bible was written for people of that time. Every teacher's big joke was that nothing was written in stone, except the 10 Commandments (cue the Price is Right horn). But the point makes sense. Just because people back in that day thought things like homosexuality were wrong, doesn't mean we can't open our minds and take our Bible blinders off and say that doesn't really apply to today's world.

I was not referring to Christianity when I mentioned taking the blinders off. I mentioned needing to go to those who can re-write church doctrine to get them to change their views on homosexual acts, so I guess we both agree on the Bible blinders point you made.

When I mentioned taking the blinders off, I was referring to the fact that Robertson actually broke through the segregation by working along side blacks and that those who now call him a racist need to take off their blinders and acknowledge he was working with blacks (which actually goes totally against the Jim Crow ideals).

isadore

Apple;1557840 wrote:To get Robinson to change his opinion of homosexual behavior you will need to either 1. convince him to reject Christianity and become a Christian hater, or 2. take your gripe directly to those in charge of rewriting Christian doctrine and convince them to change it. Good luck with both!

Robinson cannot be blamed for the Jim Crow laws (that distinction will forever be attributed to the Democrat party), nor can he be blamed for being born into a part of the country where they were slow to eradicate the laws. He personally broke through the barriers set up by the segregationist society and worked along side of blacks. Today he says the blacks he worked with (to paraphrase) weren't unhappy etc. If someone finds the need to call him a racist because of that, they really need to open their minds and take their blinders off.

1. Gosh a ruddies we have several examples of Christian churches accepting homosexuality. Then we have the example of the Pope de-emphasizing the issue. While good old Phil is giving sermons comparing them to murderers and interviews comparing them to practitioners of bestiality. He is a true hater of homosexuals
2. Phil did not create Jim Crow but he got the advantages of it in the “whites only” facilities and schools that he used. He lived in the midst of Jim Crow laws and racial violence. Black resistance to the system was taking place around him. They were not happy about the conditions.
Phil claimed they were not singing the blues. A blues\-protest song was written in 1963 by Sam Cooke after being arrested trying to register in a holiday Inn which enforced the whites only Jim Crow law.
http://www.shmoop.com/change-is-gonna-come/lyrics.html
But Phil continues to defend the effects of this horrible system. He is a bigoted racist.
Apple hopefully you know that the bulk of segregationists left the Democratic for the Republican Party. Lead by arch segregations Strom Thurmond, Jesse Helms and Trent Lott. They were welcomed as part of Nixon’s Southern Strategy. Phil’s one of that gang, he has found a political home.

Heretic

Commander of Awesome;1557733 wrote:That doesn't make sense as an answer to my question. Were you aware that you suffered from comprehension issues?

Maybe he also has Aspergers? It'd make sense, since he posts in a way that illustrates a painful lacking of ability to talk to someone like a normal human being.

sherm03

queencitybuckeye;1557854 wrote:I find this interesting as I was following a discussion somewhere else where someone was taking particular (or peculiar) pride in the idea that the word of God is unchanging. I don't remember this being a part of the teaching in the church I grew up in, not sure if it's part of the teachings of some denominations?

Ya, I've come across several people who say that there is no ambivalence in God's word. But when pointing out the differences between the Old Testament God and the New Testament God and the vast difference in word/behavior, they have no answer. I was told by teachers/priests/pastors that we are MEANT to question things and that everything in the Bible is not black and white. But, as you said, perhaps some denominations teach that what is written is it and there's no room for interpretation.

Apple;1557866 wrote:I was not referring to Christianity when I mentioned taking the blinders off. I mentioned needing to go to those who can re-write church doctrine to get them to change their views on homosexual acts, so I guess we both agree on the Bible blinders point you made.

When I mentioned taking the blinders off, I was referring to the fact that Robertson actually broke through the segregation by working along side blacks and that those who now call him a racist need to take off their blinders and acknowledge he was working with blacks (which actually goes totally against the Jim Crow ideals).

I know what you were referring to. And I agree with you. I was just saying that people on BOTH sides need to remove their blinders when looking at issues like this (not necessarily this particular issue).

Apple

isadore;1557870 wrote:1. Gosh a ruddies we have several examples of Christian churches accepting homosexuality. Then we have the example of the Pope de-emphasizing the issue. While good old Phil is giving sermons comparing them to murderers and interviews comparing them to practitioners of bestiality. He is a true hater of homosexuals
2. Phil did not create Jim Crow but he got the advantages of it in the “whites only” facilities and schools that he used. He lived in the midst of Jim Crow laws and racial violence. Black resistance to the system was taking place around him. They were not happy about the conditions.
Phil claimed they were not singing the blues. A blues\-protest song was written in 1963 by Sam Cooke after being arrested trying to register in a holiday Inn which enforced the whites only Jim Crow law.
http://www.shmoop.com/change-is-gonna-come/lyrics.html
But Phil continues to defend the effects of this horrible system. He is a bigoted racist.
Apple hopefully you know that the bulk of segregationists left the Democratic for the Republican Party. Lead by arch segregations Strom Thurmond, Jesse Helms and Trent Lott. They were welcomed as part of Nixon’s Southern Strategy. Phil’s one of that gang, he has found a political home.

Knowing a person with Aspergers and now Heretic's revelation, I am understanding you better.

1. Yes some churches are changing their view on homosexual acts and even the Pope, while not taking Catholicism anywhere near as far as some denominations, has reached out to the gays. Obviously, the beliefs of Robertson's church have not experienced these kinds of changes. In a circumstance like this would it not be more correct to fault those who write the church doctrine than to fault the followers? Do you also blame the soldiers who's numbers were escalated in Viet Nam but not the Democrat President Johnson who sent them there?
2. What part of "He broke through the institution of Jim Crow and worked WITH blacks" do you not understand???? Sam Cooke wrote a song in 1963? That was when Phil was what, 15 years old? What does Phil have to do with that? Oh yeah, I remember now, he went to work with black people!

Thurmond, Helms and Lott were all in the Senate when the majority leader was former KKK grand poobah Democrat Robert Byrd weren't they? You can't deflect the truth that the KKK was started by Democrats by saying some politicians left the party! but hey, nice try!

isadore

Apple;1557889 wrote:Knowing a person with Aspergers and now Heretic's revelation, I am understanding you better.

1. Yes some churches are changing their view on homosexual acts and even the Pope, while not taking Catholicism anywhere near as far as some denominations, has reached out to the gays. Obviously, the beliefs of Robertson's church have not experienced these kinds of changes. In a circumstance like this would it not be more correct to fault those who write the church doctrine than to fault the followers? Do you also blame the soldiers who's numbers were escalated in Viet Nam but not the Democrat President Johnson who sent them there?
2. What part of "He broke through the institution of Jim Crow and worked WITH blacks" do you not understand???? Sam Cooke wrote a song in 1963? That was when Phil was what, 15 years old? What does Phil have to do with that? Oh yeah, I remember now, he went to work with black people!

Thurmond, Helms and Lott were all in the Senate when the majority leader was former KKK grand poobah Democrat Robert Byrd weren't they? You can't deflect the truth that the KKK was started by Democrats by saying some politicians left the party! but hey, nice try!

When you propagate the faith through sermons, you take responsibility. When you chose to compare homosexuals to practitioners of bestiality and murder, you take responsibility. When you chose to evangelize based on homophobia, you take responsibility.
Phil excuses the policy that got Sam Cooke arrested. Phil excuses the license given to the KKK to persecute blacks. Phil excuses the policy that treated blacks as second class citizens. He grew up in this environment and now he makes excuses for it by saying blacks were happy under this system, when that has been shown to be untrue. He fought against nothing and today he continues to make excuses and lie about the American Apartheid, which he witnessed and benefited from for multiple decades of his life.
As any informed person knows the bulk of white racists including those previously listed found a home in the Republican Party as the blacks they persecuted found a home in the Democratic Party. Phil of course is with his own kind.

Apple

Nice try isadore, but your claims and rebuttals, as real as you imagine them to be, do not change my opinion on this subject.

It is obvious I have not gotten through to you either.

Good luck next time!

GoPens

Apple;1557889 wrote:
1. Yes some churches are changing their view on homosexual acts and even the Pope, while not taking Catholicism anywhere near as far as some denominations, has reached out to the gays.

I LOL when people call homosexuals "the gays". It's like they're not even human or part of a different sub species. Then again after reading some of the posts on here, it doesn't surprise me a bit.

OSH

isadore;1557830 wrote:He did more than hoe and pick 24/7 for 20 years. When he went into town he did not notice the separate and inferior facilities for blacks. He attended segregated churches. Gosh he attended a segregated school system to graduation. He did not notice the inferior schools for blacks. . He played sports on segregated teams. He went to a segregated university. Gosh Phil got a bachelors in Physical Education and a Masters in education. Which makes him at least a semi educated man. Still he denies what was occurring.
Of course we have the examples of the racial hatred, violence and the examples of black resistance from books and newspaper accounts. Examples are cited on this thread in easy to read form by anyone who wishes to. You and Phil have something in common, you both refuse to see the obvious signs of racism and resistance right in front of you. Given his extended view over decades he is an apologist for Jim Crow, the American Apartheid. Given yours over the last few days, it is probably just poor vision. You might need new glasses.

He stated the black people he worked with did not act "unhappy." He didn't say anything about the lack of segregation. He never even said anything about it. His comments were about handouts...

And...your continued spewing revolves around a semi-interview from GQ -- and because someone else uncovered a sermon, that now. You have NO idea how and what was said during the whole GQ hangout day the author had. You have no idea what he picked and decided to publish. You are basing all of your ASSumptions off of 2-3 quotes from GQ. You ever thought about the whole day had more said than 4 quotes? You ever thought there may be more to the story and what his comments revolve around? Probably not. That doesn't require copy/paste.

Apple

GoPens;1557917 wrote:I LOL when people call homosexuals "the gays". It's like they're not even human or part of a different sub species. Then again after reading some of the posts on here, it doesn't surprise me a bit.

I know what you mean. This place can be a real hoot. I LOL at the PC police about as much as I LOL at the grammar police! It is even funnier when something can be grammatically correct and the PC police are able to find fault in it! Then again, nothing on here surprises me.

GoPens

PC Police? LOL. That's fine. At least I don't come off as a bigoted, pompous ass.

jmog

GoPens;1557942 wrote:PC Police? LOL. That's fine. At least I don't come off as a bigoted, pompous ass.

Maybe it's not "PC" to say 'the gays' or 'the blacks' or 'the Jews', but when referring to one group as a whole or in general I don't think it is racist or bigotted to say 'the blacks' or 'the gays'.

That is just short/slang for saying "the black community" or "the homosexual community".

It might sound 'bad' but I wouldn't consider it racist/bigotted. People need a little thicker skin.

pmoney25

jmog;1557943 wrote:Maybe it's not "PC" to say 'the gays' or 'the blacks' or 'the Jews', but when referring to one group as a whole or in general I don't think it is racist or bigotted to say 'the blacks' or 'the gays'.

That is just short/slang for saying "the black community" or "the homosexual community".

It might sound 'bad' but I wouldn't consider it racist/bigotted. People need a little thicker skin.

I always find it strange that people don't understand that when they group people together by race or sexual preference they actually perpetuate racism or homophobia. The collectivism philosophy that always wants to group people together is the main cause for these overreactions.

HitsRus