Women and Minorities: A Question.

• Fly4Fun

  

  sleeper;1396927 wrote:Because it's absolutely true! LOL. Woe for all those slaves and especially woe for all those black people who weren't slaves, who weren't segregated back in the day with Jim Crows laws, and get preferential racial treatment; Oh I just feel so bad for them. :laugh:

  Are you telling me that you actually believe slavery was for the benefit of those who were enslaved? That's what his post says.
• sleeper

  

  Fly4Fun;1397019 wrote:Are you telling me that you actually believe slavery was for the benefit of those who enslaved? That's what his post says.

  Absolutely. Africa at the time was riddled in conflict and that's why the slave trade was so prevalent. When an army conquered a town, they would take the losing side and sell them in the slave trade. When they got to America, they were given food, shelter, medical care, etc. in exchange for labor. In Africa, they were lucky to get food much less not die of disease or a bullet(or worse).
  
  I don't think slavery is a good thing, but pretending it wasn't a better alternative from Africa is fraud at best and fraud at worst. :thumbdown:
• Fly4Fun

  

  sleeper;1397035 wrote:Absolutely. Africa at the time was riddled in conflict and that's why the slave trade was so prevalent. When an army conquered a town, they would take the losing side and sell them in the slave trade. When they got to America, they were given food, shelter, medical care, etc. in exchange for labor. In Africa, they were lucky to get food much less not die of disease or a bullet(or worse).
  
  I don't think slavery is a good thing, but pretending it wasn't a better alternative from Africa is fraud at best and fraud at worst. :thumbdown:

  And that officially ends any reasonable discussion with you on this topic.
• ernest_t_bass

  

  Fly4Fun;1397061 wrote:And that officially ends any reasonable discussion with you on this topic.

  As far fetched as it is, there is still some credit that can be given to the statement.
  
  If I took you off the street, a homeless man, malnourished... and made you my slave, giving you shelter, food, water, clothing, etc., but treated you like absolute shit... you'd still be better off as my slave.
• Fly4Fun

  

  ernest_t_bass;1397071 wrote:As far fetched as it is, there is still some credit that can be given to the statement.
  
  If I took you off the street, a homeless man, malnourished... and made you my slave, giving you shelter, food, water, clothing, etc., but treated you like absolute shit... you'd still be better off as my slave.

  No, just no.
• BoatShoes

  bigdaddy2003;1396876 wrote:The problem is that from posts and other members who seem to be liberal as well you think minorities are still being held back by "the man" and that white people have nothing to complain about in 2013.

  I actually have a post ITT wherein I suggest that AA is justified "not because they're being held down by the man" but that it is a matter of dessert as opposed to "need" per se. Sure was fun when whites got all kinds of positive discrimination based on race but now whites decide minorities get no positive discrimination based on race. I have faith in minorities to outperform less talented whites without it by we have a compelling interest in positive discrimination that benefits minorities because they deserve it in a general sense as a group that was historically negatively discriminated against.
  
  And yes, white males as a group generally have nothing to complain about in 2013 as it pertains to discrimination against their race alone. For instance, a white male rejected for being an officer in the military as it seeks to diversify...meanwhile the overwhelming majority of military officers are white males and the best white males still get in.
• BoatShoes

  FatHobbit;1397011 wrote:I think racial quotas are ridiculous. If I'm applying for a job why should someone less qualified than me get it because of the color of their skin? And then I read something like this and realize there are people who still think like this.

  Racial "quotas" per se do not exist. A firm may look for a more diverse workforce but nobody is out there saying "We need X number of Asians" etc.
• BoatShoes

  Sonofanump;1396890 wrote:I might be able to find 3,006 of them.

  I'm game for an example. Since you are so reasonable beyond ways that I could hope since you found that many problems with my posts I'm sure I would be better for it.
• sleeper

  

  Fly4Fun;1397061 wrote:And that officially ends any reasonable discussion with you on this topic.

  You really think blacks didn't benefit from American slavery? I'm not saying it was morally right, but their alternative was 1000x worse.
• sleeper

  

  ernest_t_bass;1397071 wrote:As far fetched as it is, there is still some credit that can be given to the statement.
  
  If I took you off the street, a homeless man, malnourished... and made you my slave, giving you shelter, food, water, clothing, etc., but treated you like absolute shit... you'd still be better off as my slave.

  C4F went to liberal ivory tower that is Dartmouth. The homeless man should be given his freedom, an iphone, a mansion, cable TV, high speed internet, and all the food he wants paid for the backs of the ultra wealthy. :thumbdown:
• Gblock

  native americans are better off too lol
• sleeper

  

  Gblock;1397130 wrote:native americans are better off too lol

  I doubt that, but I'd be curious to see your arguments.
• BoatShoes

  sleeper;1397035 wrote:I don't think slavery is a good thing, but pretending it wasn't a better alternative from Africa is fraud at best and fraud at worst. :thumbdown:

  This thread is amazing! A freedom loving libertarian such as your fake internet personality ought to know that freedom in squalor (which Africa was not in at the time anyway as European invaders like the portuguese were often repelled prior to the 1800s) is preferable to comfortable bondage (which slavery was absolutely not!)
  
  The competing African tribes were encouraged to go to war with one another and supply slaves to satisfy the demand of Europeans seeking slaves, more so than anything else. It was all a by-product of European exploitation...you either had to sell slaves to the Europeans or become a Slave to the Europeans.
  
  Africa had a lot of natural resources that invading Europeans and Westerners seeking slaves sought to exploit. They most certainly would've been better of using the resources for themselves and their posterity as opposed to having them extracted by conquerors and turned to into slaves.
• Heretic

  

  bigdaddy2003;1396800 wrote:You might see he that he owned the thread if you didn't live in a liberal Democrat bubble.

  Remember, parents: never let your children grow up to be politards.
• Gblock

  i didnt write this but it makes some relevant points
  
  Did Blacks benefit from slavery?
  
  Picture this:
  
  You and I are to run a 5 mile race. We both start at the same time only, I have on a 50 lb vest, ankle weights and a ball-and-chain around my foot. About half way through the race, the time keeper tells me I can take all the excess weight off and run the rest of the race like you. Am I really gonna catch up to you in time to beat you at this race?
  
  You're thinking seems very shallow. You forgot to mention that AFTER slavery the quality of life for blacks was worse. Jim Crow, remember? We couldn't vote for a very long time, remember? White people look at slavery and the years after slavery as "the past" It's not just the past, It was the time when we were forcibly held down and held back.
  
  Right now many of us are trying to "play catch up" kinda like the analogy at the top. You're reading this and you probably wonder, "All some blacks do is sit on their asses all day, or they would rather be on welfare, or they are lazy or whatever else you may be thinking. I'm here to tell you that some of the negative things in the black community are the result of the chain effect of slavery. Many blacks settled for less because that may have been a survival mechanism. That's one of the attitudes that can be passed down from generation to generation and it creates a vicious cycle. Catching up ain't easy, White bread.
  
  Yes, many black americans have better lives than other blacks around the world, but it's not good enough. And PLEASE don't allow yourself to believe that you had anything to do with it. And what's so bad about being left alone in Africa? If Whitey never sailed his a*s over there, we'd be just fine.
  
  And while you say blacks would "otherwise be living in Ghana, Senegal, Ivory Coast, Nigeria, etc." you should otherwise be living in Europe, don't you think? Native American Indians are supposed to be roaming this land, not you and me. Instead, Europeans did what they do best: Kill off people, claim the stolen land as theirs and then complain about it years later. If white people would have just accepted the world the way it was in the first place, you wouldn't even be asking this question.
  
  You'd still be in your cave.
  
  
  
  
  A QUICK RESPONSE TO YOUR ADDITIONAL COMMENTS:
  
  Directly after slavery was indeed worse for many blacks because many blacks were dependent of being fed, clothed and housed by the slavemasters. Picture someone who has not had the life experience to go out and make a life for themselves and then halfway through their lives you tell them, "Ok. You're free to go." It's just not a smooth transition. Now granted that slave conditions were not luxury in any sense, it was better than nothing. Freed slaves were generally homeless, hungry and obviously poor. In fact, many of them asked to go back to the plantation because the quality of life was at least a little better. Countless others got trapped in the mal-intent cycle of indentured servitude, in which they could never pay off their debts. I do think that is indeed worse off, at least initally afterward. Not to mention the "black codes" that were drafted to keep blacks in the "inferior" postition.
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Codes…
• Gblock

  also half of this country went to war because they didnt want blacks to have equal rights, half of this country if put to a vote would probably go back to jim crow. It wasnt like people wanted to give blacks equal rights. they had to march, fight, get beat, lynched and locked up for many years. it wasnt just handed to them
• ernest_t_bass

  

  Fly4Fun;1397077 wrote:No, just no.

  You'd rather be homeless than my slave?
• FatHobbit

  

  Sleeper has to be just stirring the pot at this point.
• Gblock

  FatHobbit;1397173 wrote:Sleeper has to be just stirring the pot at this point.

  sleeper and etb
• ernest_t_bass

  

  Gblock;1397175 wrote:sleeper and etb

  I haven't, really. The question I asked in my original post was actually a legitimate question.
• sleeper

  

  BoatShoes;1397159 wrote:This thread is amazing! A freedom loving libertarian such as your fake internet personality ought to know that freedom in squalor (which Africa was not in at the time anyway as European invaders like the portuguese were often repelled prior to the 1800s) is preferable to comfortable bondage (which slavery was absolutely not!)
  
  The competing African tribes were encouraged to go to war with one another and supply slaves to satisfy the demand of Europeans seeking slaves, more so than anything else. It was all a by-product of European exploitation...you either had to sell slaves to the Europeans or become a Slave to the Europeans.
  
  Africa had a lot of natural resources that invading Europeans and Westerners seeking slaves sought to exploit. They most certainly would've been better of using the resources for themselves and their posterity as opposed to having them extracted by conquerors and turned to into slaves.

  Exactly. They had the option of being sold or being killed. Only a delusional liberal with no life would chose the latter.
• sleeper

  

  Gblock;1397171 wrote:also half of this country went to war because they didnt want blacks to have equal rights, half of this country if put to a vote would probably go back to jim crow. It wasnt like people wanted to give blacks equal rights. they had to march, fight, get beat, lynched and locked up for many years. it wasnt just handed to them

  And they rightfully lost. Time to grow up. This ain't the 1850's anymore.
• Raw Dawgin' it

  

  ernest_t_bass;1397172 wrote:You'd rather be homeless than my slave?

  lol so many slavery and family jokes to make....
• Gblock

  sleeper;1397181 wrote:And they rightfully lost. Time to grow up. This ain't the 1850's anymore.

  1850? PFFFSSHHH.. how bout 1950, 1960, even 1970s...
• ernest_t_bass

  

  Raw Dawgin' it;1397184 wrote:lol so many slavery and family jokes to make....

  Get on this, Fly 4 Fun. Personal attack!