How Much Trouble Is OSU and Tressel in Now?!
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vball10setWebFire;712862 wrote:You must be jealous.
yeah, you got me...have a great day (9-1)
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FatHobbit
WebFire;712863 wrote:Also, forgot a few things there...vacating wins/seasons/championships, taking banners down, no contact with university for 10 years, firing the coach, reduced scholarships, banned from postseason, etc. You make it sound like UM got off with no penalty.
The thing that always pisses me off about that is that the cheaters (players who took money) don't really suffer. They just move on with their lives while the Universities are left with the mess. -
vball10setFatHobbit;712872 wrote:The thing that always pisses me off about that is that the cheaters (players who took money) don't really suffer. They just move on with their lives while the Universities are left with the mess.
...as well as the players that are still there -
thedynasty1998
vball10set;712859 wrote:his lack of a personal apology for his alleged "lone" involvement in all of this screams cover-up--JMO
This is what is really bothersome to me. His punishment required a public apology, and I don't think he's every truly said he was sorry.
Also, you can't compare the actions of a player to a coach. Coaches are held to a much higher standard. -
WebFireFatHobbit;712872 wrote:The thing that always pisses me off about that is that the cheaters (players who took money) don't really suffer. They just move on with their lives while the Universities are left with the mess.
I agree. I'm not sure how you punish a player in that case, when they are already gone. Also, I'm not sure how you punish a school after the fact without affecting the current kids. -
Fidmeisterbases_loaded;712763 wrote: -Players selling their own private fucking property...suspend them for life.
This is what trips me up every time, because the people saying it was their own property are, IMO, missing a key point in why the NCAA regulates this crap.
Let's say the NCAA stops forbidding players from selling this stuff. We let them sell whatever they want, whenever we want to whomever they want. Set up a cash register in guys houses/dorm rooms/apartments just to make sure transactions go properly.
That would, without a doubt, lead to even worse agent-related activity. Suddenly, Terrelle Pryor owns his own tattoo parlor because he's getting 15-20 grand for shoelaces, Matt Barkley's knocking back 50 grand for a practice t-shirt and Andrew Luck's getting 100 grand for a jock strap, all accompanied with a wink and the chance to sign the guy when he goes to the NFL.
It's a rule for a reason. Those guys knew it was a rule and violated the fuck out of it. Jim Tressel knew it was a rule, had information about two of his best players breaking it, and said nothing. He even signed a form from the NCAA indicating that he knew no more than he told them, even while knowing he was lying when he signed the form.
If you want to argue that the NCAA has some of the stupidest rules we could see, I'm with ya all the way. They really could update every bylaw in that rulebook and be much better off. But you don't get to break rules just because you think they're dumb anymore than you get to neglect laws you disagree with.
We don't know why, ultimately, Jim Tressel decided to stay quiet, even after the resolution of the federal case in June. Could have been trying to protect the players. Could have not really understood the laws at hand. Could have thought the suspension those players would face might cost his team a national title. In the end, Tressel's the only one who knows and he's sure as shit not saying. He will go down as the only coach to break Bylaw 10-1 who does not lose his job.
Ohio State is comfortable with its decision. We are most definitely allowed to think the punishment is too light because it doesn't fit similar situations. It feels a little arbitrary. But, it is what it is. I believe the NCAA will add to it. If Dez Bryant misses a whole season for lying about lunch, the Tattoo Five lose five games and Tressel misses two, it feels uneven. -
dwccrew
Fidmeister;713721 wrote:This is what trips me up every time, because the people saying it was their own property are, IMO, missing a key point in why the NCAA regulates this crap.
Let's say the NCAA stops forbidding players from selling this stuff. We let them sell whatever they want, whenever we want to whomever they want. Set up a cash register in guys houses/dorm rooms/apartments just to make sure transactions go properly.
That would, without a doubt, lead to even worse agent-related activity. Suddenly, Terrelle Pryor owns his own tattoo parlor because he's getting 15-20 grand for shoelaces, Matt Barkley's knocking back 50 grand for a practice t-shirt and Andrew Luck's getting 100 grand for a jock strap, all accompanied with a wink and the chance to sign the guy when he goes to the NFL.
It's a rule for a reason. Those guys knew it was a rule and violated the fuck out of it. Jim Tressel knew it was a rule, had information about two of his best players breaking it, and said nothing. He even signed a form from the NCAA indicating that he knew no more than he told them, even while knowing he was lying when he signed the form.
If you want to argue that the NCAA has some of the stupidest rules we could see, I'm with ya all the way. They really could update every bylaw in that rulebook and be much better off. But you don't get to break rules just because you think they're dumb anymore than you get to neglect laws you disagree with.
We don't know why, ultimately, Jim Tressel decided to stay quiet, even after the resolution of the federal case in June. Could have been trying to protect the players. Could have not really understood the laws at hand. Could have thought the suspension those players would face might cost his team a national title. In the end, Tressel's the only one who knows and he's sure as shit not saying. He will go down as the only coach to break Bylaw 10-1 who does not lose his job.
Ohio State is comfortable with its decision. We are most definitely allowed to think the punishment is too light because it doesn't fit similar situations. It feels a little arbitrary. But, it is what it is. I believe the NCAA will add to it. If Dez Bryant misses a whole season for lying about lunch, the Tattoo Five lose five games and Tressel misses two, it feels uneven.
Pretty sure Dez Bryant didn't lose a WHOLE season. I think he lost the remainder of what was left in his final season. Correct me if I am wrong. I may not remember correctly. -
vball10setvery interesting article. and it goes right along with a point I posted earlier--something's just not right about this whole thing...
http://the-ozone.net/football/2011/Tresselaffair/tresselspecutlation.html -
vball10setvery interesting article, and it goes right along with a point I posted earlier--something's just not right about this whole thing...
http://the-ozone.net/football/2011/Tresselaffair/tresselspecutlation.html
Tressel’s Words Leave Room for Speculation
By Brandon Castel
It has been nearly 10 days since Jim Tressel stood in front of the world to admit he had violated NCAA rules by not reporting the emails he received back in April of 2010. Since then, it has been discovered that the author of those emails was attorney Christopher Cicero, a former walk-on linebacker at Ohio State.
After an initial uproar, the national buzz has started to subside—at least for the time being—but that doesn’t mean things have slowed down for Ohio State’s Head Coach.
Despite the fact his reputation as an ethical and principled man coaching in a den of iniquity has taken a serious hit since the scandal broke, Tressel did not cancel his scheduled speaking engagements around the state of Ohio this week.
He simply tweaked his message.
The 58-year old Tressel first appeared in Canton at a luncheon sponsored by the Pro Football Hall of Fame on Monday where he spoke about handling adversity. He also apologized to “Buckeye Nation” for “what we’ve been through.”
Tressel also made an appearance at the Defense Supply Center in Columbus on East Broad Street. There he spoke primarily about leadership and servant-hood.
“It’s our task to grow future leaders in a time that is a little bit more difficult,” Tressel told those at the DSCC Tuesday.
“This will be my 37th year of college coaching. It’s changed. Young people haven’t changed too dramatically. They still want to know that you care for them. They still want to know what you expect of them. They still want to be evaluated. I think at this point in time, they want to know ‘why’ a little bit more than they used to.”
Much like his first public appearance, Tressel was greeted with nothing but applause from the group, which included mostly active military, federal contractors and members of the Defense Logistics Agency.
He did not speak much on his personal situation because of the ongoing NCAA investigation, but what he did say left plenty of room for speculation.
“We are in a situation right now that I didn't get as wise of counsel as I should have,” Tressel said Tuesday.
“And so I am accountable for a leadership action that I took. But that's part of being a leader. And when you are a leader, and you are a servant, you look it right in the eyes, you learn, you know what you should do, you are reminded that you should always seek wise counsel, and then you go forward.”
The idea that Tressel faces a two-game suspension and $250,000 fine because he received poor counsel runs contradictory to the assertion that he failed to inform anyone of the potential violations contained in Cicero’s emails. During his initial press conference Tressel was asked whether he forwarded those emails, which specifically mentioned Terrelle Pryor and DeVier Posey. He began to nod his head ‘yes’ before he was cut off by Ohio State Athletic Director Gene Smith. Tressel even went as far as to say “mmhmm” before Smith intervened.
“We can’t get into that right now,” Smith said back on March 7th.
“That’s a detail in the case, I’m sorry, he can’t answer that one. That’s still a part of the NCAA case.”
If he did forward the email to someone, or share its contents, it may very well be the person who offered poor counsel to Tressel on how to handle the situation. Dating back to the initial press conference, Tressel has never directly admitted to keeping the information a secret for eight months.
“I'm sincerely saddened by the fact that I let some people down, and didn't do things as well as I could possibly do,” he said on March 7th.
“Obviously I'm disappointed that this happened at all. I take my responsibility for what we do at Ohio State tremendously seriously, and for the game of football. And obviously I planned to grow from this.”
At the very least, Tressel’s words open the door for plenty of questions.
Did Tressel share the information, but with the wrong person or persons? That would fit the description of "not doing things as well I possibly could do"?
If Tressel did forward the email to legal counsel, was it his own personal counsel, or that of the university? Or did he forward it through the "chain of command" within the University?
Did the poor advice come from someone at Ohio State—whether it be his boss, the compliance department or a university lawyer—or was it an outside source?
Is it possible that he forwarded the email to one person, then, if they sat on it, he sought counsel and got poor advice on how to proceed from someone entirely different?
If he did seek advice, exactly when did he seek it. Was it after the first email exchange, during the two-week gap before Cicero mentioned confidentiality, or was it after the final email exchange in June?
Whether he forwarded the email or not, it is obvious that Tressel intends to bear all responsibility for the wrongdoing.
“You've got to take responsibility and you've got to move forward. That's what being a leader and a servant is,” Tressel said Tuesday.
“And if you really are a leader, you will never quit. I don't care if there is 30 seconds left in the game and we're down by 10 points, a leader will never quit.”
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Fidmeisterdwccrew;713767 wrote:Pretty sure Dez Bryant didn't lose a WHOLE season. I think he lost the remainder of what was left in his final season. Correct me if I am wrong. I may not remember correctly.
Bryant played three games, my bad. -
j_crazy
Fidmeister;714421 wrote:Bryant played three games, my bad.
bryant was a junior FWIW. i doubt he'd have come back to school anyway, but that's not the debate here. -
elbuckeye28I see a lot of comparisons to other instances so I'll address my feelings on these all in this post.
1. Dez Bryant First of all, the NCAA ruling in the Dez Bryant case was one of the most absurd rulings I have ever seen come down from them (and they have made some headscratchers). The thing is Dez Bryant did lie to investigators and it does not appear that Tressel lied to investigators. That being said, I think the NCAA will look back at the Bryant case and realize that their decision was universally criticized and unjust. The NCAA has shown that they are willing to look at precedents that they have set, reexamine the intended and unintended consequences of the decision, and set a new precedent accordingly. There is a reason that the NCAA has not used the death penalty in recent years, even though there are programs that were prime candidates for it. They realized how much the punishment truly affected SMU and are cautious to apply that penalty
Bruce Pearl-this is the one that really bothers me.
1. Bruce Pearl actually committed the infraction in question by throwing that BBQ and having recruits present.
2. Pearl then did not report the infraction.
3. Pearl then lied to and deceived the NCAA over these infractions.
4. There are the football related issues with Lane Kiffin that may or may not play a role, but this was one of the reasons that USC was so harshly penalized(Bush and Mayo).
Out of those three, Tressel's violation comes from the lack of reporting. He did not commit the initial violation and it does not appear that he actually lied to investigators. Additionally, while Pearl was suspended for 8 games, Tennessee played 33 games(two in SEC tournament). That means that 1 game in football=a little more than 2.5 games in basketball. Not to mention, in most years, 1 loss is enough to eliminate a team for National Championship contention. In basketball a team can lose 13 games like Tennesee did and still make the tournament. -
LJ
Bruce Hooley confirmed fired on 610 today. They are going to have him on at 5:06 if anyone is interested in listening -
karen lotz
www.610wtvn.com
Is there a reason? Just because he was critical of Tressel? His twitter says it was a mutual agreement. -
j_crazy
LJ;715537 wrote:Bruce Hooley confirmed fired on 610 today. They are going to have him on at 5:06 if anyone is interested in listening
never heard of him, how is this related to tressel?
just curious btw, not trying to be snooty. -
LJ
karen lotz;715569 wrote:www.610wtvn.com
Is there a reason? Just because he was critical of Tressel? His twitter says it was a mutual agreement.
Dunno, Corby kept saying "fired" on the air. -
LJ
j_crazy;715577 wrote:never heard of him, how is this related to tressel?
just curious btw, not trying to be snooty.
Some of us were complaining about his attitude last week in this thread -
karen lotz
j_crazy;715577 wrote:never heard of him, how is this related to tressel?
just curious btw, not trying to be snooty.
He hosts a talk show on The Fan in Columbus and he has been critical of Tressel/OSU in regards to the whole situation. -
LJ
karen lotz;715585 wrote:He hosts a talk show on The Fan in Columbus and he has been critical of Tressel/OSU in regards to the whole situation.
He's hated Tressel since he was hired. He was vocal about it being a bad hire and that OSU should have hired Glen Mason.
The Common Man and Torg have had the same type of sentiments as Hooley, but they have worded what they were saying in a much less snotty/arrogant way. -
Midstate01
Not gonna read through this whole thread. But I gotta think the fan had to let him go. You know osu Is probably feeding them money or giving them some serious access to their programs. So they could easily just say, this is the guy who represents your station?? Continually trashing the university?? Hooley was terrible anyway. It's addition by subtraction here. -
karen lotz
He wasn't on. Said he didn't want to pay lawyer fees in the event The Fan wanted to pursue action for him speaking his mind.
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Fly4Fun
Was Hooley the one that had the show with Spielman? If so I'm glad. That guy annoyed me. -
elbuckeye28
I decided to google Hooley's name and found a recent article written by him. A very hackish article that lays out interpretations as facts to fit his agenda. Just another example of poor journalism that has become the norm.LJ;715599 wrote:He's hated Tressel since he was hired. He was vocal about it being a bad hire and that OSU should have hired Glen Mason.
The Common Man and Torg have had the same type of sentiments as Hooley, but they have worded what they were saying in a much less snotty/arrogant way. -
Fidmeister[QUOTE=elbuckeye28;715496
Out of those three, Tressel's violation comes from the lack of reporting. He did not commit the initial violation and it does not appear that he actually lied to investigators.[/QUOTE]
He signed a form that said to the NCAA that he knew no more than he told them, all the while knowing that he didn't tell them the truth. So, yeah, it looks to me like he lied to them.
In his case, he committed the initial violation by breaking Bylaw 10-1.