Senate Bill 5 Targets Collective Bargaining for Elimination!

• ernest_t_bass

  

  I Wear Pants;698286 wrote:People usually say that it sucks that they're laid off or take a pay cut though. They don't act like it's some great injustice because they understand the reality of the situation.

  
  Did you see where I said that I UNDERSTAND the reality of the situation? I'm just scared... real scared. I get no sympathy for being scared?
• LJ

  

  ernest_t_bass;698291 wrote:I've been discussing it with some people. I think there will be different options. They can't "mandate" it, but they can say, "If you want to be a part of STRS, you need to pay 28%. If you can't do that, here is your money."
  
  I think that public workers may also have the option to pay into SS, but the BOE would have to pick up their 7.whatever% as well. It's all in its infant stages, so I am still very uncertain.

  
  If it is optional look for a 401k system to be added with a small supplemental pension and paying into SSDI
• Con_Alma

  ernest_t_bass;698292 wrote:.... I get no sympathy for being scared?

  You may or may not. Why does that matter at all?
• ernest_t_bass

  

  Con_Alma;698290 wrote:Why would sympathy from others be important to me if I got laid off from my job.
  
  Others views or opinions of my personal situation has no bearing on my state of being at all currently. Can you help me understand why I should place importance on other's view of me being laid off?

  
  Would you expect someone to say to you, in the event of taking a pay cut or being laid off, "YOU DESERVE IT!"
• FatHobbit

  

  Jesus, there are some unsympathetic people here. I do feel bad for everyone who had to take a paycut or lost their job through no fault of their own. It does suck!
• Con_Alma

  ernest_t_bass;698295 wrote:Would you expect someone to say to you, in the event of taking a pay cut or being laid off, "YOU DESERVE IT!"

  
  As honest as I can possible be I would have no interest whatsoever what someone else said. I has no impact on my situation.
• ernest_t_bass

  

  Con_Alma;698294 wrote:You may or may not. Why does that matter at all?

  
  I don't know, I guess I'm just looking for some good in people. When a factory closed down recently in town, I shared a lot of sympathy with kids and parents, because I knew that the times were very hard for them.
  
  I don't NEED sympathy, but I also don't understand the negative comments as well.
• ernest_t_bass

  

  Con_Alma;698302 wrote:As honest as I can possible be I would have no interest whatsoever what someone else said. I has no impact on my situation.

  
  Can you and I agree to disagree, then?
• Con_Alma

  ernest_t_bass;698304 wrote:Can you and I agree to disagree, then?

  
  I''m not sure what we would be disagreeing on. ???
  
  Why would you be asking for sympathy? You may not agree with others who offer disdain but to scold others for not offering sympathy is perplexing to me...so I ask why are you seeking it?
• ernest_t_bass

  

  Con_Alma;698307 wrote:I''m not sure what we would be disagreeing on. ???
  
  Why would you be asking for sympathy? You may not agree with others who offer disdain but to scold others for not offering sympathy is perplexing to me...so I ask why are you seeking it?

  
  Because I prefer sympathy... or hell, even empathy, towards the situation I am going through over the disdain. Duh.
  
  What would you prefer... and handshake and a hug, or a kick to the nuts?
• I Wear Pants

  ernest_t_bass;698292 wrote:Did you see where I said that I UNDERSTAND the reality of the situation? I'm just scared... real scared. I get no sympathy for being scared?

  I think you're far more scared than you should be though. You're automatically assuming the worst possible scenario.
• bases_loaded

  

  Don't be a shitty teacher you won't have anything to worry about. If you get laid off its because you aren't needed. If you aren't needed you are waste....waste cost money...money we don't have...you're a teacher you should be able to figure this out, or is that not in the answer key?
• Fab4Runner

  

  I have sympathy for any family/person going through hard times. I am going through hard times. That doesn't mean I feel bad that they will have to pay more for their benefits.
• Con_Alma

  ernest_t_bass;698309 wrote:Because I prefer sympathy... or hell, even empathy, towards the situation I am going through over the disdain. Duh.
  
  What would you prefer... and handshake and a hug, or a kick to the nuts?

  
  Preferring it and seeking it out are different things.
  
  When you seek it out and don't get it you have the response you currently have. Why create that potential?
  
  As to your question, a handshake or a kick in the nuts isn't the only option. You have the choice of not accepting either. I prefer that when it comes to other people's opinion on my employment situation.
  
  I am not suggesting you take my position I am asking why you choose yours. Why does it matter if someone is sympathetic to you or not? It has no impact whatsoever from what I can discern.
• bigkahuna

  ernest_t_bass;698241 wrote:The bottom line to all of this (in my eyes) and the most disheartening thing is this; the insensitivity from people is extremely overwhelming, and somewhat hypocritical.
  
  There ARE teachers that agree with many portions of this bill. There ARE teachers that agree that poor teachers should be eliminated, and easier. There ARE teachers that are sick of big union dues and union rhetoric. There ARE teachers out there are sympathetic to many of the people in our own communities who have lost there jobs. Sympathy is the last thing we are receiving.
  
  I understand (you need to read that again, and read it out loud... I UNDERSTAND) that the budget needs to be balanced, that education has flaws, etc. Something needs to be done. Hell, maybe this whole SB5 thing needs to be done... I don't know, I'm not an expert on budget balancing, etc.
  
  The part that is overwhelmingly saddening is to see our own people lacking sympathy to the fact that we will be taking huge hits coming home in our paychecks. YES, it is how the market works. YES, when the money is not there, something needs to be done.
  
  If ANY of you said that you could possibly lose $500/month of take home pay, I CANNOT begin to imagine coming on here and saying any of these things:
  
  "It's about time!"
  "Sucks to be you, but that's the free market!"
  "Welcome to the real world!"
  "Suck it up and live with it!"
  "You've had it coming to you!"
  
  Can you imagine, for one second, going to a factory that is closing down and saying those very same things to people losing their jobs? Regardless of SB5, teachers, unions, public workers, etc. Regardless of the people being affected by this, can you not just step outside of your angry attitude and form just the slightest bit of sympathy for employees (over the entire state, mind you) that will be taking huge hits. Can you treat us measly public workers as real human beings, breathing the same air as those factory workers?
  
  I'm for a lot of the things in this bill, I truly am. Here is what scares me:
  
  Insurance go from 10% to 20% - Extra $110 per month for me
  Pension go from 10% to possible 28% - Extra $550-600 per month for me.
  
  I could lose up to $700 per month of take home pay (worst case scenario), and many other employees around the state of Ohio could see similar cuts, some more, some less. Our families will struggle, that's an understatement. And you have the audacity to just say those things?
  
  Again, I CANNOT even imagine, one bit, going to a closing business and saying those things. The realities of this bill are harsh enough. Why do we need our fellow citizens tearing us down even more? I am human too.

  
  I didn't want this to get lost in the pages. This pretty sums up the way I feel about the situation and probably most who are against SB5
• Prescott

  You're automatically assuming the worst possible scenario

  .
  This.....The American people will rebel in your behalf if you are treated unfairly. What is being proposed is not unfair considering the state of the economy.The sky is not falling.
• wkfan

  Prescott;698331 wrote:.
  This.....The American people will rebel in your behalf if you are treated unfairly.

  You have far more faith in the majority of the people of this state and country regarding this than I do....just see many of the posts in this thread.
• derek bomar

  

  wkfan;698201 wrote:Which is your choice.......until recently, a teacher was required to obtain a Master's degree as a stipulation to retain their license....which my wife did.....at our expense.

  
  I know it's my choice. His post sounded to me like he was insinuating teachers work harder than the private sector (going to school, taking classes, etc...).
• Prescott

  You have far more faith in the majority of the people of this state and country regarding this than I do.

  I guess I do.
• I Wear Pants

  wkfan;698332 wrote:You have far more faith in the majority of the people of this state and country regarding this than I do....just see many of the posts in this thread.

  
  Most of the posts you're talking about are only aggressive in their disdain for teachers because from the beginning of this most of them have been jumping to conclusions and assuming the absolute worst of what this bill could do.
• wkfan

  derek bomar;698333 wrote:I know it's my choice. His post sounded to me like he was insinuating teachers work harder than the private sector (going to school, taking classes, etc...).

  I took it as the differnece in being required to obtain a graduate degree versus those who are not....
• ernest_t_bass

  

  Con_Alma;698321 wrote:I am not suggesting you take my position I am asking why you choose yours. Why does it matter if someone is sympathetic to you or not? It has no impact whatsoever from what I can discern.

  
  Because sympathy provides just the slightest bit of comfort. Comfort is nice. If my dad dies, someone giving me a hug (who has lost a father) will provide more comfort than someone who had an absent dad saying "Deal with it."
• wkfan

  I Wear Pants;698335 wrote:Most of the posts you're talking about are only aggressive in their disdain for teachers because from the beginning of this most of them have been jumping to conclusions and assuming the absolute worst of what this bill could do.

  I disgaree....there are far too many that state things like 'welcome to the real world', 'you deserve ehat you get', etc etc etc.
  
  My daughter in law is on a track to be an elementary school principal. Based on that, she 'shadows' principals and administrators in her district. She has seen proposed salary schedules that call for her salary to be cut by approximately 40%. This, coupled with paying significantly more for health insurance and the full pension allotment will more than likely cause my son (who is also a teacher) and daughter in law to have to sell their house...or find another line of work.
• Con_Alma

  Ernest
  
  Ahhh but you are not guaranteed it. When you seek it out you may not receive it and therefore potentially have an even greater disappointment and hurt. With that said I don't believe you can be upset at folks when they don't provide it.
  
  When you seek it out you either will receive it or you won't. You know that going in. To get upset at individuals when one of the two is provided, or not in this case, is confusing to me. Simply because not getting it from folks is not the desire you had doesn't mean you should be mad at those who didn't give it to you.
  
  Feeling a certain way has no bearing on the status of your employment. Feelings are not an important piece at all when it comes to rational decisions that you can make going forward in a positive manner.
• Writerbuckeye

  

  I Wear Pants;698335 wrote:Most of the posts you're talking about are only aggressive in their disdain for teachers because from the beginning of this most of them have been jumping to conclusions and assuming the absolute worst of what this bill could do.

  
  Yep. The tone of too many teacher posts was almost whining. It was a huge turnoff to me and others, I'm sure. Most people on here have had to bear hardships in their lives from their schooling to their jobs because of the economy that teachers have not to this point. The two do not come across well to the average reader.