Senate Bill 5 Targets Collective Bargaining for Elimination!

• bases_loaded

  

  tk421;697711 wrote:You really think the public is going to vote for allowing the unions to run over the taxpayers? 300,000 people are going to have special privileges and rights that the rest of Ohio doesn't have? I don't think so.
  
  I wish they would do this in every state. What I really wish for is no unions in this country at all. They aren't needed and do nothing but line their own pockets.

  
  That was my point...I keep seeing Fbook messages telling democrats to put it to public vote...ok do it..it'll pass by flying colors
• Writerbuckeye

  

  sleeper;697712 wrote:I'm glad it passed. Now I would like to see how they are going to evaluate a pay scale based on merit. This is the next important step to saving Ohio.
  
  To the teachers, welcome to the real world.

  
  I would hope each district is coming up with its own ways to determine merit raises. Why should it be one size fits all?
• derek bomar

  

  ccrunner609;697720 wrote:please...we are the real world. We have to deal with every kid that has parents that think we should raise them. We have to discipline kids over and over again that disrupt your kids education because the parents wont do anything and then they come in and bitch about it, we have to try to teach reading to kids that have underlying medical and ocular problems and their parents wont get them tested because they think the school should provide it, we have to deal with tons of kids wh's parents wont take their kids to doctors and get them tested for ADD, autism, asburgers and other disorders becasue they dont care.....
  
  You tell me how we get equal and fair merit out of this mess?

  
  well, for one, you get rid of automatic step raises and defined benefit plans...then you'd be at a start for fair and equal...
• sleeper

  

  ccrunner609;697720 wrote:
  You tell me how we get equal and fair merit out of this mess?

  
  I believe there is an entire thread on it. Schools will figure it out, but I ultimately believe teachers need to be evaluated by their students, their co-workers, their administration, and the parents of said children. This is done by simple evaluation forms, much like they do in college.
  
  That is just one idea, good luck. You'll be okay, don't worry.
• sleeper

  

  ccrunner609;697732 wrote:LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL....kids evaluating teachers, how about we evaluate the students and the ones we dont like we can get rid of?

  
  Seems to work just fine in college.
• LJ

  

  ccrunner609;697735 wrote:fair and equal....to what? Someone punching a timeclock at the local factory? Someone that works in the "private sector?"
  
  When they have to get a masters degree and go to school and take more classes to renew their license then we can talk about fair and equal.

  
  CPA's
  Veterinarians (they have to go to school 8 years actually, out of pocket)
  CFA's
  need I go on?
• imex99

  

  sleeper;697741 wrote:Seems to work just fine in college.

  
  Do you know how many college students take those evaluations serious, not many!!!!
  
  Now, what about merit raises for police & fire? How many burning buildings they enter or how many speeding tickets, DUI, drug busts they get in a month?
• Writerbuckeye

  

  ccrunner609;697720 wrote:please...we are the real world. We have to deal with every kid that has parents that think we should raise them. We have to discipline kids over and over again that disrupt your kids education because the parents wont do anything and then they come in and bitch about it, we have to try to teach reading to kids that have underlying medical and ocular problems and their parents wont get them tested because they think the school should provide it, we have to deal with tons of kids wh's parents wont take their kids to doctors and get them tested for ADD, autism, asburgers and other disorders becasue they dont care.....
  
  You tell me how we get equal and fair merit out of this mess?

  
  I agree that you shouldn't have to deal with lots of those things unless you are specifically being paid to do so. How about this? We abolish the public school system, issue vouchers, and let private schools be created for each and every need out there.
• Fab4Runner

  

  I'm seeing a lot of anger on Facebook, lol. I am not going to respond to any of them but I can't help but chuckle. I should just give them the link to this thread.
• stlouiedipalma

  It's a great day for Ohio! The budget has been balanced, the public unions have been busted, those greedy teachers have been knocked down a peg or two and there will now be a chicken in every pot.
  
  Congratulations for solving the woes of the Buckeye State!
  
  Now, who's next? Since this bill only solves a small fraction of the debt, which group will be the next to bleed a little?
• sleeper

  

  imex99;697763 wrote:Do you know how many college students take those evaluations serious, not many!!!!
  
  Now, what about merit raises for police & fire? How many burning buildings they enter or how many speeding tickets, DUI, drug busts they get in a month?

  I take mine seriously. The issue isn't students taking them seriously, the biggest issue is students failing to turn them in.
  
  How do you think it works in the private sector? Not everyone has jobs that have tangible numbers that managers can use to evaluate pay, but somehow they seem to find a way, and police/fire/teachers can do it too.
  
  This bill was good for Ohio, I'm glad it passed. Now I just want to see how everything plays out.
• CenterBHSFan

  

  Tin soldiers and Obama coming,
  We're finally on our own.
  This summer I hear the farting,
  Four dumps in Ohio.
  
  State Sen. Tom Niehaus accuses protesters of defecating in Statehouse: PolitiFact Ohio | cleveland.com
  

  
  "Unfortunately, we have documented instances where people defecated in the building. We have documented instances where they have written on the walls," Niehaus said. "This is the people’s house. I used to say treat it like it’s yours. Well, I don’t want it to be like it’s theirs if that’s the way they treat their own home."

  
  This kinda ties in with Major Sparks' post on the Wisconsin thread.
  
  Disgusting filthy animals.
• CenterBHSFan

  

  ccrunner609;697829 wrote:First off the unions have not been busted. They have sharper corners that they must negotiate around. Also, if you think the state budget was fixed on the backs of these unions you arent real smart. This is a drop in the fiscal budget.

  Unclench yourself. He was being sarcastic.
• LJ

  

  ccrunner609;697849 wrote:sure go on........you sited a few professions that probably all make more then teachers.

  
  Make more? yes
  More more per day? no
• I Wear Pants

  ccrunner609;697847 wrote:this isnt the place for sarcasm

  
  Lol, this isn't Serious Business bro.
• bases_loaded

  

  Reading from a book that has all the answers is supposed to pay more than saving lives?
• LJ

  

  ccrunner609;697878 wrote:not the teachers problem

  
  That doesn't even make sense.
  
  You said it's not fair and equal because of schooling and CE
  
  I just showed it is comparable to some professions
  
  No you say it's not the teacher's problem.
  
  Choose and argument and stick with it
• sleeper

  

  I think the hilarious notion in all of this is teachers(and all public employees) are now going to be making minimum wage and working in terrible conditions.
  
  The real question is, are teachers this ignorant, or are they just protecting their outrageous compensation package? If its the former, GTFO; if its the latter, selfish POS.
• bigkahuna

  sleeper;697594 wrote:At least you get paid for doing extra responsibilities. In the real world, if you're boss tells you to do something that's outside your scope of work, you do it.
  
  Teachers are spoiled. I hope the hammer comes down hard on these people, time for reality.

  
  It's the same thing in the fake teacher's world. The boss TELLS you to do something, you do it.
  
  We just started doing a program to promote positive healthy choices, I was told I had to implement it into my classroom, so I did. My lesson plans have to be submitted a month in advance because I was told they had to.
  
  You go in and say, "Hey, I want to do XYZ." For example, a friend of mine went and got certified as a licensed instructor for First Aid, so he could teach the faculty right there in the school. He is now supplemented for that.
  
  My wife works in the private sector as a nurse. Her boss told her she had to start doing incident reports, so she did. She also volunteered to do create and run inservices on an array of different things and was compensated for her extra work. It happens in the real world too, don't fool yourself.
• sleeper

  

  Ok I admit I was wrong.
• LJ

  

  bigkahuna;697896 wrote:It's the same thing in the fake teacher's world. The boss TELLS you to do something, you do it.
  
  We just started doing a program to promote positive healthy choices, I was told I had to implement it into my classroom, so I did. My lesson plans have to be submitted a month in advance because I was told they had to.
  
  You go in and say, "Hey, I want to do XYZ." For example, a friend of mine went and got certified as a licensed instructor for First Aid, so he could teach the faculty right there in the school. He is now supplemented for that.
  
  My wife works in the private sector as a nurse. Her boss told her she had to start doing incident reports, so she did. She also volunteered to do create and run inservices on an array of different things and was compensated for her extra work. It happens in the real world too, don't full yourself.

  
  The private sector has 2 types of employees
  Exempt and Non-Exempt
  
  Exempt are employees who work until the job is done and do whatever the boss asks for 1 flat rate per year
  
  Non-Exempt are employees who are paid hourly and are paid for every hour they are on the job.
  
  Some companies may offer a stipend to exempt employees for work that is typically considered outside their duties, but contractually, this isn't very common.
  
  Non-Exempt employees are obviously compensated for every extra hour they work.
• bigkahuna

  LJ;697905 wrote:The private sector has 2 types of employees
  Exempt and Non-Exempt
  
  Exempt are employees who work until the job is done and do whatever the boss asks for 1 flat rate per year
  
  Non-Exempt are employees who are paid hourly and are paid for every hour they are on the job.
  
  Some companies may offer a stipend to exempt employees for work that is typically considered outside their duties, but contractually, this isn't very common.
  
  Non-Exempt employees are obviously compensated for every extra hour they work.

  
  Right, and it is the same in the public sector.
  
  I work part time for 2 different districts.
  
  In one district, I'm considered exempt. In the other, I'm considered non.
• dwccrew

  

  wkfan;697012 wrote:Interesting that, when proven wrong, the arguement changes.....

  Please point out where I have been proven wrong? I was merely pointing out salaries. Also, was the original debate on total benefits package or salary alone? I honestly don't know because I wasn't a part of it, throughout this thread I have been debating the entire benefits package.
  

  ccrunner609;697732 wrote:LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL....kids evaluating teachers, how about we evaluate the students and the ones we dont like we can get rid of?

  
  You can, it's called expulsion.
  

  ccrunner609;697735 wrote:fair and equal....to what? Someone punching a timeclock at the local factory? Someone that works in the "private sector?"
  
  When they have to get a masters degree and go to school and take more classes to renew their license then we can talk about fair and equal.

  
  What does that have to do with anything? Please explain.....
  
  Teachers are supported by tax revenues, when the money isn't there what else?
  

  ccrunner609;697878 wrote:not the teachers problem

  
  And the passage of SB5 is not our problem.
• WebFire

  Writerbuckeye;697584 wrote:That's your comparison? How lame.
  
  True or not: just about every supplemental contract a teacher can get is for an activity that involves learning? Sports, year book, paper, plays. All related to what a teacher does best (supposedly), which is to teach and help kids learn. It's not in a classroom typically, but the basics of teaching and learning are the same.
  
  Why you folks are splitting hairs on this is somewhat telling, I guess. You simply don't want your salary to look too high (whatever that is) so you're trying to keep it as low as possible.
  
  It's lame, too, by the way.

  sleeper;697594 wrote:At least you get paid for doing extra responsibilities. In the real world, if you're boss tells you to do something that's outside your scope of work, you do it.
  
  Teachers are spoiled. I hope the hammer comes down hard on these people, time for reality.

  
  You nitwits. I'm not even a teacher. I am for SB5. But how can you not see this simple thing.
  
  Writer, learning has nothing to do with it. It's an extra job not part of your regular duties. You are compensated extra and separately. The end.
  
  Another example?
  
  Teacher A is a 6th grade math teacher and makes $50k.
  Teacher B is also a 6th grade math teacher and makes $50k.
  Teacher B is also the Head Varsity Football coach for $10k, Varsity track coach for $8k, and Junior Class Advisor for $3k.
  
  Who has the higher TEACHER salary?
• WebFire

  sleeper;697594 wrote:At least you get paid for doing extra responsibilities. In the real world, if you're boss tells you to do something that's outside your scope of work, you do it.
  
  Teachers are spoiled. I hope the hammer comes down hard on these people, time for reality.

  
  I also like how you took my private sector example and turned into an argument about how the real world works. :rolleyes: