Senate Bill 5 Targets Collective Bargaining for Elimination!

• Gblock

  Gblock;697068 wrote:in a public school for salary only?...i havent seen that. prove it and i will gladly take it back

  
  again i said before i commented were you talking about salary only.....obviously anyone can take on extra duties for more money. my challenge still stands for salary only...
• Gblock

  LJ;697117 wrote:False, but whatever you want to think.

  
  i just provided their salary schedule for you with a link
• LJ

  

  wkfan;697118 wrote:OK.....let me ask you this.
  
  What qualifies you to determine that this person is a teacher or not?

  
  Well, Disney decided when they nominated her for an award.
  
  An intervention specialist is defined as a teacher all over the internet. Who are you to decide that she isn't?
• LJ

  

  Gblock;697123 wrote:i just provided their salary schedule for you with a link

  
  WKfan said you cannot find a teacher who makes 100k. I proved you can. She is a teacher, she makes 100k.
• Gblock

  LJ;697070 wrote:I already did. Prove that the salary for the employee at Olentangy is not a teacher.

  
  well i proved that she gets paid for something other than teaching by providing their master agreement for teacher salary. which maxes at 96000 if you were in your 35th year with a masters degree and plus45 hours, but ok she made 105000 so did they just accidently pay her too much?
• LJ

  

  Gblock;697132 wrote:well i proved that she gets paid for something other than teaching by providing their master agreement for teacher salary. which maxes at 96000 if you were in your 35th year with a masters degree and plus45 hours, but ok

  
  You did not, you proved that is not her base. In the non-CBA world, salary is salary, not all this stipend shit
• bigkahuna

  wkfan;696967 wrote:I iwould be interested to see if they had it in their agreement....and still do.

  
  I think I took the class in the fall of 06 or spring of 07. If I can find it in my old school stuff, I'll confirm it. I'll see if I can find it online or something.
• LJ

  

  newsflash, no one gives a fuck what someone's base is, total salary is all we care about. And Wkfan never specified anything other than salary. Her salary is 100k, and she is a teacher.
  
  Point
  set
  match
• Gblock

  LJ;697142 wrote:newsflash, no one gives a fuck what someone's base is, total salary is all we care about. And Wkfan never specified anything other than salary. Her salary is 100k, and she is a teacher.
  
  Point
  set
  match

  that makes no sense...i have a salary...i get paid every two weeks...some years i coach a sport ie baseball....i get paid supplemental contract to coach it is not my salary it is on top of my salary and a seperate agreement. some years i dont coach anything and my salary stays the same if you dont understand that then...oh well im not going to argue
• bigkahuna

  LJ;697142 wrote:newsflash, no one gives a fuck what someone's base is, total salary is all we care about. And Wkfan never specified anything other than salary. Her salary is 100k, and she is a teacher.
  
  Point
  set
  match

  
  Not really because she could be doing a lot of different things on top of teaching. You're in a business correct? Do you get some kind of bonus for VOLUNTARILY taking on special projects or heading special committees? I know my mother does and she's most definitely in the private sector.
  
  Looks like you faulted.
• LJ

  

  Gblock;697148 wrote:that makes no sense...i have a salary...i get paid every two weeks...some years i coach a sport ie baseball....i get paid supplemental contract to coach it is not my salary it is on top of my salary and a seperate agreement. some years i dont coach anything and my salary stays the same if you dont understand that then...oh well im not going to argue

  
  Your total salary is what is listed
• LJ

  

  bigkahuna;697150 wrote:Not really because she could be doing a lot of different things on top of teaching. You're in a business correct? Do you get some kind of bonus for VOLUNTARILY taking on special projects or heading special committees? I know my mother does and she's most definitely in the private sector.
  
  Looks like you faulted.

  
  And we would call that her salary
• LJ

  

  I don't have anymore time for this today, but the point is, the facts are right in front of you that she is a teacher that makes $100k in salary in 2010. It's listed right there on the website. It is 100% fact.
• Gblock

  LJ;697160 wrote:I don't have anymore time for this today, but the point is, the facts are right in front of you that she is a teacher that makes $100k in salary in 2010. It's listed right there on the website. It is 100% fact.

  
  http://www.olentangyschools.net/pdf/OTATeachersContract.pdf FAIL
• redstreak one

  

  Its nothing but semantics gentlemen, if you step back both of you are right. Everyone feel better? Everyone reel in their manhood and lets get off this piece of the conversation! lol
• bigkahuna

  You're trying really hard and should be commended for it.
  
  Like I said, bonuses for extra voluntary duty are included just as they are in the private sector. In my experience, coaching a sport or something comes on a separate check. i.e. I get 1,000 check for coaching freshmen football. In the end, it's all added into one. It's the same thing as getting a profit sharing check, Christmas bonus.... You get it separately, but it all goes into the same W-2 at the end of the year.
  
  But, hey if it makes you feel better to think that there is a teacher out there making 105,000/year just for walking into a classroom at 730 and leaving at 330, then enjoy sleeping easy.
• fan_from_texas

  bigkahuna;697150 wrote: You're in a business correct? Do you get some kind of bonus for VOLUNTARILY taking on special projects or heading special committees?

  
  No, of course not. Last year, I put in 700 hours on non-client "extra" work (serving on committees, writing articles, attending classes, etc.) and didn't get paid a dime for it. Doing lots of "extra" work for free outside of a contract/job description is what professionals do.
  

  Gblock;697084 wrote:the reason it is so important is because if you get sued over an IEP and it has spelling errors on it you will lose the case and probably a 5 figure judgment.

  
  This seems like an urban legend to me. I'm extraordinarily skeptical that a typo in an IEP results in a five-figure judgment.
• Gblock

  fan_from_texas;697188 wrote:No, of course not. Last year, I put in 700 hours on non-client "extra" work (serving on committees, writing articles, attending classes, etc.) and didn't get paid a dime for it. Doing lots of "extra" work for free outside of a contract/job description is what professionals do.
  
  
  
  This seems like an urban legend to me. I'm extraordinarily skeptical that a typo in an IEP results in a five-figure judgment.

  as a former sped teacher in columbus there are a couple sets of lawyers who advertise in the hood and at several churches for people who are unhappy with their child's education. they then go and review every iep the child ever had. if there are any missing signitures or mistakes the judge will automatically find in favor of the plaintiff. i know a teacher and two adminitstrators who also got sued on top of the school lawsuit.
  
  years ago i used to write the IEP and if the parents came or not no big deal i just filed it. it used to be a formality really. that changed about 5-6 years ago. I know of at least 10-15 cases where the district settled for about 12000 per case. now we have more training and more scrutiny. all of the IEPs must be filed on time with no errors.
• bigkahuna

  fan_from_texas;697188 wrote:No, of course not. Last year, I put in 700 hours on non-client "extra" work (serving on committees, writing articles, attending classes, etc.) and didn't get paid a dime for it. Doing lots of "extra" work for free outside of a contract/job description is what professionals do.

  
  I'm going to respectfully disagree. There are plenty of people that I know that do similar things and get paid for it. Did your employer "force" you to do that extra work or did you sign up for it voluntarily?
  
  It might not be everyone in the private sector, but in my experiences in the private sector you are compensated for voluntary extra duties.
• QuakerOats

  semi-off topic:
  
  update on prior post above: The 'Oats has been reinstated on that 'other' website. The powers that be came to the rescue.
  
  
  I'm as gentle as a puppy ........ carry on ........
• Writerbuckeye

  

  All this hair splitting about what type of work comes under salary and what involves being a teacher.
  
  It doesn't help your argument, folks. If you take home over $100,000 over the course of your year of employment, you are making over $100,000. I don't give a shit if it's for lunchroom duty, coaching or whatever. The W2 will say it's salary and that is in fact what it is.
  
  To argue otherwise simply makes you look petty.
  
  As for the IEP TEACHER...just because she isn't in a classroom, does NOT mean she isn't a teacher. My nephew had an IEP teacher and she spent a LOT of time TEACHING him (tutoring on various subjects). How is that not being a teacher? It is, under anyone's reasonable definition of a teacher.
  
  This woman was very good at her job and helped my nephew a lot. I'd have nominated her for Teacher of the Year had the district had such a thing, and I have no doubt in my mind that she would have qualified.
  
  So stop splitting hairs and accept that some TEACHERS do, in fact, make that much money and more.
  
  It really doesn't change the bottom line of this argument in favor of SB5 for me: which is changing the system to bring sanity back to the negotiating table. It's beyond ridiculous how much a lot of teachers are earning (in salary and benefits) compared to what is the norm in the private sector -- you know, the people who have to pay these salaries and benefits.
  
  The system is broken and needs changed. We can't sustain this continued growth and stay fiscally solvent (I'm speaking of the state employees now) and school districts need more control over their major costs.
• WebFire

  Our school lists the base salary and supplementals separately at the Buckeye Institute. That site shows Dora making $105,093.00 in 2010. So, the question is, are they required to report base separately from other contracts, or is it different by district?
  
  FYI, our superintendent only makes $90k.
• WebFire

  Writerbuckeye;697222 wrote:All this hair splitting about what type of work comes under salary and what involves being a teacher.
  
  It doesn't help your argument, folks. If you take home over $100,000 over the course of your year of employment, you are making over $100,000. I don't give a shit if it's for lunchroom duty, coaching or whatever. The W2 will say it's salary and that is in fact what it is.
  
  To argue otherwise simply makes you look petty.
  

  
  Strongly disagree. That's like saying my IT salary at my FT job + coaching salary at the high school = my IT job salary.
  
  Teachers have the option to get paid for other activities. That is separate compensation. For SB5 arguments, you can't lump it together.
• Con_Alma

  WebFire;697245 wrote:... For SB5 arguments, you can't lump it together.

  For SB5 arguments they are negotiated via collective bargaining and are addressed in the respective contracts.
• fan_from_texas

  Gblock;697203 wrote:as a former sped teacher in columbus there are a couple sets of lawyers who advertise in the hood and at several churches for people who are unhappy with their child's education. they then go and review every iep the child ever had. if there are any missing signitures or mistakes the judge will automatically find in favor of the plaintiff. i know a teacher and two adminitstrators who also got sued on top of the school lawsuit.
  
  years ago i used to write the IEP and if the parents came or not no big deal i just filed it. it used to be a formality really. that changed about 5-6 years ago. I know of at least 10-15 cases where the district settled for about 12000 per case. now we have more training and more scrutiny. all of the IEPs must be filed on time with no errors.

  
  Requiring filing on time with the appropriate signatures makes sense. That's a far cry from getting sued over typos. I'm not sure this is relevant to the discussion in this thread, but at any rate, I'm certain that people aren't losing lawsuits over IEP typos.
  

  bigkahuna;697204 wrote:I'm going to respectfully disagree. There are plenty of people that I know that do similar things and get paid for it. Did your employer "force" you to do that extra work or did you sign up for it voluntarily?
  
  It might not be everyone in the private sector, but in my experiences in the private sector you are compensated for voluntary extra duties.

  
  My employer didn't "force" me to do it--there's a general understanding that, as a professional, I will do lots of work outside of what directly pays the bills. Going to seminars, networking, serving on committees, writing articles, etc.--all of these things are "extra" things that we do for no pay. I obviously can't speak for all people in the private sector, but in my experience, I don't think most people are paid extra for doing these sorts of voluntary actions.