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Senate Bill 5 Targets Collective Bargaining for Elimination!

  • bases_loaded
    Writerbuckeye;698348 wrote:Yep. The tone of too many teacher posts was almost whining. It was a huge turnoff to me and others, I'm sure. Most people on here have had to bear hardships in their lives from their schooling to their jobs because of the economy that teachers have not to this point. The two do not come across well to the average reader.

    The turnoff for me was all the scare tactics being used. One person was complaining that the senators who voted for the bill make 200k a year...talk about not having a fucking clue! No one wants to discuss the issues only cry about how it affects them personally. Big picture: we will still have firefighters, policemen, and teachers. Students won't suffer and houses won't just burn to the ground all around us. Their might be less prick cops though...win win win
  • I Wear Pants
    There really should be a requirement of at least a bachelors degree to be a cop.
  • WebFire
    ernest_t_bass;698292 wrote:Did you see where I said that I UNDERSTAND the reality of the situation? I'm just scared... real scared. I get no sympathy for being scared?

    Few things...

    1. You don't know you will get a paycut. Until it is certain that you are, I am going to believe you won't. Because I really believe that.
    2. You don't know you are going to have to pay 28%, and again, I don't think you will.
    3. I think the public sector over-sensationalized this whole thing to the extreme, and threw out a lot of false "facts". So I think you'll see less sympathy, and may be some of the reason for the attitude about SB5 from the public sector.
    4. No one is going to feel sorry for you for paying 20% of your insurance costs. Some would be very grateful for that.

    I've said all along, that I don't blame the public sector workers for fighting this. Why wouldn't they? The problem is, they were fighting it for reasons of personal interest. Not because the bill was wrong or not needed.
  • WebFire
    I Wear Pants;698310 wrote:I think you're far more scared than you should be though. You're automatically assuming the worst possible scenario.

    Bingo! There is nothing to sympathize over right now. What happened to you Ernest?
  • ernest_t_bass
    Webfire: I know... I provided a worst case scenario, and I stated that. I'm doing my best to stay optimistic.
  • ernest_t_bass
    I also am in an expendable (elective class) position, so I am more realistic of the changes than, say... our Chem teacher, who teaches an AP class of 2 students.
  • bases_loaded
    ernest_t_bass;698376 wrote:I also am in an expendable (elective class) position, so I am more realistic of the changes than, say... our Chem teacher, who teaches an AP class of 2 students.

    Oh so we're supposed to feel bad that you might lose your job because you are essentially not needed? I do not want to see anyone lose their job, but if you are wasting money then you have little sympathy from me.
  • ernest_t_bass
    bases_loaded;698385 wrote:Oh so we're supposed to feel bad that you might lose your job because you are essentially not needed? I do not want to see anyone lose their job, but if you are wasting money then you have little sympathy from me.

    I teach business. Accounting, Economics, Intro to Business, Computers. Am I needed? Business is the #1 major at colleges.
  • ernest_t_bass
    bases_loaded;698385 wrote:but if you are wasting money then you have little sympathy from me.

    Can I ask you, is a teacher teaching 2 students (regardless of subject) wasting money?
  • bases_loaded
    ernest_t_bass;698388 wrote:I teach business. Accounting, Economics, Intro to Business, Computers. Am I needed? Business is the #1 major at colleges.

    You are not needed in high school. You are needed in college where people go to further their education. College isn't a right its a choice. High school is to give students a base. What they use that base for is up to them.
  • bases_loaded
    ernest_t_bass;698390 wrote:Can I ask you, is a teacher teaching 2 students (regardless of subject) wasting money?

    Is he/she only teaching two students one subject. Rather is he/she ONLY teaching TWO students all day/month/year?
  • Con_Alma
    ernest_t_bass;698390 wrote:Can I ask you, is a teacher teaching 2 students (regardless of subject) wasting money?

    ...not if the taxpayers agree that they want it above and beyond the minimal education required by the State and are willing to pay for it.
  • FatHobbit
    bases_loaded;698391 wrote:You are not needed in high school. You are needed in college where people go to further their education. College isn't a right its a choice. High school is to give students a base. What they use that base for is up to them.

    you're right. Computers are over rated. I don't want my kids to no nuttin but readin ritin and rithmatik.
  • bases_loaded
    FatHobbit;698400 wrote:you're right. Computers are over rated. I don't want my kids to no nuttin but readin ritin and rithmatik.

    Computers shouldn't be an elective but the English teacher should be teaching them how to use Word/Powerpoint...the math teacher Excel..etc...boom just saved some school 40-50k
  • I Wear Pants
    ernest_t_bass;698388 wrote:I teach business. Accounting, Economics, Intro to Business, Computers. Am I needed? Business is the #1 major at colleges.

    Definitely. Unless you suck (likely :) ) I don't see you losing your job.
  • Bigdogg
    Surprised that there is not much discussion on the shenanigans it took to actually pass this piece of crap legislation. Even the conservative Cincinnati Enquirer blasted the Republicans. No matter how you feel about this issue, is this the way we went to be governed in this state? Replace people on the commitee against it with people that will vote as you want? Unbelievable!

    http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110303/EDIT01/103030341/1020/A-shameful-performance-SB5
  • Con_Alma
    Bigdogg..probably not but the end result is this:

    "...What's doubly shameful is that this process is tainting an overhaul of public employment practices that is eminently worthwhile and necessary - in fact, long overdue - ...

    The larger context here is that SB5, or something roughly like it, is desperately needed in Ohio - and not simply because the state has a looming $8 billion deficit. Collective-bargaining reform won't make a dent in that. The goal is long-term - to cut costs, allocate resources more smartly, encourage economic growth, and make state and local government and its employees more flexible, responsive to the public they serve.

    Senate President Tom Niehaus, R-New Richmond, said it "restores flexibility and fairness to the taxpayer. It is one piece of a larger plan to rein in the cost of government."

    Some leaders - local and state - have warned for years that steps would be necessary to reform public unions' relationship would be necessary. But public unions by and large have refused to yield on any of the powers they have accumulated, preferring instead to dare governments to reduce positions and lay off their younger members with less seniority. In most cases, governments - led by elected officials whose campaign success often is determined by public unions' support (or non-support) - haven't had the courage to do that kind of cutting. Remember what happened in Cincinnati late last year with the police and fire layoffs proposed by City Manager Milton Dohoney.

    At least the SB5 crisis is forcing all involved to acknowledge that Ohio can no longer avoid tough decisions..."

    http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2...erformance-SB5
  • O-Trap
    I Wear Pants;698363 wrote:There really should be a requirement of at least a bachelors degree to be a cop.
    Ender, GTFO!!!

    ;)
    ernest_t_bass;698376 wrote:I also am in an expendable (elective class) position, so I am more realistic of the changes than, say... our Chem teacher, who teaches an AP class of 2 students.
    Electives are, I think, far from expendable. Moreover, just because something isn't vital doesn't mean it isn't important, and should be provided if it can be at all afforded.
    ernest_t_bass;698388 wrote:I teach business. Accounting, Economics, Intro to Business, Computers. Am I needed? Business is the #1 major at colleges.
    Based on the way that most young people I see handle their finances, an economics class is VERY needed at the high school level.

    Hell, many of the economic ills faced by people can be attributed by their inability to know how to deal with their finances in ways that are historically proven to work.

    And let's be honest. Much of the debt that we (nation, state, or even local governing bodies) have incurred seems to have been the result of poor economic decisions.

    Business might be expendable. Economics is NOT.

    Also, I'm okay with a Computer class being an important elective. Some classes will have teachers equipped to teach some basic programs (ones that were around back before Y2K), but with the progressive importance that computers and digital networks are playing in business and life, I'd say that a Computer class that teaches something outside the MS Office Suite would be quite important. If it can't be afforded by the district, then I suppose it's not vital, but it's still important.
    bases_loaded;698391 wrote:You are not needed in high school. You are needed in college where people go to further their education. College isn't a right its a choice. High school is to give students a base. What they use that base for is up to them.
    I do think a base should include how to manage finances on your own. Thus, I still think Economics is incredibly valuable as a subject in high school. Damn-near vital, even.
    Con_Alma;698418 wrote:"... responsible to the public they serve."
    Fixed.
  • Belly35
    I'm all for BS5 and happy it passed ... kinda like “Pay to Play” glad those of you in the Public Sector are joining the rest of the team.
    Welcome to the real world ….
  • I Wear Pants
    Haha.
  • Skyhook79
    Bigdogg;698413 wrote:Surprised that there is not much discussion on the shenanigans it took to actually pass this piece of crap legislation. Even the conservative Cincinnati Enquirer blasted the Republicans. No matter how you feel about this issue, is this the way we went to be governed in this state? Replace people on the commitee against it with people that will vote as you want? Unbelievable!

    http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110303/EDIT01/103030341/1020/A-shameful-performance-SB5

    Whats so "unbelivable" about it? Would it have been better if they would have just offered the person removed a "Cornhusker kickback" or "Lousiana Purchased" his District from the Bill?
  • bigkahuna
    Belly35;698446 wrote:I'm all for BS5 and happy it passed ... kinda like “Pay to Play” glad those of you in the Public Sector are joining the rest of the team.
    Welcome to the real world ….

    This is what kills me, people are so delusional.

    Somehow the public sector lives and works in a fairy tale land full of gumdrops. I'd like to see that world because it's not in my job.
  • Gblock
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/03/02/AR2011030203236.html

    i agree with most of this article
  • Prescott
    The one thing I know for sure, however, is this: The future of the country depends on the public-sector workers known as teachers. That's because unless we dramatically improve our educational performance, America's standard of living will be at risk.
    Throwing more money at the public school systems will not yield better results. The problems that the education system faces in large urban school districts will not be solved by throwing money at prospective teachers.
  • Skyhook79

    Thats all well and good,and I do not disagree with everything the writer says, but he gives no solutions on how States are suppose to be able to pay Teachers more.
    To me that is part of the problem. We think throwing money at every problem is going to solve what is wrong. History has shown us that just does not work.
    It starts and ends in the Home and with each individual wanting to live productive lives and help his House,Town/City,County,State,Country to be a better place.