Senate Bill 5 Targets Collective Bargaining for Elimination!

• Con_Alma

  Prescott;698489 wrote:Throwing more money at the public school systems will not yield better results. The problems that the education system faces in large urban school districts will not be solved by throwing money at prospective teachers.

  
  I agree. An educational performance increase on a large scale won't be the result of teacher salaries or teacher quality.
  

  Skyhook79;698492 wrote:...
  It starts and ends in the Home and with each individual wanting to live productive lives and help his House,Town/City,County,State,Country to be a better place.

  
  Bingo
• Bigdogg

  Skyhook79;698462 wrote:Whats so "unbelivable" about it? Would it have been better if they would have just offered the person removed a "Cornhusker kickback" or "Lousiana Purchased" his District from the Bill?

  
  You can be sure it will be on the ballot so I don't think this is a done deal by a long shot. My fear is that real reform is no longer attainable because this has certainly energized the masses.
• ernest_t_bass

  

  Belly make me belly laugh.
• Bigdogg

  The Tea Party piles onto the process used to pass SB5. This is going to get really interesting.
  

  The Portage County TEA Party announced today that it condemns the move by Ohio Senate Republicans to replace Republican Senator Seitz with Republican Senator Hite to get Senate Bill 5 out of committee. After his replacement they then passed the bill out of committee by a 7-5 vote. Tom Zawistowski, Executive Director of the Portage County TEA Party said “Speaking as the leader of the Portage County TEA Party, I want to say that we condemn this type of political maneuvering, just as we condemned the same type of political maneuvering that the Democrats used last year to pass the Health Care bill. If they can not pass a bill based on it's merits, by getting even their own members to vote for it, then their is something wrong with the bill in the first place.

  Zawistowski went on to say, “In our opinion, the Republican Senate leadership has mismanaged this process from the beginning. While we support the fact that changes had to be made in the relationship between the tax payers and government workers, we also believe that the entire process needed to be more transparent and more inclusive from the beginning.

  http://www.portagecountyteaparty.com/news/front-page/pct-condemns-move-by-republicans.html
• bases_loaded

  

  So they agree with the passing of the bill...just not how the bill got to the floor...the end justifies the means.
• Bigdogg

  bases_loaded;698573 wrote:So they agree with the passing of the bill...just not how the bill got to the floor...the end justifies the means.

  
  Just like the Health Care legislation? Opinions are like you know what, everyone has one.
• bases_loaded

  

  With healthcare I don't agree with anything about it...so whats your point?
• QuakerOats

  Belly35;698446 wrote:I'm all for BS5 and happy it passed ... kinda like &#8220ay to Play” glad those of you in the Public Sector are joining the rest of the team.
  Welcome to the real world ….

  Yes, a warm welcome to all those who are productive members of the public sector group to the 'big dance'. You will find us to be a hospitable group focused on being productive day-in and day-out. If you earn your keep, it will help keep the stress levels to a minimum. Over time you will appreciate being on this side, and the value you bring to the workplace will be commensurately rewarded. No thanks are necessary for the removal of the shackles and freedom provided. Now go out there and transform your workplaces!!
• stlouiedipalma

  ernest_t_bass;698303 wrote:I don't know, I guess I'm just looking for some good in people. When a factory closed down recently in town, I shared a lot of sympathy with kids and parents, because I knew that the times were very hard for them.
  
  I don't NEED sympathy, but I also don't understand the negative comments as well.

  
  ernest,
  
  
  I have a great deal of sympathy for anyone who is looking down the barrel of a pay cut or a potential job loss. It's very difficult and stressful. I'm sure it's made even more so when we have the equivalence of class warfare, when it seems that everyone is treating public employees as thieves of some sort.
  
  That said, you've come to the wrong forum if you are looking for sympathy. I think the official Ohio Chatter policy on sympathy is something like this:
  
  "If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it in the dictionary somewhere between shit and syphillis."
  
  I don't agree with it, but it is what it is. A lot of folks here seem to embrace that philosophy though.
• queencitybuckeye

  stlouiedipalma;698629 wrote:ernest,
  
  
  I have a great deal of sympathy for anyone who is looking down the barrel of a pay cut or a potential job loss. It's very difficult and stressful. I'm sure it's made even more so when we have the equivalence of class warfare, when it seems that everyone is treating public employees as thieves of some sort.
  
  That said, you've come to the wrong forum if you are looking for sympathy. I think the official Ohio Chatter policy on sympathy is something like this:
  
  "If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it in the dictionary somewhere between shit and syphillis."
  
  I don't agree with it, but it is what it is. A lot of folks here seem to embrace that philosophy though.

  
  At an individual level, you are correct. I don't know ETB and certainly wish him no harm. At a collective level, the question remains why should those in the private sector whose standard of living has fallen significantly over the last few years be required to not only watch many in the public sector not be affected by the downturn, but to continue funding the public sector at the same levels. It's a simple equity argument, so obvious as to make the question nearly rhetorical.
• Bigdogg

  bases_loaded;698606 wrote:With healthcare I don't agree with anything about it...so whats your point?

  
  Some people think the same way as you do about how the healthcare act came to be....but that is another topic
• QuakerOats

  It is not the teachers, firemen or policemen that any of us loathe whatsoever; it is the union 'leadership', the union mentality, and the failed union operating model that we despise.
  
  We have all the sympathy in the world for those who will have to make adjustments ---- most of us have already had to do it in a major way, and it is no fun.
• Writerbuckeye

  

  QuakerOats;698676 wrote:It is not the teachers, firemen or policemen that any of us loathe whatsoever; it is the union 'leadership', the union mentality, and the failed union operating model that we despise.
  
  We have all the sympathy in the world for those who will have to make adjustments ---- most of us have already had to do it in a major way, and it is no fun.

  
  The.
  Bottom.
  Line..
• derek bomar

  

  Writerbuckeye;698684 wrote:The.
  Bottom.
  Line..

  
  
• sleeper

  

  ernest_t_bass;698388 wrote:I teach business. Accounting, Economics, Intro to Business, Computers. Am I needed? Business is the #1 major at colleges.

  
  Honestly, after seeing much of the irrational propaganda you spew, I hope that you aren't teaching economics because you haven't a freaking clue.
  
  The only "business" subjects that should be taught are basic economics and personal finance. I'd say your expendable. Good luck.
  
  As far as sympathy, I will give you some. My comments of "welcome to the real world" are more out of frustration to the arrogance/ignorance of many teachers than anything else.
• ernest_t_bass

  

  sleeper;698693 wrote:Honestly, after seeing much of the irrational propaganda you spew, I hope that you aren't teaching economics because you haven't a freaking clue.
  
  The only "business" subjects that should be taught are basic economics and personal finance. I'd say your expandable. Good luck.
  
  As far as sympathy, I will give you some. My comments of "welcome to the real world" are more out of frustration to the arrogance/ignorance of many teachers than anything else.

  
  LOL, what irrational propaganda? And I really do hope my job is expandable!
• LJ

  

  sleeper;698693 wrote:Honestly, after seeing much of the irrational propaganda you spew, I hope that you aren't teaching economics because you haven't a freaking clue.
  
  The only "business" subjects that should be taught are basic economics and personal finance. I'd say your expandable. Good luck.
  
  As far as sympathy, I will give you some. My comments of "welcome to the real world" are more out of frustration to the arrogance/ignorance of many teachers than anything else.

  
  he has expandable? WTF?
• sleeper

  

  Cool. It was a typo.
• LJ

  

  Yet you left the wrong "your"
• CenterBHSFan

  

  Well Ernest, I can certainly say that I've been on the backend of things concerning unions. Belonged to ALF-CIO, not your union, obviously. Anyhow, I remember all the union propaganda pushing NAFTA and how it was such a good thing, it was given to us by pamphlets on our way into the building, given to us at meetings, spoken to us as lunch, etc. I also remember a rally or two. Well, the union got its wonderful thing and it was a short matter of time that our workplace closed - directly related to the outcomes of NAFTA. Couple hundred people without jobs, at one place! There was previous talk that it was coming, rumors. Most of us didn't want to believe it because we believed everything that the union said. It made sense to us HOW they said it.
  Do I know your feelings of uncertaintly and anxiety? YES. I was working full time and going to school full time when that happened. And in the area that I live in, the only work advertised was truck drivers and RNs. And I wasn't finished with school yet to boot. But, after something like less then 7 days, I had another job.
  Not saying that that is what you or anybody else has to do, but it's not like nobody else has "been there". In fact, you have much better odds working for you than I or others where I worked did. I think that you'll be alright. I think that levels of anxiety are overshot. I might be wrong, who knows, but I don't think so.
  
  I do not sympathize with you, but I can and do empathize with you. I take that back. I can sympathize with believing in the union that you work for. Like I've said before, it's just about like a heroin addiction (not that I know from experience ) and unions can make you feel like you need them to survive and even thrive. But, you don't.
  .......................
  
  As an aside, when did Ohio teachers turn union?
• sleeper

  

  LJ;698712 wrote:Yet you left the wrong "your"

  
  Aren't moderators suppose to keep the discussion on topic?
• LJ

  

  sleeper;698717 wrote:Aren't moderators suppose to keep the discussion on topic?

  
  as much as you bash people, a little sidebar is ok.
• coach_bob1

  WebFire;698370 wrote: You don't know you will get a paycut. Until it is certain that you are, I am going to believe you won't. Because I really believe that.

  
  My wife just saw how much her pay will be cut. She currently makes $20.48 per hour. Her pay will be cut to $12.09 per hour. And we have been informed that our daughter's occupational therapy will not be covered.
• sleeper

  

  coach_bob1;698745 wrote:My wife just saw how much her pay will be cut. She currently makes $20.41 per hour. Her pay will be cut to $12.95 per hour. And we have been informed that our daughter's occupational therapy will not be covered.

  
  What does she do for a living? Who did she hear this from?
• WebFire

  coach_bob1;698745 wrote:My wife just saw how much her pay will be cut. She currently makes $20.41 per hour. Her pay will be cut to $12.95 per hour. And we have been informed that our daughter's occupational therapy will not be covered.

  
  B.S. - They have to finish out the current contract. If she wasn't on one, then why was she making that much to begin with?