Senate Bill 5 Targets Collective Bargaining for Elimination!

• wkfan

  LJ;689889 wrote:While not "a lot" of money, it surly is a comfortable amount for a 22 year old single income single person in Columbus.

  not too sure how many people graduate from college...then graduate school...and are 22, but OK.
• O-Trap

  

  Gblock;689892 wrote:well those are two different statements. that is comfortable if your 22 and single. if your 40 with a family and want to buy a house and pay for daycare it's not. and under no circumstances should the LOT have been in capital letters imo

  My statement was specifically for a "starting salary." If you're 40, with a family, you're right.
  
  However, a married couple living on a budget of a $38,000 combined income is more than doable (wife and I have been evidence of that), and even allows for a few luxuries (we each have hobbies that cost money, plus we have date nights regularly).
  

  LJ;689896 wrote:I know people who own houses and raise families on $50k in Columbus just fine, they don't live in the ghetto either.

  It's completely doable (though, admittedly, it's easier in lower-income areas).
  

  LJ;689908 wrote:With tax credits, someone raising a family on $45k would be nearly the same as someone making $50k. But I don't personally know anyone making $45k and rasing a family. I am merely commenting on the statements orig. given. That it's not "a lot" but comfortable, and that in WK's distrcit, starting salary is "Starting teacher salary in my district with a Master's Degree and no experience is $43,734 also with no bonus"

  I actually know several families with a household income of $45K or less. It requires a sizable amount of frugality (and by that, I don't mean things like picking trash), but that doesn't mean it's not doable. It's very doable in fact.
• LJ

  

  wkfan;689924 wrote:not too sure how many people graduate from college...then graduate school...and are 22, but OK.

  
  My bad, I honestly missed the "Master's" part.
  
  But still, 25 years old, not a bad salary. Veterinarians are 26 with $200k in debt and 8 years of school and start at an average of $48k.
• Gblock

  LJ;689927 wrote:My bad, I honestly missed the "Master's" part.
  
  But still, 25 years old, not a bad salary. Veterinarians are 26 with $200k in debt and 8 years of school and start at an average of $48k.

  
  technically Ohio state has a 5 year masters program so if you enter at 18 you could do it by 23 if your a good student
• Gblock

  LJ;689927 wrote:My bad, I honestly missed the "Master's" part.
  
  But still, 25 years old, not a bad salary. Veterinarians are 26 with $200k in debt and 8 years of school and start at an average of $48k.

  
  i need to find those vets because ive never seen anyone come out of the vet without a crazy high vet bill.
• dwccrew

  

  O-Trap;689811 wrote:

  Gblock;689750 wrote:well i still have to pay my bills when i dont have money...i cant call the electric company and say hey i wont be paying this month...my doctor doesnt slash his prices just cause im struggling, neither did my lawyer. i have to find the money somewhere. if there is no money to be paid how can i negotiate?

  They have to pay their obligations as well, which is probably why it is wise for them not to lock themselves into a financial contractual obligation to pay something they cannot afford to pay (which is what many districts have been forced to do). The difference with you is, you're able to find money elsewhere with things like odd jobs, weekend jobs, summer jobs, selling things, etc. The district doesn't really have the option of doing some private enterprise work on the side to suppliment their funds.

  Exactly what I was going to respond with.
  

  wkfan;689866 wrote:Huh....I gess the topic of salary is all relative.......
  
  Your 'first year associates' are making $105,000 with no bonus. More than likely just out of law school...3 years removed from undergrad.
  
  Starting teacher salary in my district with a Master's Degree and no experience is $43,734 also with no bonus.....with a Master's degree and no experience, likely 2 years out of undergrad. The max is $94,815 with a Masters Degree, 45 additional graduate hours (a PhD without the thesis) and 28 years on the job.

  A few things, first year associates put in more time than teachers, I am willing to bet this to be true. From what I have read from FFT and MB over the years on JJ and on here, those associates easily put 80+ hours in a week at the office alone, not too mention what they do at home for work. I know that there is no teacher (that I have ever met and I have a lot of friends that are teachers) that have ever had to put that much time in 6 days a week, 52 weeks a year.
  
  Furthermore, the amount of debt on school is much more for an attorney. Most of the time they foot the bill for their schooling, often teachers get assistance from the district they work in for continuing education. Not really comparable IMO.
• LJ

  

  Gblock;689933 wrote:i need to find those vets because ive never seen anyone come out of the vet without a crazy high vet bill.

  
  That's another topic for another thread, but it's actually quite cheap when you think about the mortgage, utility bills, salaries of all employees, $60k xray machine, $20k Ultrasound machine, overhead of medicines, etc etc etc etc.
• Gblock

  O-Trap;689926 wrote:My statement was specifically for a "starting salary." If you're 40, with a family, you're right.
  
  However, a married couple living on a budget of a $38,000 combined income is more than doable (wife and I have been evidence of that), and even allows for a few luxuries (we each have hobbies that cost money, plus we have date nights regularly).
  
  
  
  It's completely doable (though, admittedly, it's easier in lower-income areas).
  
  
  
  I actually know several families with a household income of $45K or less. It requires a sizable amount of frugality (and by that, I don't mean things like picking trash), but that doesn't mean it's not doable. It's very doable in fact.

  
  no one ever said it wasnt "do able" just said it wasnt "a lot"
• queencitybuckeye

  LJ;689876 wrote:I think striking is ridiculous to begin with.

  
  The best descripion of a strike I've heard is that it's an attempt to increase egg production by strangling the chicken.
• O-Trap

  

  Gblock;689937 wrote:no one ever said it wasnt "do able" just said it wasnt "a lot"

  
  Again, my statement saying that it is "a LOT" (all caps ) was in reference to a starting salary. That statement doesn't factor in the employee's "sitz im leben." It is a statement about first year salaries in a vacuum, but given that the norm for a starting salary is that it's for someone who is usually not yet raising a family (and in many cases, not even married yet), even if you take the normative stage of life for a first-year employee, it's a lot by comparison.
  
  But again, to a person raising a family, it's not a lot at all, and I recognize that.
• wkfan

  LJ;689927 wrote:My bad, I honestly missed the "Master's" part.
  
  But still, 25 years old, not a bad salary. Veterinarians are 26 with $200k in debt and 8 years of school and start at an average of $48k.

  Not sure why you through the Vet into the discussion. It's really not germaine as that is THEIR choice.
  
  Seems to me that Vet school is overpriced....why no uproar about that??
• O-Trap

  

  queencitybuckeye;689939 wrote:The best descripion of a strike I've heard is that it's an attempt to increase egg production by strangling the chicken.

  
  I saw a political cartoon that mirrored this a bit.
  
  It showed a mob of angry teachers (they were labeled) holding picket signs with language that seemed to advocate for the students and their education, and they were marching. Underneath their feet were a couple kids with bookbags on the ground next to them. The implication, of course, was that the actions of the teachers were, in fact, hurting the kids they claimed to advocate.
  
  Now the imagery is obviously propaganda. However, it does seem that teachers who strike on a platform of wanting resources to better educate the students are only perpetuating the problem by going long stretches without being in the classroom ... educating the students.
• O-Trap

  

  wkfan;689949 wrote:Not sure why you through the Vet into the discussion. It's really not germaine as that is THEIR choice.
  
  Seems to me that Vet school is overpriced....why no uproar about that??

  
  They have a choice to not pay for it ... by not going.
• Gblock

  wkfan;689949 wrote:Not sure why you through the Vet into the discussion. It's really not germaine as that is THEIR choice.
  
  Seems to me that Vet school is overpriced....why no uproar about that??

  
  does seem dumb...who the eff would sign up to go 200000 in debt to get a job that pays less than 50000. seems like you would be better off for that kinda money to become a medical doctor or dentist/surgeon or lawyer.
• LJ

  

  wkfan;689949 wrote:Not sure why you through the Vet into the discussion. It's really not germaine as that is THEIR choice.
  
  Seems to me that Vet school is overpriced....why no uproar about that??

  
  And it's a teacher's choice to become a teacher. You can't use that argument that it is their choice, when a teacher has just the same opportunities to make their choices.
  
  Also, it usually costs a good amount of money to become, ya know, a doctor.
• wkfan

  dwccrew;689934 wrote:Exactly what I was going to respond with.
  
  
  
  A few things, first year associates put in more time than teachers, I am willing to bet this to be true. From what I have read from FFT and MB over the years on JJ and on here, those associates easily put 80+ hours in a week at the office alone, not too mention what they do at home for work. I know that there is no teacher (that I have ever met and I have a lot of friends that are teachers) that have ever had to put that much time in 6 days a week, 52 weeks a year.
  
  Furthermore, the amount of debt on school is much more for an attorney. Most of the time they foot the bill for their schooling, often teachers get assistance from the district they work in for continuing education. Not really comparable IMO.

  I understand the differences in terms of hours....again, it is all relative.
  
  As far as school debt, that is a choice that a law student makes. If they don't want to incur the debt, then either choose another field or find another way to pay for it.
  
  BTW....very few districts offer tuition assistance. My wife, son, daughter-in-law, 3 nieces, sister-in-law and son's girlfriend all paid for their master's degree out of pocket. Not one taxpayer dollar went toward their tuition, supplies, etc. Very comparable.
• LJ

  

  Gblock;689955 wrote:does seem dumb...who the eff would sign up to go 200000 in debt to get a job that pays less than 50000. seems like you would be better off for that kinda money to become a medical doctor or dentist/surgeon or lawyer.

  
  Because it is what they want to do, just like a teacher wants to become a teacher.
• wkfan

  LJ;689957 wrote:And it's a teacher's choice to become a teacher. You can't use that argument that it is their choice, when a teacher has just the same opportunities to make their choices.
  
  Also, it usually costs a good amount of money to become, ya know, a doctor.

  yea...but it's a doctor of animals......not like its a doctor of something important, like people.
• LJ

  

  wkfan;689961 wrote:yea...but it's a doctor of animals......not like its a doctor of something important, like people.

  
  Wow.... just wow. Pretty low honestly. They are still Dr's. My fiancee legally goes by Dr. They do just as much schooling as an M.D. and moreso than a lawyer.
• Gblock

  LJ;689960 wrote:Because it is what they want to do, just like a teacher wants to become a teacher.

  
  well as for me i did know what i was getting into and i have no complaints....however now after i slave for years for little pay, finally after 15 years i start to make a good living then they want to switch the game up thus possibly altering the choice i would have made.(i know the private sector deals with this) however that is why i didnt choose a private sector job which i easily could have. if they want to make that choice knowing that going in thats fine was just saying for 200000 you could get a degree doing anything and thats a lot of money to "do what you like". I have mad respect for vets. i am an animal lover
• O-Trap

  

  Gblock;689955 wrote:does seem dumb...who the eff would sign up to go 200000 in debt to get a job that pays less than 50000. seems like you would be better off for that kinda money to become a medical doctor or dentist/surgeon or lawyer.

  
  (1) If it's their passion, it may not be about the money.
  
  (2) $50K is just the average STARTING pay, if I read his post correctly. Doesn't mean that's the average over a career.
• Gblock

  O-Trap;689971 wrote:(
  (2) $50K is just the average STARTING pay, if I read his post correctly. Doesn't mean that's the average over a career.

  
  that was my point i was trying to make it subtly....obviously vets make A LOT more than teachers thus making his comparison not exactly applicable as many of the comments on this thread
• LJ

  

  Gblock;689975 wrote:that was my point i was trying to make it subtly....obviously vets make A LOT more than teachers thus making his comparison not exactly applicable as many of the comments on this thread

  
  Average overall salary for an established vet is 88k
• Gblock

  LJ;689978 wrote:Average overall salary for an established vet is 88k

  
  seems low to me but i have no data
• imex99

  

  FALLSGUY;687895 wrote:I'll keep saying. Public employees have taken PAY CUTS for the last 2 years. And, they have been paying more for hospitaliztaion. Where would you like to start?

  
  State employee here...
  
  No raise, no step raise(not at top pay for my position), no personal leave accrual since 2009.
  We've taken cost saving days (furloghs) for 2 of 3 years of our contract. The BS about furloghs, only the executive branch under the governor received furlogh days. The legislative and judicial branch didn't furlogh there employees.
  Of course union dues, cost of family health insurance have risen.
  
  Sent from my Sprint HTC EVO 4G using Tapatalk