Archive

Disgusted With Obama Administration.

  • Manhattan Buckeye
    ^^^

    Again, that's what they do best, campaigning. They've done a $&%^ job of running the country.
  • Ty Webb
    Obama has the greatest asset any politician can have,16 months of unopposed campaiging
  • CenterBHSFan
    Others have said, and I agree, that Obama's biggest lucky charm will be to have republicans equal out congress. If that happens, Obama will not be able to run rampant and public opinion will level out.
    If congress doesn't even out, and we continue with a one party rule, Obama will probably be run out of town on a rail in '12.
  • majorspark
    Ty Webb;516649 wrote:Fox News has him leading every Republican challenger,with Romney coming the closest. If he was as screwed as some of you think he is...wouldn't Fox News at least have him trailing a couple of them?

    Maybe Fox News isn't the right wing nut site you thing it is after all.
  • Ty Webb
    majorspark;516844 wrote:Maybe Fox News isn't the right wing nut site you thing it is after all.

    Oh yeah it is....maybe it's that he's not as hated as you people think?
  • believer
    Ty Webb;516868 wrote:Oh yeah it is....maybe it's that he's not as hated as you people think?
    You people? We don't hate Obama...we just hate how he governs.
  • BGFalcons82
    Senator Coburn weighs in on the future of insurance-covered health care:

    http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=262&articleid=20101012_262_0_hrimgs995333

    According to his projections, single-payer health care will be here after the 2012 election. Why aren't any of the Dems running for re-election on this today? Why aren't they tickled pink in public to have their ObamaKare? Why aren't they shouting their accomplishments from the rooftops? Why are they silent about what they've done TO America?
  • CenterBHSFan
    Single payer won't happen that soon. The ultimate goal of dems with major socialistic viewpoints is 10-15-20 years down the road.

    The only people who will deny this are the people that:
    - just want to be argumentative
    - favor the move and are just playing it off
    - in total denial out of misgivings, anxiousness or fear
    OR
    - still have enough faith in the American voters to vote those socialistic democrats out of office
    - hoping that there will be enough of a balance of republican/democrat politicians to keep that linear train derailed
  • BGFalcons82
    CenterBHSFan;518234 wrote:Single payer won't happen that soon. The ultimate goal of dems with major socialistic viewpoints is 10-15-20 years down the road.

    The only people who will deny this are the people that:
    - just want to be argumentative
    - favor the move and are just playing it off
    - in total denial out of misgivings, anxiousness or fear
    OR
    - still have enough faith in the American voters to vote those socialistic democrats out of office
    - hoping that there will be enough of a balance of republican/democrat politicians to keep that linear train derailed

    He actually says 2014 and I added that it would be after the next election. I was emphasizing that if this is such a God-send, such a road to nirvana, such great law, etc. then why aren't any of the people that voted for it proclaiming its virtues and standing behind their votes? I find it very odd that the people who deny this should be repealed are the same people that don't brag about it, defend it publicly, nor even mention they are even tied to it. The answer is that Americans don't want it and since they have to solicit votes from people that don't want it, they are in a pickle.

    Toss 'em. Every one of 'em. Less than 3 weeks. This is going to feel like Christmas morning. :)
  • Ty Webb
    Fish....do you mean throw out every Republican....even the ones you like?
  • IggyPride00
    Single payer is an inevitability in this country no matter what party is in charge because big business has been lusting after it for years now. Obamacare is just the means by which they plan on transitioning the public into it.

    It has already started somewhat, but in the next decade the drum beat will howl from corporations that having to provide health insurance makes them non competitive in the global market place because every other country in the world has a sort of government sponsored health care system that doesn't place the financial burden on business.

    We will be subjected to a lot of talk about the tremendous growth in jobs we would see (as it stands business avoid people over 50 like the plague when hiring because of the cost of insuring them) if the trillion plus dollars currently being spent on insurance premiums were freed up to be used for innovation. Instead it will be a bait and switch though because what will happen is the money being spent on insurance premiums won't ever be passed on through to workers in terms of salary increases, and will instead be pocketed while huge new taxes will be placed on a variety of things to pay for government health care.

    Anyone who doesn't see the writing on the wall that this is the way things will eventually play out is either blind or refusing to see. It's not a liberal or conservative thing, but a by product of our economic system. Once healthcare costs become large enough to become an impediment to economic growth, the push to alleviate business's balance sheet from them will begin. Government is always more than happy to gain a new source of power/control over people's lives, and with that a toxic alliance will form to overthrow the current healthcare system and usher in an new era of single payer.

    Hate to be so cynical, but who would have ever believed in the late 90's (during a major economic boom) that within a decade the financial masters of the universe would be able co-opt the government into conning the American people out of trillions of dollars in bailouts and loan guarantees?

    Is it really so far fetched to see a time in the near future when those same powers won't converge to purge their books of the hundreds of billions spent on providing insurance for employees each year?
  • BGFalcons82
    Iggy -

    So that's it? It's over now? Nothing can be done to stop single-payer? We should just lay here and take it up the keester?

    One of the major problems with health care is that the end user has virtually no say in the cost, when to get the services nor where to obtain the services. There is a 3rd and 4th party (Insurance providers and governmental agencies) involved in the dealings between the provider and the patient. In almost every instance, these parties determine rates, who gets covered, who doesn't get covered, how often the service is necessary, and when services will no longer be provided. Can you think of any other industry where the consumer has such limited choices and no choice in how much to spend (or not spend)? Why is this industry so convoluted and corrupt?

    To me, one other major problem with health care is that we've been taught as a society to run....no, check that....race to the ER or call 911 for sniffles, fevers, and simple cuts. The idea of insurance being just for catastrophic injuries/illnesses disappeared decades ago. Although lately, these type of insurance packages have come back into vogue as a way to save money and allow for people to save for these high deductible plans with tax-deferred Health Savings Accounts (HSA's). If people are in charge of their health care dollars, then they will be more wise in how they spend them. This includes bandaids for cuts, OTC meds for headaches, and Kleenex. We have become a "victim society" and we need a pill, a doctor, or a hospital to care for everything. We are reaping what we sow.

    Finally...it ain't over. Single payer is socialism. That isn't my America.
  • believer
    BGFalcons82;518537 wrote:Iggy -

    So that's it? It's over now? Nothing can be done to stop single-payer? We should just lay here and take it up the keester?

    On of the major problems with health care is that the end user has virtually no say in the cost, when to get the services nor where to obtain the services. There is a 3rd and 4th party (Insurance providers and governmental agencies) involved in the dealings between the provider and the patient. In almost every instance, these parties determine rates, who gets covered, who doesn't get covered, how often the service is necessary, and when services will no longer be provided. Can you think of any other industry where the consumer has such limited choices and no choice in how much to spend (or not spend)? Why is this industry so convoluted and corrupt?

    To me, one other major problem with health care is that we've been taught as a society to run....no, check that....race to the ER or call 911 for sniffles, fevers, and simple cuts. The idea of insurance being just for catastrophic injuries/illnesses disappeared decades ago. Although lately, these type of insurance packages have come back into vogue as a way to save money and allow for people to save for these high deductible plans with tax-deferred Health Savings Accounts (HSA's). If people are in charge of their health care dollars, then they will be more wise in how they spend them. This includes bandaids for cuts, OTC meds for headaches, and Kleenex. We have become a "victim society" and we need a pill, a doctor, or a hospital to care for everything. We are reaping what we sow.

    Finally...it ain't over. Single payer is socialism. That isn't my America.
    This
  • IggyPride00
    BGFalcons82;518537 wrote:Iggy -

    So that's it? It's over now? Nothing can be done to stop single-payer? We should just lay here and take it up the keester?

    One of the major problems with health care is that the end user has virtually no say in the cost, when to get the services nor where to obtain the services. There is a 3rd and 4th party (Insurance providers and governmental agencies) involved in the dealings between the provider and the patient. In almost every instance, these parties determine rates, who gets covered, who doesn't get covered, how often the service is necessary, and when services will no longer be provided. Can you think of any other industry where the consumer has such limited choices and no choice in how much to spend (or not spend)? Why is this industry so convoluted and corrupt?

    To me, one other major problem with health care is that we've been taught as a society to run....no, check that....race to the ER or call 911 for sniffles, fevers, and simple cuts. The idea of insurance being just for catastrophic injuries/illnesses disappeared decades ago. Although lately, these type of insurance packages have come back into vogue as a way to save money and allow for people to save for these high deductible plans with tax-deferred Health Savings Accounts (HSA's). If people are in charge of their health care dollars, then they will be more wise in how they spend them. This includes bandaids for cuts, OTC meds for headaches, and Kleenex. We have become a "victim society" and we need a pill, a doctor, or a hospital to care for everything. We are reaping what we sow.

    Finally...it ain't over. Single payer is socialism. That isn't my America.

    BG-

    I agree with you 100 fold about the personal responsibility end and general removal of people from the cost side of health care. With a 3rd party paying, most people never see nor have any idea what the treatments they are getting actually cost and there for don't think twice about whether it is necessary or not.

    The problem we have though is that even if we went to a more market based system, we are still screwed because being the only open market Americans pay significant premiums on everything healthcare related over the rest of the world to supplement the profit margins of companies that can't charge what they would like in the rest of the world because of government price controls.

    We pay $10 a pill for something Candians pay $1 for because we are the only market out there. That is just an example using pharma, but the principle applies to medical tech companies and every other area in healthcare that requires innovation.

    Congress has continually passed bills that extend the lifespan on patents to stifle competition from generics, so Americans are going to continue to be left in the untenable position of supplementing the world's healthcare costs on our back.

    I am not a single payer advocate, but how do we ever get our arms around the cost inflation problem when we have rigged the game for insurers, pharma and device makers to protect their profit margins since they have to make up for 180 country's worth or profit in just the U.S?

    We can't change the way the rest of the world governments act with regard to healthcare and price controls, so isn't there going to come a point in which single payer becomes inevitable if only because we can't afford the bill of what one market (notice I didn't say free) pricing costs us?

    It's like the global warming hoax to me at this point. County's that limit their carbon emissions are cutting off their nose to spite their face because unless everyone else is playing by the same rules, you are really only hurting yourself in the long run by putting yourself at a competitive disadvantage.

    By being the only country that has no sort of price controls (not that I want it), I see no scenario in which we can ever get health care costs under control as we are always going to be forced to make-up for the profits not being made in the rest of the world (by paying drastically higher prices than everyone else) because every other government doesn't allow for market pricing in their country's.

    Don't misunderstand me. I am not advocating for socialism or single payer. What i am doing is acknowledging the reality that the way the system is we are doomed to the inevitability of it because we won't be able to afford the alternative as long as the other 180+ countries of the world operate with price controls.

    If company A needs to meet X cost on a certain thing, and Government B says you can only charge Y amount, that means that Company A is going to charge Americans cost plus whatever the difference is between X and Y. That is a fucked up system, but the way it is when there are 180+ closed markets and only 1 open one. Costs overall have doubled in America the past decade, and will double again in the next as long as we are paying the world's tab. It is just not sustainable if we can't get the rest of the world to open up their markets as the pricing inflation dynamic is not going to change for us sadly.
  • BGFalcons82
    Thanks, Iggy. Very well put. I understand the fact the world piggy-backs on the USA in order to keep their houses in order. Following your scenario, and we go to single payer, then who will then be the 1 country that funds the rest of the world? If this is the case, and I believe it is mostly the case, then what happens when we follow the rest of the world into socialized medicine? Sounds to me like pharma will dry up without significant R & D money. Sounds to me like the best and the brightest will no longer choose the medical profession. Sounds to me like the health delivery system will be severely affected...which affects all of us. Therefore, if we do find ourselves on the inevitable path to socialized medicine and single payer...then what have we done to ourselves all in the name of "fairness for all"?

    As I wrote, the answer lives in returning insurance to deal with catastrophic health conditions and no more ER room visits for fevers and colds. The answer lives in giving people the power to negotiate and purchase the health care they want, not the health care they are told they must have. In many ways, our current system with health providers is pseudo-single payer now as competition is restricted, many plans aren't allowed anymore thanks to ObamaKare, and people 1 day short of their 27th birthday are covered under daddy's plan.

    We can't quit the ideals of competition and capitalism just because the rest of the world wants us to pay for them. That's the answer to your scenario...quit funding the other 180 countries and let them live on their own and not be a parasite on us.
  • I Wear Pants
    This is one of those fine line things for me. I appreciate and acknowledge that an open and competitive market is oftentimes the best source of innovation and progress. However, I also feel that the corporatizing of our health interests and healthcare is quite sad and should be discouraged.

    I haven't seen a healthcare plan that I like completely be it more "free market" based or something more like a single payer system. They all have parts that I'm uncomfortable with or that I think don't work well.
  • Ty Webb
    http://politicalwire.com/archives/2010/10/26/enthusiasm_comparably_high_for_obama_reelection.html
  • CenterBHSFan

    You've been hanging around QO too long! lol
  • QuakerOats
    Update on impending massive tax hike:

    http://www.atr.org/six-months-untilbr-largest-tax-hikes-a5171#

    Change we can believe in ........
  • fish82
    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/81213-52-say-obama-doesnt-deserve-reelection-

    Sike.
  • Ty Webb
    You want to talk about disgusting....


    Some Republicans are now blaming this terror plot on Dems saying "They set this up to try and get sympathy before Tuesday"

    Anyone who believes this should have their asses kicked
  • CenterBHSFan
    Ty Webb;537585 wrote:You want to talk about disgusting....


    Some Republicans are now blaming this terror plot on Dems saying "They set this up to try and get sympathy before Tuesday"

    Anyone who believes this should have their asses kicked

    Who said that?
  • cbus4life
    CenterBHSFan;537605 wrote:Who said that?

    I think Gibby is talking out of his ass, unless he's referring to all the nut jobs in the comments section of the Fox News article on the terror plot. :D

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/10/29/authorities-investigating-possible-bomb-threat-philadelphia-international/?test=latestnews#content

    A few quotes from the first page of the comments section. These people don't count as "republicans," Gibby. :D Though, i do agree with you that such an attitude is absolutely idiotic. But, don't try to make it sound like anyone credible is making those claims.
    Breaking News: Bombs Bound for U.S. Same Material as in Failed Christmas Day Attack" ---they have confirmed the material already? yea come on, you know how long it takes govt to do anything, now this result within hours? very fishy. obama is not slick willie. he needs to stop trying.
    Nice try, Obama. But we won't let you scare us into voting Dem on Tuesday. Oh, and I also like how suddenly the administration is finally acting like the Christmas Day attack was serious. I remember how they blew it off when it happened; they said it was "just some guy trying to cause some panic" and let the UndieBomber get turned over the local POLICE, for Pete's sake! Well, a lot of us see through this latest orchestration and realize that probably Obama whistled up some buddies in the Middle East in a desperate attempt to save his cronies on Tuesday.
  • Ty Webb
    CenterBHSFan;537605 wrote:Who said that?

    Is was posed as a question to Robert Gibbs today like so...

    "Mr Gibbs,what is the WH's response to statements by Republicans that Democrats may have set this up as a way to try to pull voters to their side come next Tuesday?"
  • CenterBHSFan
    Ty Webb;537765 wrote:Is was posed as a question to Robert Gibbs today like so...

    "Mr Gibbs,what is the WH's response to statements by Republicans that Democrats may have set this up as a way to try to pull voters to their side come next Tuesday?"

    Soooo.... the question was asked by a WH reporter, who didn't give specifics or names?

    That tells me that it was a rhetorical question, picked out of thin air, for the express purpose of getting people like you to react in just the way that you are.