Question posed on the radio this morning....if you were starting a franchise and had to pick between the two (assuming Garrett pans out to be a stud long term) do you take Joe Thomas (LT) or Myles Garrett (DE). This is with the assumption both would be stalwarts at their position (we know JT was).

posted by BR1986FB

Question posed on the radio this morning....if you were starting a franchise and had to pick between the two (assuming Garrett pans out to be a stud long term) do you take Joe Thomas (LT) or Myles Garrett (DE). This is with the assumption both would be stalwarts at their position (we know JT was).

I LOVE Joe GOAThomas, but this is an easy decision. Myles Garrett assuming health.

posted by Commander of Awesome

I LOVE Joe GOAThomas, but this is an easy decision. Myles Garrett assuming health.

Agreed on Garrett

posted by BR1986FB

Question posed on the radio this morning....if you were starting a franchise and had to pick between the two (assuming Garrett pans out to be a stud long term) do you take Joe Thomas (LT) or Myles Garrett (DE). This is with the assumption both would be stalwarts at their position (we know JT was).

Thomas.....

posted by BR1986FB

Question posed on the radio this morning....if you were starting a franchise and had to pick between the two (assuming Garrett pans out to be a stud long term) do you take Joe Thomas (LT) or Myles Garrett (DE). This is with the assumption both would be stalwarts at their position (we know JT was).

Assuming Garret is a HOFer and top 5 of his position all time?  I would go with Garret with today's NFL and the importance of pass rush.  Garret has a lot of work to do to be the DE equivalent to GOATmas though.

posted by like_that

Assuming Garret is a HOFer and top 5 of his position all time?  I would go with Garret with today's NFL and the importance of pass rush.  Garret has a lot of work to do to be the DE equivalent to GOATmas though.

The assumption is that they would both be high level (obviously JT was). Pass rushers are not easy to find. In fact, behind QB they are probably the most coveted position in the league. LT, on the other hand, is important but nowhere near as important as it used to be. Hate to use this example but I'm pretty sure Pittsburgh's LT (Villanueva) was an UDFA. 

Garrett, due to position.  But I'd take Lawrence Taylor over any non-QB.

posted by Verbal Kint

Garrett, due to position.  But I'd take Lawrence Taylor over any non-QB.

Interesting debate.

Give me Jim Brown.

On Defense it comes down to a few players:

• Reggie White
• LT
• JJ Watt in his prime
• Aaron Donald

Not the All-22 but some nice breakdown here, and yes...TT left plenty on the field (middle of the field) but the receivers (sounds like) were half assing it...

https://twitter.com/BrownsFilmBDN

Jesus....if anyone wants to see a truly "Tyrod moment" go over to the OBR and click on the link in the Watercooler for the thread "Anyone get the All 22?" Scroll down and there's a screenshot of a 3rd & 13 where TT scrambles for a 1st down early in the game. I don't think TT's past the LOS but look at Landry in the middle of the field. That's 6...friggin terrible

EDIT: I'll just post the thread:

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Board/105323/Contents/Anyone-Get-the-All-22-121761969/

posted by BR1986FB

Jesus....if anyone wants to see a truly "Tyrod moment" go over to the OBR and click on the link in the Watercooler for the thread "Anyone get the All 22?" Scroll down and there's a screenshot of a 3rd & 13 where TT scrambles for a 1st down early in the game. I don't think TT's past the LOS but look at Landry in the middle of the field. That's 6...friggin terrible

EDIT: I'll just post the thread:

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Board/105323/Contents/Anyone-Get-the-All-22-121761969/

We get it. He had a bad game. And he’s going to miss open receivers all season because he’s not a top 10 overall Qb. 

His completion % was the worst he’s ever had in his career. It was his first game and against a pretty good D. Let’s move on yeah? 

posted by SportsAndLady

Let’s move on yeah? 

2018.  When do the Browns move on from safe check down Taylor to flashy young Mayfield

posted by Verbal Kint

2018.  When do the Browns move on from safe check down Taylor to flashy young Mayfield

Exactly. That's why I said fans would be pissed at all of the missed opportunities with Tyrod. This wasn't a "bad game." This was the norm for TT whenever he gets in bad weather.

Also disagree about him playing against a "good defense." The Browns receivers exploited the Steelers secondary on numerous occasions and TT didn't recognize it.

I thought Mayfield was a better QB than Darnold coming out of this draft which makes me question why one is on the field and the other isn't. The veteran behind Darnold (McCown), imo is a wash with Tyrod, talent-wise.

I can't really blame Hue for BM not playing either. This has a "Alex Smith/Pat Mahomes" scenario written all over it, which is Dorsey's doing.

posted by BR1986FB

Exactly. That's why I said fans would be pissed at all of the missed opportunities with Tyrod. This wasn't a "bad game." This was the norm for TT whenever he gets in bad weather.

Also disagree about him playing against a "good defense." The Browns receivers exploited the Steelers secondary on numerous occasions and TT didn't recognize it.

I thought Mayfield was a better QB than Darnold coming out of this draft which makes me question why one is on the field and the other isn't. The veteran behind Darnold (McCown), imo is a wash with Tyrod, talent-wise.

I can't really blame Hue for BM not playing either. This has a "Alex Smith/Pat Mahomes" scenario written all over it, which is Dorsey's doing.

Statistically this was TT’s worst game in his career, but you’re saying it’s the norm. 

Steeers defense will finish a top 15 defense. Don’t let your hatred of TT make you say dumb things. 

I'd say it was a little more than just "bad weather."

It was a torrential downpour from start to finish. Looked absolutely miserable to attend or play in.

posted by SportsAndLady

Statistically this was TT’s worst game in his career, but you’re saying it’s the norm. 

Steeers defense will finish a top 15 defense. Don’t let your hatred of TT make you say dumb things. 

In bad weather, it's the norm. Part of the reason Bill's fans didn't care that he left. 

Pittsburgh's defense likely WILL finish in the top 15 but it won't be their pass defense. A decent QB will pick that secondary apart.

Look, TT isn't the worst QB in the league but the faster they get to Baker, the better. Mayfield isn't Manziel or Kizer or Kessler. Putting the #1 overall pick, who was one of the most accurate QB's in college football history, who has overcome EVERY challenge put in front of him, isn't going to "ruin" him like all of these bullshit fans want to spew. The moment is NOT too big for him.

I just TT is a JAG. He's not terrible, ideal backup. He is slow mentally processing, doesn't trust his arm, and doesn't like to throw across the middle of the field. Hard to win consistently when your QB is slow to process, and doesn't throw a ball over the middle of the field. That's been his knock for yrs. Don't think he sucks, but it makes it harder to win on Sundays that way if your QB plays that way. Baker should be starting right now, can't get reps riding pine.

That being said, I understand why TT was brought in. We were afraid of a situation last yr where Kizer clearly wasn't there from a mental standpoint (Baker is), and we had NO ONE to go to. Wanted to avoid that situation, but also have to adapt to current conditions. Baker is the #1 overall pick, face of franchise and needs reps, bottom line.

I actually agree with both of you. I wouldn’t be mad at all if they decided to go with baker. I’m not claiming TT is a pro bowl QB who will take us to the promise land. 

But he had one of the worst games of his career and I don’t think continuously pointing out what he did wrong (while also not acknowledging he played well at the end and SHOUKD have gotten us a win if our K was able to hit a gd 42 yard field goal) is really providing much. We all know he had a bad game, let’s move on and hopefully he can play better against NO in a dome. 

posted by Commander of Awesome

That being said, I understand why TT was brought in. We were afraid of a situation last yr where Kizer clearly wasn't there from a mental standpoint (Baker is), and we had NO ONE to go to. Wanted to avoid that situation, but also have to adapt to current conditions. Baker is the #1 overall pick, face of franchise and needs reps, bottom line.

A lot of people are blaming Hue for Baker not playing. I have to give him a pass on this one though because this is a Dorsey move. Dorsey brought in TT. Hue wanted that shitbag McCarron.

I see Dorsey trying to replicate the Alex Smith/Pat Mahomes recipe but I hope it accelerates faster than it took for Mahomes to see the field.

posted by BR1986FB

Jesus....if anyone wants to see a truly "Tyrod moment" go over to the OBR and click on the link in the Watercooler for the thread "Anyone get the All 22?" Scroll down and there's a screenshot of a 3rd & 13 where TT scrambles for a 1st down early in the game. I don't think TT's past the LOS but look at Landry in the middle of the field. That's 6...friggin terrible

EDIT: I'll just post the thread:

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Board/105323/Contents/Anyone-Get-the-All-22-121761969/

I figured this might be another terrible screenshot like the Trubisky/Burton thing where there was no way for him to actually make the throw but yeah TT had some time and probably should have made the throw but I mean at least he got a 1st down....

Bad look, but hey it happens. Hope he doesn't do it again.

posted by Iliketurtles

I figured this might be another terrible screenshot like the Trubisky/Burton thing where there was no way for him to actually make the throw but yeah TT had some time and probably should have made the throw but I mean at least he got a 1st down....

That was so dumb.

But also on this, while the throw could be made, you also risk getting hit as you throw and it’s picked. Or incomplete and no first on a 3rd down. Based on the screenshot, he needs to take a plant and step, and the defender is already free of the block. Tyrod is gonna get smoked, best case, right after the ball is launched. Screenshots inheritantly are dumb.

Now, if the video shows he already took a step with Landry breaking free that’s different. But this exact screenshot tells me very little. Need to see it in real-time from the all-22.

Uggh...this is gut wrenching. If Avery (thanks for the strip on TheRapist) blocks Pouncey, instead of celebrating, Garrett probably never blocks Pouncey in the back and Schobert scores...

https://www.cleveland.com/expo/sports/erry-2018/09/26a7cdc2f4821/joe-schoberts-overtime-fumble.html

posted by BR1986FB

Uggh...this is gut wrenching. If Avery (thanks for the strip on TheRapist) blocks Pouncey, instead of celebrating, Garrett probably never blocks Pouncey in the back and Schobert scores...

https://www.cleveland.com/expo/sports/erry-2018/09/26a7cdc2f4821/joe-schoberts-overtime-fumble.html

Yeah wtf is he doing

posted by SportsAndLady

Yeah wtf is he doing

He's pulling a Dwayne Rudd, minus the helmet throw....celebrating a victory before the game/play is over. Just little shit like this that is costing them W's.