posted by gut

And one day he might even be more than a mediocre QB...

Joking aside, in the modern NFL you might perhaps be able to win in the playoffs with a guy like Mayfield.  But the pressure stats tell you he's not a gamer, and actually a weakness you need to mask.

It may be a hot streak, but he’s been a top-5 QB this season. Especially the last half of the year. And the numbers back it up, not just the eye test.

posted by like_that

He’s starting to improve while under pressure too.

Baker Mayfield against the blitz tonight: 12-of-13, 10.5 yards per attempt — career-best performance for Baker vs. blitz via @ESPNStatsInfo #browns

— Jake Trotter (@Jake_Trotter) December 21, 2020

He's playing at an elite level right now. When you're mentioned in the same breath as Mahomes and Rodgers that's putting up pretty strong numbers.

posted by Laley23

It may be a hot streak, but he’s been a top-5 QB this season. Especially the last half of the year. And the numbers back it up, not just the eye test.

No. Just no. LMFAO top-5 no put down the crack pipe.  He's literally been a top-15 QB on a loaded offense - numbers and eye test.  Early in the year I would have said he's not a franchise QB, and now I'd say he's the minimum you could win a SB with, which is great but not necessarily someone I'd want to saddle my team with a $25M per year contract.  Very different ball game after you pay that guy.

posted by like_that

We know things are starting to improve for Baker, if the criticism has shifted to how he handles pressure.  That's next level stuff, that even the best can't do well at times.  He is impriving under pressure, and hopefully he continues to approve.

Not "next level", that's what being a long-term NFL QB comes down to.  If you're saying he's showing he belongs in the league as a starting QB, I'll agree.  But those numbers against pressure are abysmal.  He's going to improve on that, or he's absolutely going to shit the bed against playoff defenses.

He's playing on a loaded offense and not hurting his team.  That's more accurate.  Granted, only about 15 guys on the planet can do that...but a long, long ways from being elite.

Right now the numbers are disagreeing about "next level" and "elite." 

Keep in mind, Mayfield learned this offense under a new HC/OC via Zoom. He didn't have the luxuries that a Roethlisberger, Lamar Jackson, Mahomes, Rodgers, etc had being in the same system that they've played in for 3+ years. Perhaps he's grasped it and it getting back to rookie form and possibly better?

He reminds me a lot of Andy Dalton.  Or even Carson Palmer.  Both failed miserably in big games and when they needed to make big plays, and right now that's who Baker Mayfield is.

I'm not sure what you're saying about the numbers "disagreeing"....he's 11th in QBR in a loaded offense.  That's a group that includes Rivers, Brady and Roethlisberger, and not a group anyone should be calling elite.

Mayfield isn't even my top "pretender" - he'd be behind Derek Carr and Ryan Tannenhill.  Those two guys are having nice seasons, according to their "numbers"....

Apparently you didn't read the stats I posted. Since week 7, only Mahomes has graded higher than Mayfield according to PFF's metrics. Mayfield is the only QB, besides Rodgers, to have at least 4 quarterback ratings of 135+ in first half's this season. He's also, I believe, the only QB that has thrown 4 TD's in a half (twice) this year. 

You can spout off all you want about "pretender" but Mayfield is progressing and on an upward trend (see previous comments about learning new system, Zoom, etc). As long as Stefanski keeps utilizing his skill set intelligently, this will continue to improve.

posted by gut

Not "next level", that's what being a long-term NFL QB comes down to.  If you're saying he's showing he belongs in the league as a starting QB, I'll agree.  But those numbers against pressure are abysmal.  He's going to improve on that, or he's absolutely going to shit the bed against playoff defenses.

He's playing on a loaded offense and not hurting his team.  That's more accurate.  Granted, only about 15 guys on the planet can do that...but a long, long ways from being elite.

Gut has obviously watched about 10 minutes of Baker this season outside of the browns/steelers game. 

posted by gut

No. Just no. LMFAO top-5 no put down the crack pipe.  He's literally been a top-15 QB on a loaded offense - numbers and eye test.  Early in the year I would have said he's not a franchise QB, and now I'd say he's the minimum you could win a SB with, which is great but not necessarily someone I'd want to saddle my team with a $25M per year contract.  Very different ball game after you pay that guy.

I’m not just making stuff up man. He’s ranked 5th in QBR and 11th on QB Rating. Last half of the season (since OBJ injury) he is like 3rd in Rating and 4th in QBR. Situationally, he’s ranked as the top QB in the 4th Q and OT.

I’m not dumb enough to say he’s the 3rd best QB this year, but he is doing what needs to be done. He has a great line and a coach who finally is utilizing him and the team personnel properly. Baker has them at 10-4, and likely ends at an 11 or 12 win season. Lots of that is the coaching/line/RB, but Baker gets to take some credit also.

Along the lines of coaching and line play, he is behind only Ben and Rivers as far as sacks taken. But, also give him credit for pre snap recognition and post snap quick decisions when the pressure gets there. It’s all combined.

posted by like_that

Great win and if we are not going to be AFC north champs, we can at least claim the NFC East title.

And AFC South

posted by Laley23

I’m not just making stuff up man. He’s ranked 5th in QBR and 11th on QB Rating. Last half of the season (since OBJ injury) he is like 3rd in Rating and 4th in QBR. Situationally, he’s ranked as the top QB in the 4th Q and OT.

I’m not dumb enough to say he’s the 3rd best QB this year, but he is doing what needs to be done. He has a great line and a coach who finally is utilizing him and the team personnel properly. Baker has them at 10-4, and likely ends at an 11 or 12 win season. Lots of that is the coaching/line/RB, but Baker gets to take some credit also.

Along the lines of coaching and line play, he is behind only Ben and Rivers as far as sacks taken. But, also give him credit for pre snap recognition and post snap quick decisions when the pressure gets there. It’s all combined.

The thing I've noticed from him pre/post OBJ injury is that he isn't in a situation where he feels obligated to give OBJ that first look before going elsewhere. Right after OBJ went down against Cincy, you could see he started going through progressions and scanning the field, distributing to more receivers. OBJ, I wouldn't say, wasn't a hinderance but a QB does want to get his WR1 the ball and make him happy.

Another thing, which you touched on, is Stefanski and his scheme. How many times last year were we screaming because KFF was trying to make him a pocket passer, balls were getting batted down and he just looked like crap? We all knew that getting Mayfield out in space, on play action, was the smart bet. The stats said it. The stats also said they were more successful in 12 personnel, even with KFF, yet he refused to utilize it enough. Maybe Baltimore runs more 12 personnel than the Browns but I doubt there's another team that does.

What we're seeing is a QB that looks like he's finally been put in the right system and is growing with it very successfully. If I were to bet, I'd say Mayfield continues to get better versus regressing like he did last year.

Nick Harris should get his first start at RG against the Jets. Chris Hubbard has torn knee ligaments and is done for the year and Wyatt Teller is unlikely to play. Sounds like Sheldon Richardson should be ok.

To be fair since Week 7 they have played some shit teams and defenses. They are definitely a good team and going in the right direction. If they have another good offseason, next year should be the year they can really start thinking about titles. 

posted by sportchampps

To be fair since Week 7 they have played some shit teams and defenses. They are definitely a good team and going in the right direction. If they have another good offseason, next year should be the year they can really start thinking about titles. 

Counter point — since week 7 they’ve played in 3 hurricanes. Lol

Preferably, Vegas wins Saturday. But if not, Browns will at worst be hosting SNF for the division if they can beat Jets. Colts win next week and Browns/Steelers will be SNF for the division. Steelers win and Browns clinch. Win-win.

posted by Laley23

Preferably, Vegas wins Saturday. But if not, Browns will at worst be hosting SNF for the division if they can beat Jets. Colts win next week and Browns/Steelers will be SNF for the division. Steelers win and Browns clinch. Win-win.

SNF will suck lol 

posted by Laley23

Preferably, Vegas wins Saturday. But if not, Browns will at worst be hosting SNF for the division if they can beat Jets. Colts win next week and Browns/Steelers will be SNF for the division. Steelers win and Browns clinch. Win-win.

Nothing that involves the Steelers winning is ever a win-win.

Pro Bowl...Bitonio, Chubb, Garrett.

posted by Gardens35

Pro Bowl...Bitonio, Chubb, Garrett.

All 3 should get All-Pro as well. Chubb maybe misses out due to Cook and Henry. 

posted by Laley23

All 3 should get All-Pro as well. Chubb maybe misses out due to Cook and Henry. 

Even though Ward missed time, I thought he should've been given some consideration as well. Pretty sure Pouncey (Pittsburgh) missed a few games and he still got on.

posted by BR1986FB

Even though Ward missed time, I thought he should've been given some consideration as well. Pretty sure Pouncey (Pittsburgh) missed a few games and he still got on.

He’s been awesome when he’s played.

posted by Laley23

He’s been awesome when he’s played.

Definitely a shutdown corner. He was huge Sunday night.

So the entirety of the WR group might be out tomorrow?

posted by wildcats20

So the entirety of the WR group might be out tomorrow?

True Browns fans expect something ridiculous to screw them