posted by Spock

They are acting like those cases are people that are actively sick.  A few are but 1800+ are people that tested positive with zero symptoms and arent "sick" and wont be "sick"

 

 

At the very least it would be a good place to look at and study and she basically said they were t even paying attention to it.

Back down to 380 new cases today

posted by sportchampps

At the very least it would be a good place to look at and study and she basically said they were t even paying attention to it.

There's some interesting information there, but also somewhat anecdotal as far as mortality rates.  Maybe it's an indicator that it's not that easy for healthy people to catch unless you're in confined spaces for long periods of time (as with some other examples on ships).  In other words, contagion being a function of exposure, and for typical exposures there's a higher mortality rate because healthier people don't contract it as easily.

I think she's probably right to ignore that.  That sort of anecdotal good news only encourages people to ignore guidelines and take this less seriously (which might be justifiable, we just don't have the data to know).

Of course, on a related note, I've already seen media stories using this high contagion rate to claim this is a vector to kill hundreds of thousands given 2M prisoners with an average stay of about 25 days.  Those same stories ignore the low mortality rate in those prisons, but they might have a point of prisons being a "NY subway-type" vector of transmission.

posted by Ironman92

Back down to 380 new cases today

National cases and deaths spiked yesterday, but look to be falling back near the recent trend today.  I wonder if data from yesterday won't end-up be revised, because it looks like an anomaly (maybe a backlog of cases that need to be re-assigned to the date taken rather than the date the test was completed).

posted by gut

National cases and deaths spiked yesterday, but look to be falling back near the recent trend today.  I wonder if data from yesterday won't end-up be revised, because it looks like an anomaly (maybe a backlog of cases that need to be re-assigned to the date taken rather than the date the test was completed).

As I mentioned earlier, if you download the states excel file everyday, the new cases reported for a certain day are never just for that day. It’s constantly backlogged. The last few days have been a combo of tons of new testing bc of the prison, and late data entry. 

https://www.foxnews.com/health/nearly-all-ny-coronavirus-patients-suffered-underlying-health-issue-study-finds

Recent study at one NY hospital of 5400 patients show that 94% of fatalities had other health conditions.  Obesity, diabetes etc.......  healthy people need to open this thing back up.  As the numbers start coming out in the next few weeks, its gonna show that this thing isnt that bad.

posted by Spock

https://www.foxnews.com/health/nearly-all-ny-coronavirus-patients-suffered-underlying-health-issue-study-finds

 

Recent study at one NY hospital of 5400 patients show that 94% of fatalities had other health conditions.  Obesity, diabetes etc.......  healthy people need to open this thing back up.  As the numbers start coming out in the next few weeks, its gonna show that this thing isnt that bad.

You understand if we do a full re-opening, that people with underlying health issues will continue to die, right? 

I like the NY statistics.  What I would rather see, however, is reports on the "healthy" people who are dying.  We all know that people with underlying health and immuno-deficiencies are at a greater risk of death, and would come as no surprise.  But of the "healthy" people who are dying, are they 100% uncompromised?  Yes, they had healthy lifestyles, were fit, ate right, etc.  But was there anything that compromised their health in regards to COVID?  I think that would go much further than reporting that "water is wet." 

posted by Spock

https://www.foxnews.com/health/nearly-all-ny-coronavirus-patients-suffered-underlying-health-issue-study-finds

 

Recent study at one NY hospital of 5400 patients show that 94% of fatalities had other health conditions.  Obesity, diabetes etc.......  healthy people need to open this thing back up.  As the numbers start coming out in the next few weeks, its gonna show that this thing isnt that bad.

You do realize 6% of a small sample size equates to a huge number in general population right? 

posted by Spock

https://www.foxnews.com/health/nearly-all-ny-coronavirus-patients-suffered-underlying-health-issue-study-finds

 

Recent study at one NY hospital of 5400 patients show that 94% of fatalities had other health conditions.  Obesity, diabetes etc.......  healthy people need to open this thing back up.  As the numbers start coming out in the next few weeks, its gonna show that this thing isnt that bad.

The problem all along with this is if you have "healthy" people mixing normally, that greatly increases the chances of them bringing the virus back home to people with underlying conditions. It seems impossible to segment people with these conditions, isolate them and open the economy to everyone else. 

Pack of wild Karens in Idaho. They showed those cops!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8245221/Idaho-mom-arrested-protesting-coronavirus-lockdown-closed-playground.html

posted by SportsAndLady

You understand if we do a full re-opening, that people with underlying health issues will continue to die, right? 

Those with significant health conditions and their families are going to have to do their best to isolate those individuals until such time they decide not to.  The rest of the country is going to have to go back to work and return to some semblance of normal, albeit with greater attention to continued containment/mitigation.  We cannot burn down the village to save the village.

Will you be self-isolating in that situation?

posted by Automatik

Will you be self-isolating in that situation?

posted by QuakerOats

 

 

 

Those with significant health conditions and their families are going to have to do their best to isolate those individuals until such time they decide not to.  The rest of the country is going to have to go back to work and return to some semblance of normal, albeit with greater attention to continued containment/mitigation.  We cannot burn down the village to save the village.

Just curious, where is that line? You do know we are a very fat and unhealthy nation. 

Also, if I have a health condition and need to stay home, what is my employer going to do? Will they lay me off or keep me on for an undetermined time? If I am a small business owner and have an underlying health condition, how does that work? 

Quaker and CC’s plan is “all healthy people go back to work. All citizens with underlying health issues will self isolate”

Because that’s so cut and dry lol

posted by SportsAndLady

Quaker and CC’s plan is “all healthy people go back to work. All citizens with underlying health issues will self isolate”

Because that’s so cut and dry lol

Many people could have a underlying condition and not even know it.  I had a co-worker go to the hospital last month for what he thought was an upset stomach and found out he has a heart defect that he had since birth.  Big strong athletic guy who played hs and college sports.  He's in his mid 40s 

posted by geeblock

Many people could have a underlying condition and not even know it.  I had a co-worker go to the hospital last month for what he thought was an upset stomach and found out he has a heart defect that he had since birth.  Big strong athletic guy who played hs and college sports.  He's in his mid 40s 

That’s one of the thousand things that can go wrong with simply saying “if you’re healthy go back to work, if you’re not then self-isolate.”

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Pack of wild Karens in Idaho. They showed those cops!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8245221/Idaho-mom-arrested-protesting-coronavirus-lockdown-closed-playground.html

 

Being a cop would suck sometimes. 

posted by SportsAndLady

Quaker and CC’s plan is “all healthy people go back to work. All citizens with underlying health issues will self isolate”

Because that’s so cut and dry lol

I didn’t say it was cut and dry; people need to make decisions based on their health and good guidance.

We lose 40,000 people per year in traffic fatalities because we do not mandate a speed limit of 5 mph.  We accept the cost of the 40,000 lives in return for higher speed limits and permitting vehicle traffic. 

None of this is easy, but it can be approached rationally.

posted by QuakerOats

 

 

 

I didn’t say it was cut and dry; people need to make decisions based on their health and good guidance.

 

We lose 40,000 people per year in traffic fatalities because we do not mandate a speed limit of 5 mph.  We accept the cost of the 40,000 lives in return for higher speed limits and permitting vehicle traffic. 

 

None of this is easy, but it can be approached rationally.

 

I love this false choice. We lost 40k people to this virus in a month and are losing about 1-2K per day. If we lost 40k to auto deaths in  a month, you better believe we would change our public policy to limit that. 

Also, sure people should make decisions based on their health, but there are legit questions of how will their employers protect them and what happens to jobs if people have to self quarantine for a while. 

If I get sick from being at my job and had to self quarantine, how does that work? Am I taking all my sick time? What if my employer does not offer sicktime? Do I have to use FMLA? What if they lay me off because I am fearful about coming in? Do I have grounds to sue for unfair termination? 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

I love this false choice. We lost 40k people to this virus in a month and are losing about 1-2K per day. If we lost 40k to auto deaths in  a month, you better believe we would change our public policy to limit that. 

False choice and hyperbole are the building blocks of any good Quaker argument.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

I love this false choice. We lost 40k people to this virus in a month and are losing about 1-2K per day. If we lost 40k to auto deaths in  a month, you better believe we would change our public policy to limit that. 

Also, sure people should make decisions based on their health, but there are legit questions of how will their employers protect them and what happens to jobs if people have to self quarantine for a while. 

If I get sick from being at my job and had to self quarantine, how does that work? Am I taking all my sick time? What if my employer does not offer sicktime? Do I have to use FMLA? What if they lay me off because I am fearful about coming in? Do I have grounds to sue for unfair termination? 

Please read up on the Families First Act and the Cares Act.

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/494034-the-data-are-in-stop-the-panic-and-end-the-total-isolation?fbclid=IwAR2kBEGo8waJAqbw56fViPLovvIQ9M-iPHf0MDjNx_aag5cgvQP84hvcKPU

Reasoned

posted by QuakerOats

 

 

 

I didn’t say it was cut and dry; people need to make decisions based on their health and good guidance.

 

We lose 40,000 people per year in traffic fatalities because we do not mandate a speed limit of 5 mph.  We accept the cost of the 40,000 lives in return for higher speed limits and permitting vehicle traffic. 

 

None of this is easy, but it can be approached rationally.

 

Since this is a talking point your leader introduced (as opposed to you thinking it up), let's recall what else he said about it.  The first time he brought it up, there were a few hundred deaths from coronavirus.  He pointed out the number of car accident deaths (40,000) per year was far in excess of the number of virus deaths.  At the time, early in the pandemic, this was true.  Now it is not.  And has been pointed out on here, we've reached 46,000 dead in a little over a month.  If we lost 40,000 people in a month to car accidents, you can be assured that major steps would be taken to change that.  

On top of all this, the number of dead from coronavirus is a byproduct of the steps we've been taking as a society.  If we had not been social distancing for the last 5 weeks, we could be dealing with a number far higher.