posted by kizer permanente

8071 cases today. 

For comparison on 10/13 (a month ago) we had 1447 new cases. 

posted by geeblock

I think the workers are overwhelmed at times even if there are beds especially as they get short staff

This can be very true. I know a nurse that during the worst time in New York City back in April/May. She was offered something like $10,000/month to live in a self isolated/paid for apartment and work in the COVID wards there. Her hospital she works at now was going to allow her to go and still have her job when she gets back.

However, she decided she didn't want to spend a whole month or 2 away from her husband and kids.

For for $10k/mo I definitely would have had that as a serious conversation with my wife and kids, that's a good payday. I am sure she did to and just chose not to.

They were offering that kind of money because they were short staffed due to workers getting sick and/or workers refusing to come in due to the chance at getting sick.

posted by gut

If you want to take a step back and look at the data and what is actually being said...

Wearing masks and distancing in a small gathering, enjoy up to 2 hours with your family over Thanksgiving.  Ignore that, and a "at risk" exposure is defined as 15 minutes.  So those simple and basic inconveniences provide up to 8X the protection. 

You can socialize responsibly, but people are choosing not to.  We're not being asked to give up a lot, but a lot of people ignoring those guidelines and fueling the spread are the same people bitching about lockdowns preventing people from earning a living. 

Also, one CDC official testified before Congress given the choice between a vaccine that is 50-60% effective and a mask to protect himself, he'd choose the mask.  Might have been the same guy, but another CDC person recently said they have data now that shows masks provide 70% protection for the person wearing them (he was holding up a surgical mask when he said that - KN95 are even better).  I would say not only is that pretty good, that's better than almost everyone thought.

I seriously want to know where everyone else is going around in public and seeing all these people ignoring guidelines?

I have not only live and work in the Akron/Cleveland area but travel a lot for work. I would anecdotally (yeah, I know..) estimate that 98% of the people I see in public wearing a mask. I am sure that the vast majority of the 2% are "muh rights!" people and don't actually have a health problem.

So, even if I am guesstimating too high and its 95%. In areas I am at, 95% are wearing masks and the cases are still skyrocketing.

If that is the case and masks work, then the spread is happening to people staying in doors with their family right?

So tell me again how a lockdown and telling people to stay home (mostly) with their families will work again?

We all agree that lockdowns "flattened" the curve, but what isn't being addressed is that it doesn't change the total cases, total hospitalizations, and maybe not even the total deaths. It just pushes that "peak" out until you decide to open up again. 

Well, originally it was going to be 2-3 weeks. That was 7 months ago. Now they are saying "maybe just another month or two"...

People are tired, tired emotionally, physically, and mentally. Suicide rates are up something like 700% during lockdowns. Lock it down again, people get laid off at Christmas and suicides go up even more. The small gains from lockdowns would just be off set by mental health problems it causes, economic problems it causes, etc.

https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-11-12/covid-19-spread-at-thanksgiving-holiday-gatherings-could-be-like-maine-wedding?_amp=true&__twitter_impression=true

"jUsT StAy hOmE If yOu'Re sCaReD."

Cool, how about the people who don't attend weddings or parties or go to bars or restaurants, but then have to sit next to these selfish assholes at work? Some of these idiots went to work WHILE symptomatic. It's so depressing to me that people aren't willing to do the bare minimum to protect their fellow human beings. 

And yes, jmog and CC, I'm already aware that the people who died were old. Spare me.

Oh and I also live in Akron and there are plenty of people here who do not wear masks and who love to crowd people in line. I see it every time I go to the grocery store or gas station. There is not 95% mask usage here. 

posted by jmog

You went on a four letter word laden rant because someone took the best statistics we have from the ODH and said that it doesn’t appear that the hospitals are about to be overwhelmed.

So, your four letter word laden rant filled with anecdotal from your hospital, while probably all true, doesn’t mean it is the same at the majority of hospitals in the state right now, as evidence by the ODH data.

No one is saying your statements are false, even though you appeared to be severely triggered by it based on your rant.

No one is saying your experience is wrong, but you have to also understand that your experience may not be state or nation wide based on the best data we have.

Telling people to “fuck off” on reading actual data and just accept that your anecdotal is true across the board is just as asinine as if someone said your experience is wrong and made up.

It’s absolutely true across the board. Are you living in a cave? 

Here’s a good read on it if you’re interested. There’s several states across the country referenced saying exactly what I am. You should pay special attention to the part about proning a few paragraphs down. It’s a good example of something that takes a lot of time and resources, and won’t show up on the ODH website for assholes such as yourself to obsess over. 

https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/617091/

You’re the one who is triggered and maybe should accept there’s more to it than numbers on a website. Maybe listen to the people actually going through it before telling them their hospitals aren’t being overwhelmed. It’s just incredibly ignorant of you. Not sure how else to put it. 

posted by friendfromlowry

I don't see where anyone told you that you shouldn't believe the Ohio DOH website numbers. Maybe I missed that post? 

My point is don't look at those numbers alone and consider yourself in any position to conclude hospitals aren't overwhelmed. As someone else said, these patients require more intense, time consuming care. It takes a lot resources to care for the very sick patients. 

So it is a labor shortage, not so much an overwhelming number of patients overwhelming hospitals. 

posted by QuakerOats

So it is a labor shortage, not so much an overwhelming number of patients overwhelming hospitals. 

So everything is fine as long as there's an open bed? I guess Covid patients don't need anyone to care for them. They can just lie there and rest until they die.

posted by QuakerOats

So it is a labor shortage, not so much an overwhelming number of patients overwhelming hospitals. 

It’s sick Covid patients overwhelmingly difficult to care for. 

posted by QuakerOats

So it is a labor shortage, not so much an overwhelming number of patients overwhelming hospitals. 

Lol jfc

posted by Fab4Runner

https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-11-12/covid-19-spread-at-thanksgiving-holiday-gatherings-could-be-like-maine-wedding?_amp=true&__twitter_impression=true

"jUsT StAy hOmE If yOu'Re sCaReD."

Cool, how about the people who don't attend weddings or parties or go to bars or restaurants, but then have to sit next to these selfish assholes at work? Some of these idiots went to work WHILE symptomatic. It's so depressing to me that people aren't willing to do the bare minimum to protect their fellow human beings. 

And yes, jmog and CC, I'm already aware that the people who died were old. Spare me.

Fuck off, wasn't going to minimize anyone's deaths and fuck you for believing I would.

If you can quote one single fucking time I minimalized ANYONE's death, or even said something along the lines "well, open up because only the old people will die" then please quote it.

If you can't then you owe me an apology and again fuck you.

posted by friendfromlowry

It’s absolutely true across the board. Are you living in a cave? 

Here’s a good read on it if you’re interested. There’s several states across the country referenced saying exactly what I am. You should pay special attention to the part about proning a few paragraphs down. It’s a good example of something that takes a lot of time and resources, and won’t show up on the ODH website for assholes such as yourself to obsess over. 

https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/617091/

You’re the one who is triggered and maybe should accept there’s more to it than numbers on a website. Maybe listen to the people actually going through it before telling them their hospitals aren’t being overwhelmed. It’s just incredibly ignorant of you. Not sure how else to put it. 

You should read your posts, and then read mine, and tell me again who is triggered.

The only post that even remotely triggered me was F4R BS just a minute ago insinuating I would minimize someone's death. That was bull shit.

You have gone off the wagon with your responses to someone posting data and making data backed statements/opinions about the data. You don't understand the meaning of the word triggered if you don't see it in your posts.

posted by kizer permanente

Lol jfc

Let me help you; the bed capacity exists, so the hospitals are not overwhelmed (yet, anyway).  So if you have available bed capacity, but not enough help to care for the patients, that would be a labor shortage.

Have a good weekend.

A couple weeks ago we were treating an elderly man with Covid who had went to a wedding recently. Initially he wasn’t too sick. I talked with him a bit, really nice guy, and acknowledged it wasn’t his best idea. When I came back days later he was on the ventilator. We threw every treatment and trick at him over the next several days, he didn’t get better. He eventually coded and died. 

His wife it turns out was also sick on a ventilator at another nearby hospital. She was expected to live and when she was extubated (taken off ventilator, off sedation) she’d be informed her husband had died alone. 

So, I guess I’m “triggered and off the wagon” to some tool who doesn’t know what he’s talking about. 

posted by friendfromlowry

A couple weeks ago we were treating an elderly man with Covid who had went to a wedding recently. Initially he wasn’t too sick. I talked with him a bit, really nice guy, and acknowledged it wasn’t his best idea. When I came back days later he was on the ventilator. We threw every treatment and trick at him over the next several days, he didn’t get better. He eventually coded and died. 

His wife it turns out was also sick on a ventilator at another nearby hospital. She was expected to live and when she was extubated (taken off ventilator, off sedation) she’d be informed her husband had died alone. 

So, I guess I’m “triggered and off the wagon” to some tool who doesn’t know what he’s talking about. 

Your posts absolutely show you are triggered. You are not coming with logic and reason just cussing rants. We can always start over from here, but there is little down your first couple posts here were quite obviously triggered.

You got bent out of shape because someone posted data from ODH and opined that it didn't show hospitals were overwhelmed yet. I mean seriously, you should read your reply to that post and seriously try to explain how it wasn't triggered.

I’m going to check out of this argument. I posted an Atlantic article citing what I was saying simply asking you to consider there’s more to being overwhelmed than numbers. To look at a bigger picture. That’s literally all I’ve been asking of you. You instead respond with paragraphs about who’s more triggered. I honestly feel like I’m being trolled. I need to bookmark this the next time I’m tempted to debate with you and realize it’s the same as talking to a wall. 

posted by friendfromlowry

I’m going to check out of this argument. I posted an Atlantic article citing what I was saying simply asking you to consider there’s more to being overwhelmed than numbers. To look at a bigger picture. That’s literally all I’ve been asking of you. You instead respond with paragraphs about who’s more triggered. I honestly feel like I’m being trolled. I need to bookmark this the next time I’m tempted to debate with you and realize it’s the same as talking to a wall. 

So you fly off the handle then blame it all on me. Interesting tactic I guess.

posted by jmog

People are tired, tired emotionally, physically, and mentally. Suicide rates are up something like 700% during lockdowns. Lock it down again, people get laid off at Christmas and suicides go up even more. The small gains from lockdowns would just be off set by mental health problems it causes, economic problems it causes, etc.

Ah, the "you" problem as a poster stated on here, shut down lives for the few who get critical is the narrative 

posted by QuakerOats

Let me help you; the bed capacity exists, so the hospitals are not overwhelmed (yet, anyway).  So if you have available bed capacity, but not enough help to care for the patients, that would be a labor shortage.

Have a good weekend.

posted by jmog

Your posts absolutely show you are triggered. You are not coming with logic and reason just cussing rants. We can always start over from here, but there is little down your first couple posts here were quite obviously triggered.

You got bent out of shape because someone posted data from ODH and opined that it didn't show hospitals were overwhelmed yet. I mean seriously, you should read your reply to that post and seriously try to explain how it wasn't triggered.

You can actually both be right. That the data don't show the hospitals are overwhelmed does not prove that some or all are not.

Guys...this sucks for literally every person in some way or another.

Some of you should probably step away from all of this for a day or so...or maybe seek a low dose medicine or maybe just a sedative.

We are too far in for anyone to change anyone else’s mind.

Enjoy your weekend

posted by queencitybuckeye

You can actually both be right. That the data don't show the hospitals are overwhelmed does not prove that some or all are not.

I'm reasonably certain cities/states across the US, and countries all over the world, aren't using some bullshit hospital capacity issue to deliberately cause severe hardships in order to usher in a new world economic order.

Maybe they're enduring major economic harm because the strain on the healthcare system is actually real.  What a novel idea!

Hospital capacity was designed for peak flu season, not the 1 in 100 year pandemic.

posted by queencitybuckeye

You can actually both be right. That the data don't show the hospitals are overwhelmed does not prove that some or all are not.

I agree and actually said that.

Don’t tell friend that though.

I’m not anti mask at all. My city has a mandate in it everywhere. But another lockdown will absolutely bankrupt restaurants and tourism companies. Which will kill not only those businesses, but all the workers down the line. Like it or not, The Dems blocked any sort of government funds to them bc they added a fuck ton of pork to their stupid bills. Our government as a whole is fucking garbage. 

posted by Fab4Runner

https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-11-12/covid-19-spread-at-thanksgiving-holiday-gatherings-could-be-like-maine-wedding?_amp=true&__twitter_impression=true

"jUsT StAy hOmE If yOu'Re sCaReD."

Cool, how about the people who don't attend weddings or parties or go to bars or restaurants, but then have to sit next to these selfish assholes at work? Some of these idiots went to work WHILE symptomatic. It's so depressing to me that people aren't willing to do the bare minimum to protect their fellow human beings. 

And yes, jmog and CC, I'm already aware that the people who died were old. Spare me.

Yes, let's lock everyone down, because there are a few selfish assholes in the world who do shit like this.