posted by gut

Fauci said "anyone who wants it will get it by the end of April". 

Moderna has a very similar vaccine with likely similar efficacy, and I think we have another 300M doses coming from Astrazeneca.  That is, I believe, only 1 shot.  The other two require two shots....so between those 3 alone I think we have purchased 400M vaccinations already.

It's been said herd immunity might be 60-80% coverage, and some have debated it could be much lower than that.

Thank you for using "herd immunity" correctly, not in the incorrect context some think it means which is basically "fuck it, open it all". Hint: Sweden's approach was/is NOT "herd immunity".

posted by geeblock

I have to agree w jmog which is rare .. a vaccine being available is a long way away.. seems like we are just delaying the imev

I have to agree with gblock, which is rare.  The governments have strung us along with bullshit for 9 months to justify prolonging restrictions and ultimately a lockdown. I can already tell they are going to dangle the vaccine “carrot” to justify lockdowns and extending them. It’s the same exact playbook they used with “fLatTeN tHe CuRve.” They started with two weeks and then kept extending and extending for 2 more weeks to flatten the curve.  I will be happy to be wrong if the vaccine is being distributed in December, but until then spare me the vaccine bullshit as justification to lock people down and ruin their lives. Especially now that we have more data showing the fatality rate is actually pretty low and still decreasing.

I already said numerous times that masks don’t do what most people think it will do. They help, but 100% compliance was not going to prevent hospitals from avoiding their current status. We have an abundance of countries that have much stricter mask laws and more people following the laws, and yet their hospitals are just as overburdened. I am someone pre-covid (or during covid), that gets pissed when people show up to work sick and/or doesn’t follow common courtesy when sick (I.e. covering mouth when coughing). So, I don’t disagree regarding people being assholes.  Even with the rights people. They have every right to be an asshole, but it doesn’t change their fact that they are being assholes. I still think the sanctimonious mask crowd are more obnoxious than the muh rights crowd. 99% of the former I find to be very hypocritical, because they justify their own arbitrary rules when it’s ok for them to not be 100% compliant. We have plenty on this site. 

posted by like_that

I have to agree with gblock, which is rare.  The governments have strung us along with bullshit for 9 months to justify prolonging restrictions and ultimately a lockdown. I can already tell they are going to dangle the vaccine “carrot” to justify lockdowns and extending them. It’s the same exact playbook they used with “fLatTeN tHe CuRve.” They started with two weeks and then kept extending and extending for 2 more weeks to flatten the curve.  I will be happy to be wrong if the vaccine is being distributed in December, but until then spare me the vaccine bullshit as justification to lock people down and ruin their lives. Especially now that we have more data showing the fatality rate is actually pretty low and still decreasing.

I already said numerous times that masks don’t do what most people think it will do. They help, but 100% compliance was not going to prevent hospitals from avoiding their current status. We have an abundance of countries that have much stricter mask laws and more people following the laws, and yet their hospitals are just as overburdened. I am someone pre-covid (or during covid), that gets pissed when people show up to work sick and/or doesn’t follow common courtesy when sick (I.e. covering mouth when coughing). So, I don’t disagree regarding people being assholes.  Even with the rights people. They have every right to be an asshole, but it doesn’t change their fact that they are being assholes. I still think the sanctimonious mask crowd are more obnoxious than the muh rights crowd. 99% of the former I find to be very hypocritical, because they justify their own arbitrary rules when it’s ok for them to not be 100% compliant. We have plenty on this site. 

Watch out, gut is going to say you are intellectually dishonest, mainly just because he doesn’t agree with you.

One of Biden’s task force members wants a 4-6 week national lockdown. 

I see Ticketmaster is gonna require immunization record of covid to purchase tickets. Everyone is losing their mind. 

Don’t buy tickets from them then?

I bet you others follow suit though. 

I think the problem with lockdowns is multi-fold.

1. They're impossible to fully enforce. When you have jobs deemed essential that aren't pure 8-5 deals, it's not like police can (or would be willing to) just start pulling people over because they're on the road at, say, 6 p.m., so if a person wants to hang out at a friend's or have a small get-together, there's probably a .0001% chance that anything would be done barring a neighbor being one of those "call the cops on 10+ people" narcs. When you take away people who aren't locked down due to having jobs where it's essential to be at the workplace, it's already not going to be a perfect success and then take away the people who have no desire to be cooped up at home all day, every day, it's just going to get worse and worse.

2. At least in Ohio, I think there would be diminishing returns on the success of a lockdown because there already was one and either due to #1 or other factors (or both), it lowered numbers for a few months, only for them to rise a lot when school started and the weather got cooler. Asking people to go through that again, along with the economic ramifications, simply to bandage the wound and provide a bridge to the hypothetical date a vaccine is available isn't going to have the same effect it did in April.

3. This is one of those things where typical vague poli-speak like "flatten the curve" and so forth really isn't going to work with people because it's something that openly effects their lives on a day-to-day basis. If DeWine had initially phrased things bluntly along the lines of "This is the plan: Lockdown for 2 weeks, this stuff will open then, this stuff will open the next week and so on. When everything is opened, we'll reevaluate our progress and determine the next course of action", while using those weeks to plan out said course, things could have worked out more smoothly. Instead, it was week after week of his lame-ass daily briefings (wife's recipes, little kids on Tik Tok, his ties, gotta fill 30+ minutes somehow; MAN, THIS IS SERIOUS!!!!!) filled with generic "we're doing good; we know this is tough; stay the course" lines that only seemed to desensitize people (at least in my general circle) from any potential threat.

posted by Heretic

I think the problem with lockdowns is multi-fold.

1. They're impossible to fully enforce. When you have jobs deemed essential that aren't pure 8-5 deals, it's not like police can (or would be willing to) just start pulling people over because they're on the road at, say, 6 p.m., so if a person wants to hang out at a friend's or have a small get-together, there's probably a .0001% chance that anything would be done barring a neighbor being one of those "call the cops on 10+ people" narcs. When you take away people who aren't locked down due to having jobs where it's essential to be at the workplace, it's already not going to be a perfect success and then take away the people who have no desire to be cooped up at home all day, every day, it's just going to get worse and worse.

2. At least in Ohio, I think there would be diminishing returns on the success of a lockdown because there already was one and either due to #1 or other factors (or both), it lowered numbers for a few months, only for them to rise a lot when school started and the weather got cooler. Asking people to go through that again, along with the economic ramifications, simply to bandage the wound and provide a bridge to the hypothetical date a vaccine is available isn't going to have the same effect it did in April.

3. This is one of those things where typical vague poli-speak like "flatten the curve" and so forth really isn't going to work with people because it's something that openly effects their lives on a day-to-day basis. If DeWine had initially phrased things bluntly along the lines of "This is the plan: Lockdown for 2 weeks, this stuff will open then, this stuff will open the next week and so on. When everything is opened, we'll reevaluate our progress and determine the next course of action", while using those weeks to plan out said course, things could have worked out more smoothly. Instead, it was week after week of his lame-ass daily briefings (wife's recipes, little kids on Tik Tok, his ties, gotta fill 30+ minutes somehow; MAN, THIS IS SERIOUS!!!!!) filled with generic "we're doing good; we know this is tough; stay the course" lines that only seemed to desensitize people (at least in my general circle) from any potential threat.

100% agreed.

Gut will probably say you are intellectually dishonest however, so there's that.

Quarantines don't work, masks don't work, the vaccine is a hoax....LMFAO this thread went full Alex Jones.

I mean... we’ve only done quarantines throughout our entire existence as human beings when pandemics happened, but yeah, people in 2020 are so smart that they know they don’t work. 

posted by gut

Quarantines don't work, masks don't work, the vaccine is a hoax....LMFAO this thread went full Alex Jones.

Now, you are being intellectually dishonest. 

posted by gut

Quarantines don't work, masks don't work, the vaccine is a hoax....LMFAO this thread went full Alex Jones.

Maybe you are reading a completely different thread than the rest of us? Because really none of that was actually said (by anyone not named QO or Spock, I tend to ignore their posts so they might have said it).

posted by gut

Quarantines don't work, masks don't work, the vaccine is a hoax....LMFAO this thread went full Alex Jones.

Talk about intellectually dishonest....

7101 cases today.  

Remember when we laughed at acton for saying 10k cases a day lol. Good times. 

posted by jmog

Talk about intellectually dishonest....

LOL, indeed you are.  You've clowned yourself all over this thread.

The evidence is out there that masks and lockdowns are far more effective than you guys will acknowledge.  And I was right there with you early in the pandemic, but I've changed my opinion as data and research has evolved.  That's what intellectually honest people do.  People who are open-minded let the data guide them, not cherry pick as you've done all over this thread to prop-up you're repeated bad calls.  I don't know if you're actually that uninformed, or just trying way too hard to look smart by being contrarian.

And someone else was just saying we were being strung along with the vaccine.

So, no, my statement was not intellectually dishonest...but you saying it was is you doing it, again.

posted by kizer permanente

7101 cases today.  

Remember when we laughed at acton for saying 10k cases a day lol. Good times. 

Said that would be in mid April though

posted by Ironman92

Said that would be in mid April though

Yeah I wonder what’s different about then versus now? 

I’m not saying that quarantines don’t work. Of course they work. But as soon as u remove them you are right back where you were. I don’t think a 6 month quarantine until we can get the vaccine is appropriate either 

posted by geeblock

I’m not saying that quarantines don’t work. Of course they work. But as soon as u remove them you are right back where you were. I don’t think a 6 month quarantine until we can get the vaccine is appropriate either 

That’s fine but neither is overwhelming a hospital system. You don’t have to shut everything down like they did last time but you have to shutdown the super spreaders. 

posted by Ironman92

Said that would be in mid April though

Last night I saw a recording of her saying 6-8000 cases a day in the fall.

posted by kizer permanente

That’s fine but neither is overwhelming a hospital system. You don’t have to shut everything down like they did last time but you have to shutdown the super spreaders. 

i mean half the dudes i see in the bar restrooms dont even wash their hands...it isnt just about what is open and whats not open, its about people taking personal responsibility to wash their hands and monitor their health.

posted by geeblock

i mean half the dudes i see in the bar restrooms dont even wash their hands...it isnt just about what is open and whats not open, its about people taking personal responsibility to wash their hands and monitor their health.

That’s fine but the overwhelming majority of spread of this is breathing water droplets. Cant do that without close confined spaces.

posted by jmog

Maybe you are reading a completely different thread than the rest of us? Because really none of that was actually said (by anyone not named QO or Spock, I tend to ignore their posts so they might have said it).

Another flagrant foul; one more and you might get put on lockdown.  

posted by kizer permanente

That’s fine but neither is overwhelming a hospital system. You don’t have to shut everything down like they did last time but you have to shutdown the super spreaders. 

The math, in Ohio at least, does not support the hospitals being 'overwhelmed', yet anyway.  2,600 hospitalizations across 200 or so hospitals = 13 per hospital.  If 13 extra people can overwhelm a hospital, then something else is wrong.

posted by QuakerOats

The math, in Ohio at least, does not support the hospitals being 'overwhelmed', yet anyway.  2,600 hospitalizations across 200 or so hospitals = 13 per hospital.  If 13 extra people can overwhelm a hospital, then something else is wrong.

Yet ....it’s November  it’s just started cold weather season. It’s already trending there though.   

posted by gut

LOL, indeed you are.  You've clowned yourself all over this thread.

The evidence is out there that masks and lockdowns are far more effective than you guys will acknowledge.  And I was right there with you early in the pandemic, but I've changed my opinion as data and research has evolved.  That's what intellectually honest people do.  People who are open-minded let the data guide them, not cherry pick as you've done all over this thread to prop-up you're repeated bad calls.  I don't know if you're actually that uninformed, or just trying way too hard to look smart by being contrarian.

And someone else was just saying we were being strung along with the vaccine.

So, no, my statement was not intellectually dishonest...but you saying it was is you doing it, again.