posted by Spock

There is no way that online schooling is effective.  It doesnt work for 95% of students.

How are special ed, IEP kids getting any interventions?  How are elementary kids learning when literally nobody is teaching them?

How about HS kids that are already checked out and just playing school to graduate?  They get up at 2pm and the by that time their PLP teachers day is over and they were trying to contact them at 10am for remote teaching.

Teaching HS would be a 2nd shift job.

Just bc you can’t throw a ball at a kid thru a monitor doesn’t mean that’s true for other teachers.

posted by queencitybuckeye

The bulk of adult education is now some form of "remote learning". Are there studies that show a median age below which such learning isn't effective?

The reason it’s ineffective is bc our society needs school for childcare. So since we don’t have anyone watching our kids for us, they need to be in school. Even stay at home moms are missing out on their mom dates at Starbucks after drop off so we need kids in school. 

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Beyond that, we don't "control" a virus. It does it's thing until prospective hosts are too few to promulgate it. 

A picture truly does say 1000 words....

Georgia Tech football game during 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic (estimated to have killed up to 50M worldwide....which would probably be like 250M today).

posted by kizer permanente

So since we don’t have anyone watching our kids for us, they need to be in school.

I think it's difficult to expect gradeschool kids to have the self-discipline to learn online, especially if unsupervised.  And it's hard enough getting junior high kids to pay attention.

I'm sure some things are different and teachers can give kids who are struggling some brief 1-on-1 help.  But most of my memories from school, even from early grade school, are teachers basically lecturing and writing on a chalkboard.  I think online and AI has the potential to be superior.

Do I think teacher unions have commissioned study after study to show online learning is inferior?  Yes, yes I do.

posted by gut

I think it's difficult to expect gradeschool kids to have the self-discipline to learn online, especially if unsupervised.  And it's hard enough getting junior high kids to pay attention.

I'm sure some things are different and teachers can give kids who are struggling some brief 1-on-1 help.  But most of my memories from school, even from early grade school, are teachers basically lecturing and writing on a chalkboard.  I think online and AI has the potential to be superior.

Do I think teacher unions have commissioned study after study to show online learning is inferior?  Yes, yes I do.

I would say in the past it absolutely was inferior in every single way. I also think you can’t discount what tech has done to close that gap. I think given the current times it’s by far the best option we have. 

posted by gut

A picture truly does say 1000 words....

Georgia Tech football game during 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic (estimated to have killed up to 50M worldwide....which would probably be like 250M today).

Some of those words could be "We wore masks and it still killed 50 million"   Says alot about masks

Over 15,000 kids in the LA school district didnt even log onto their online learning in March, April and May.  Let that sink in on how effective online learning is.

posted by Spock

Over 15,000 kids in the LA school district didnt even log onto their online learning in March, April and May.  Let that sink in on how effective online learning is.

25% of high schoolers in los angelos county don’t graduate high school. So it seems like in person isn’t very great either huh? 

posted by gut

A picture truly does say 1000 words....

Georgia Tech football game during 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic (estimated to have killed up to 50M worldwide....which would probably be like 250M today).

A lot of fans! That’s a no no

posted by kizer permanente

this was literally just you ...

You obviously don’t have kids doing it!!!!!

Oh you do.... anecdotal!!!!

Lol 

Yup, I was wrong in the first post. You are the first parent I have seen that has said online schooling is working better.

posted by kizer permanente

It literally just started a couple months ago and you’re telling me they have studies on it.

So are you full of shit all the time or just when you feel the need to be right? 

So you really believe that no one did online schooling before March? 

Have you seriously never heard of any of the online “homeschooling” schools like K-12, ECOT, etc?

Kids have done online schooling for years. This isn’t new.

posted by Spock

Over 15,000 kids in the LA school district didnt even log onto their online learning in March, April and May.  Let that sink in on how effective online learning is.

My cousin teaches for Akron Public Schools. She teaches JH math and science.

She said 30+% of her students didn’t log in at all in the Spring. And she wasn’t allowed, by rule of the school district, to give them any grade lower in the 4th period than they got in the 3rd. 

posted by jmog

So you really believe that no one did online schooling before March? 

Have you seriously never heard of any of the online “homeschooling” schools like K-12, ECOT, etc?

Kids have done online schooling for years. This isn’t new.

Ecot was a scam so that’s not a great example. When schools went virtual last semester it was literally overnight. There was no plan, it was pure reaction. It was terrible but that was to be expected given the circumstances. There’s no comparison between this past spring and this fall semester. The delivery is 100% different. Parents had to become the teacher in spring. You have a teacher delivering the education this fall. 

posted by kizer permanente

Ecot was a scam so that’s not a great example. When schools went virtual last semester it was literally overnight. There was no plan, it was pure reaction. It was terrible but that was to be expected given the circumstances. There’s no comparison between this past spring and this fall semester. The delivery is 100% different. Parents had to become the teacher in spring. You have a teacher delivering the education this fall. 

It is not working well for a lot of kids because they either don't have the technology/WiFi, no one at home to support them, these teachers weren't trained to do this, but most of all, children are social animals and need human interaction to learn. There is so much a child needs at school that cannot be replicated at home. For all of your examples of wonderful online learning, there are plenty of kids who are miserable and have fallen way behind. And that's got nothing to do with parents "using school as a babysitter". 

If someone wants their kid to learn online, fine that's their perogative. But for the majority that want their kids in a classroom, that should be available. The risks of COVID simply don't rise to - or come anywhere close to rising to - a level that warrants schools being closed. 

My educated opinion is a credible online experience can equal a credible typical elementary school for a handful of kids. Browsing through my particular school K-6th around 400 students...I can list about 15 kids that would be all the same with virtual learning. To me the other 385 are marginally better off to greatly better off being at school.

The number does increase to me as they get older but personal experience with my son doing everything and more virtually March-May....he still learned but says it’s not even close to as good as what he’s getting in the classroom...and I have one of those kids who is virtually a 0% social kid. He’s at school to learn and the extras others enjoy he just doesn’t have much to do with. Does enjoy band class...but the teacher being right there and teaching is greatly better for him he says. The majority of his class that chose the online version....#1 reason is they just want to sleep in.

These are just my thoughts as a teacher in an elementary school of a very rural school district with a very intelligent son attending a SE district high school. I don’t have the foggiest idea of what’s best for Cleveland, LA and other parts of America.

posted by kizer permanente

Ecot was a scam so that’s not a great example. When schools went virtual last semester it was literally overnight. There was no plan, it was pure reaction. It was terrible but that was to be expected given the circumstances. There’s no comparison between this past spring and this fall semester. The delivery is 100% different. Parents had to become the teacher in spring. You have a teacher delivering the education this fall. 

You ignore the premise of the post, that online doesn't work as well as in class for K-12 age stuends, to point out that one of the online systems went bankrupt. That doesn't help your argument. That the largest online K-12 in ECOT school in the nation went belly up...

Columbus has 14 overdose deaths this weekend 0 Covid deaths 

posted by sportchampps

Columbus has 14 overdose deaths this weekend 0 Covid deaths 

pls stay on topic

Yeah I’m not quite seeing the relevance. 

posted by kizer permanente

The reason it’s ineffective is bc our society needs school for childcare. So since we don’t have anyone watching our kids for us, they need to be in school. Even stay at home moms are missing out on their mom dates at Starbucks after drop off so we need kids in school. 

I hate this argument, because the premise is parents send their kids to school for "childcare."  Yeah, there are definitely shitty parents that use school as a daycare system, but most parents aren't sending little billy to school with the expectation that he doesn't learn anything.  There is a reason why parents are paying property taxes.  I also hate this argument, because it assumes that the US is the only country that has this societal structure.  Look at the majority of first world countries.  Most parents are banking on schools to educate their kids, while the parents make money to support their family.  The are also paying taxes to have this need provided to them. This structure isn't exclusive to the US.  

If schools are going to insist on keeping kids at home and as a result keeping parents home (aka taking away a source of their income), then all of these parents should be getting a refund on their property taxes.  Allow the parents to invest in their Children's education. 

posted by like_that

I hate this argument, because the premise is parents send their kids to school for "childcare."  Yeah, there are definitely shitty parents that use school as a daycare system, but most parents aren't sending little billy to school with the expectation that he doesn't learn anything.  There is a reason why parents are paying property taxes.  I also hate this argument, because it assumes that the US is the only country that has this societal structure.  Look at the majority of first world countries.  Most parents are banking on schools to educate their kids, while the parents make money to support their family.  The are also paying taxes to have this need provided to them. This structure isn't exclusive to the US.  

If schools are going to insist on keeping kids at home and as a result keeping parents home (aka taking away a source of their income), then all of these parents should be getting a refund on their property taxes.  Allow the parents to invest in their Children's education. 

But it’s the reason this can’t work during a pandemic. It’s also the reason flu gets out of control during flu season. Parents send their kids sick to school all of the time for this reason. They have to work and can’t do anything else about it. You don’t think parents are sending their kids to school with covid for the same reasons? 

posted by kizer permanente

But it’s the reason this can’t work during a pandemic. It’s also the reason flu gets out of control during flu season. Parents send their kids sick to school all of the time for this reason. They have to work and can’t do anything else about it. You don’t think parents are sending their kids to school with covid for the same reasons? 

There is truth to this.

posted by kizer permanente

But it’s the reason this can’t work during a pandemic. It’s also the reason flu gets out of control during flu season.

That's why we need more paid sick leave for parents!!!!   [/sarca font]

But when does a light bulb go on with all these people out of work that "hey! maybe we can offer better unemployment benefits and utilize people looking for work that have already had Covid"

Went back and re-read the first few pages of this thread from early April. Some good lulz back then.

posted by justincredible

Went back and re-read the first few pages of this thread from early April. Some good lulz back then.

I had a plumber the other day, and while he's writing up my bill on the TV they were talking about Covid deaths.  And he went full QO with "yeah, someone's in the hospital dying of cancer for a month, and then they get Covid guess what the cause of death is?".

So then I have to quickly ponder what the best response is to get him out of my house.  Do I say "yeah right?", and appear to by a sympathizer and risk him further engaging in dialogue?  Do I say "oh, didn't know that", and risk having him attempt to educate me?  I went with a knowing nod, and that did just the trick.

It was just a matter-of-fact current state of affairs report, and the dude was triggered.