posted by ptown_trojans_1

I agree that the IVF facility should be held liable given this circumstance.

However, your last few sentences is what worries me. The issues on where life begins and when it is viable are religious, moral, ethical, and scientific questions. 

It is not a matter of government. I think many of here would agree with that. The last thing we want is one particular religious view dictating when life begins for all. 

So. There is some portion of you, also, that definitely is leaning into libertarianism lol!

Doesn't mean you have swan-dived into it, just some leanings. Which is what the majority of us on this site can agree to.

posted by iclfan2

I’ll let you know if I die before then. It’s a simple thing that can be minimized, and Biden didn’t  and then tried to blame the right (there is no detriment to blocking the border, but ok!). There are plenty of other reasons I won’t vote for that, but it’s easy shit like slowing the border that should have been done. I’m pretty sure you know what party is giving no bail or whatever in the name of equity too. 

I’m still willing to bet that your outrage will be focused - for you - on something different in 12 months.

posted by geeblock

However at some point “god” said black people did not qualify as real people which was decided by “men”? 

I promise slavery has not affected you at all, just like it hasn’t anyone who is alive right now.

posted by jmog

I promise slavery has not affected you at all, just like it hasn’t anyone who is alive right now.

Well they had to bring the national guard to the schools so my father could attend a decent school and there were riots when he attended college, my parents were married 9 months after interracial marriage was made legal in 1968, so yea I wouldn’t have to mention slavery.  That argument about no one being alive when there were slaves has to be the top 10 dumbest arguments someone could make. Great job  .

 However the driving force behind much of the hatred was backed by religion which was more my point than anything having to do with my life but thanks for chiming in with something that wasn’t said. 

The whole point had very little to do with slavery but the fact that religion all over the world was often used for man’s objectives. Weather we look at Israel/palestine, the crusades, nazis, manifest destiny or *gasp*slavery. I wasn’t alive for most of those but see how easy it is to reference something I wasn’t around for? Do better. 

Side note. White people telling black people how they haven’t had to experience racism will never not be funny to me. 

posted by geeblock

Well they had to bring the national guard to the schools so my father could attend a decent school and there were riots when he attended college, my parents were married 9 months after interracial marriage was made legal in 1968, so yea I wouldn’t have to mention slavery.  That argument about no one being alive when there were slaves has to be the top 10 dumbest arguments someone could make. Great job  .

 However the driving force behind much of the hatred was backed by religion which was more my point than anything having to do with my life but thanks for chiming in with something that wasn’t said. 

The whole point had very little to do with slavery but the fact that religion all over the world was often used for man’s objectives. Weather we look at Israel/palestine, the crusades, nazis, manifest destiny or *gasp*slavery. I wasn’t alive for most of those but see how easy it is to reference something I wasn’t around for? Do better. 

Slavery and racism aren't exactly the same as I think that is the disconnect. 

You are combining the two.

I also think you are being too general about slavery and religion in the Constitution. The founding fathers were all over the place faith wise, but all agreed in some sort of higher power. See Jeffersons Bible as one example. 

 If you have to condemn religion for slavery you must also acknowledge it had a big hand in its defeat here. The anti-slavery movement of the 19th century was mostly driven by Christians and people from the north. 

I get what you are saying, I think, but you are just combining a lot and making broad generalizations.

posted by geeblock

Well they had to bring the national guard to the schools so my father could attend a decent school and there were riots when he attended college, my parents were married 9 months after interracial marriage was made legal in 1968, so yea I wouldn’t have to mention slavery.  That argument about no one being alive when there were slaves has to be the top 10 dumbest arguments someone could make. Great job  .

 However the driving force behind much of the hatred was backed by religion which was more my point than anything having to do with my life but thanks for chiming in with something that wasn’t said. 

The whole point had very little to do with slavery but the fact that religion all over the world was often used for man’s objectives. Weather we look at Israel/palestine, the crusades, nazis, manifest destiny or *gasp*slavery. I wasn’t alive for most of those but see how easy it is to reference something I wasn’t around for? Do better. 

I didn't say no one alive has been affected by racism or Jim Crowe laws. So before you call someone else stupid, actually read what they typed.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Slavery and racism aren't exactly the same as I think that is the disconnect. 

You are combining the two.

I also think you are being too general about slavery and religion in the Constitution. The founding fathers were all over the place faith wise, but all agreed in some sort of higher power. See Jeffersons Bible as one example. 

 If you have to condemn religion for slavery you must also acknowledge it had a big hand in its defeat here. The anti-slavery movement of the 19th century was mostly driven by Christians and people from the north. 

I get what you are saying, I think, but you are just combining a lot and making broad generalizations.

Ptown and I actually agree here.

Slavery has had zero to do with religion in most parts of the world. Slavery has existed in about every civilization ever, most of which weren't Christian.

Yes, some Christians used parts of the Bible to support slavery, while others properly used the Bible to fight against slavery during the Civil War and the Abolitionist Era before/after it. 

posted by geeblock

Side note. White people telling black people how they haven’t had to experience racism will never not be funny to me. 

Just admit when you say something stupid.

Where did ANYONE say, especially myself, that black people haven't had to experience racism?

I'm sorry Geeblock, but admit you just made that up or quote me or ANYONE on this board that has said that. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Slavery and racism aren't exactly the same as I think that is the disconnect. 

You are combining the two.

I also think you are being too general about slavery and religion in the Constitution. The founding fathers were all over the place faith wise, but all agreed in some sort of higher power. See Jeffersons Bible as one example. 

 If you have to condemn religion for slavery you must also acknowledge it had a big hand in its defeat here. The anti-slavery movement of the 19th century was mostly driven by Christians and people from the north. 

I get what you are saying, I think, but you are just combining a lot and making broad generalizations.

Technically I never mentioned slavery. That was cbsfan and jmog

posted by jmog

I didn't say no one alive has been affected by racism or Jim Crowe laws. So before you call someone else stupid, actually read what they typed.

Well if you actually read my post i never said slavery. I said religion was used to say black people were subhuman and inferior. 

My whole comment while once again hijacked by something that wasn’t the point was based on Justin’s comment that he wanted to be governed by god and not man. My point was that it is impossible because man will always and  have have always interpreted his will for their own purposes and control, on top of that  man is imperfect. It really had nothing to do with slavery or racism that was just an example, I could have used many others 

posted by geeblock

My whole comment while once again hijacked by something that wasn’t the point was based on Justin’s comment that he wanted to be governed by god and not man. My point was that it is impossible because man will always and  have have always interpreted his will for their own purposes and control, on top of that  man is imperfect. It really had nothing to do with slavery or racism that was just an example, I could have used many others 

Care to admit you just made up the part about someone saying black people don’t experience racism, or however dumb way you said it?

posted by jmog

Care to admit you just made up the part about someone saying black people don’t experience racism, or however dumb way you said it?

If you will admit that saying s”no one was alive during slavery” is almost never a good point to make during any ar

posted by geeblock

If you will admit that saying s”no one was alive during slavery” is almost never a good point to make during any ar

It is a salient point. Whether you like it is another point, altogether.

posted by justincredible

Yeah, that's enough of this conversation for me. Enjoy your day. 

See what happens when you take Justin's name in vain?!

posted by jmog

Care to admit you just made up the part about someone saying black people don’t experience racism, or however dumb way you said it?

When yiu say slavery hasn’t affected you at all that that is basically what you are saying. That slavery has no link to Jim Crow or other laws that did affect my life and it simply isn’t true. Half the country wanted to keep slavery. Changing the law didn’t change how people felt clearly. It is one of those statements while I’m sure you can find a way to defend it, it just never sounds very smart to me.  But I’m not going to argue about it. This seems to be a very strong tenet of yours which isn’t likely to change. Have a good night . 

posted by geeblock

If you will admit that saying s”no one was alive during slavery” is almost never a good point to make during any ar

Didn’t think you’d admit to lying.

I made a valid point even if you don’t like it.

You made shit up to make it look like I said something racist that was never said by ANYONE (even the far right wingers) on this board.

Be a better person and admit you made 💩 up to play the race card.

posted by geeblock

When yiu say slavery hasn’t affected you at all that that is basically what you are saying. That slavery has no link to Jim Crow or other laws that did affect my life and it simply isn’t true. Half the country wanted to keep slavery. Changing the law didn’t change how people felt clearly. It is one of those statements while I’m sure you can find a way to defend it, it just never sounds very smart to me.  But I’m not going to argue about it. This seems to be a very strong tenet of yours which isn’t likely to change. Have a good night . 

You can’t read 100 things into something that wasn’t actually said, it makes you look stupid.

Admit you made shit up or stop yapping.  You played the race card and people, not just me, called you out on it. 

posted by geeblock

When yiu say slavery hasn’t affected you at all that that is basically what you are saying. That slavery has no link to Jim Crow or other laws that did affect my life and it simply isn’t true. Half the country wanted to keep slavery. Changing the law didn’t change how people felt clearly. It is one of those statements while I’m sure you can find a way to defend it, it just never sounds very smart to me.  But I’m not going to argue about it. This seems to be a very strong tenet of yours which isn’t likely to change. Have a good night . 

You lie about what people said yet try to play the victim and blame others.

Grow up.

I think it's fair to realize that everybody goes through, actually experiences, some sort of -ism in our lives. It's how we deal with/prioritize it in our lives that defines who we are. Some people just don't have the tools to deal with it very well. Some people do. 

I choose to not let it hang me up because there comes a time in life when you realize that you actually have the choice to move along, without dragging that shit with you. 

Next topic!

"I promise slavery has not affected you at all, just like it hasn’t anyone who is alive right now."

This is a low brow statement that is used for a specific purpose and I disagree with it as do most people.  I understand the audience here and the argument you will use to justify the statement, even tho you admit (jim crow) otherwise.  so yes next topic

posted by geeblock

"I promise slavery has not affected you at all, just like it hasn’t anyone who is alive right now."

This is a low brow statement that is used for a specific purpose and I disagree with it as do most people.  I understand the audience here and the argument you will use to justify the statement, even tho you admit (jim crow) otherwise.  so yes next topic

So now stating facts is “low brow”?

You made up a statement that was never said, pulling the race card to make someone look/sound racist and you got called out on it. Now you just want to move on.

You admit you made BS up and we can move on. You said something that NO ONE said.

Even PTown called you out on it in a much longer worded fashion. 

I'm sorry your pussy hurts, geeblock. But most of us won't don't or wont automatically feel sorry for you because shitty things happen to everybody all the time and always will. Nobody goes through the act of living  unscathed. That is one thing we all have in common.

Maybe if you could post without referring to your racial grievances, real or perceived, all the fucking time, there would be less friction. 

Ill Try to say it slower..

1. I never mentioned slavery or that it affected my life. Please go back and actually read my posts.  They never mention slavery, they never mention my life.

2. Posters jumped in and brought up slavery and said it never affected my life.  I have no idea why they did that.  The conversation was about being governed by god or man and the relationship with god/government and government using religion for their own purposes.  I said religion was often used for control or to oppress other groups and mentioned black people.  Never said slavery, never said i was talking about myself or anything that was happening or ever happened to me.

3.  Once it was brought up by others not me, i did wonder why it was brought up because it clearly didnt apply to the conversation and was actually never said by me.  So then I responded that the only reason it must have been brought up was to say that the lingering racism and effects of racism didnt have an effect on my life in some ways. So I mentioned a few ways that it did.  I never asked for anyone to feel sorry for me but tried to educate the relationship between slavery and years of oppression that followed.

4. You guys must have been just sitting on the 'no one alive has been affected by slavery' schtick and waiting for a chance to talk to a black person and bring it out, but not once did I mention slavery, not once was i talking about how slavery effected my life or anything even close.  I even clarified it several times that other examples like the crusades or manifest destiny would also apply.  Never played the race card , never brought up slavery, never brought up my life.  I did respond that I think that the statement is "low brow"  meaning very unsophisticated which it is.  Im sorry if you guys are that fragile and the conversation hurt your feelings.  Jesus Christ